SafeSurfer wrote: » Thank you for your points above and for the advice to “read the interview properly” Something which was difficult to do because the interview was in fact a television interview on Today Tonight, but of course you knew that and didn’t just “read” the short excerpts from the interview and then suggest I hadn’t “read” it properly. Your first point is inaccurate. What the good priest actually said when asked about policing was: Brian Farrell: Outside of the political crime area does the catholic community make use of the RUC? Fr. Denis Faul: oh yes they certainly make use of them outside the political crime area and they are probably quite an efficient police force in regard to traffic offences, burglaries, non political robberies, children, drugs and so on Certainty they go to them immediately. Nowhere in the interview does Fr. Faul mention a call for “all republican prisoners” to be released. He says “These people (the provos) hold the catholic community in terror. And again later: “They hold the catholic community in absolute terror” Asked if the PIRA were comparable to the mafia he says: “Very much a mafia situation indeed, in addition to the murders that’s going on you have robbery, blackmail and extortion...,,,,hijacking of cars, the taking over of houses.
FrancieBrady wrote: » And we know Faul had a bitter falling out with SF. His 'individual' opinion is no more reliable than yours or mine.
SafeSurfer wrote: » You keep telling yourself that Francie. Only the opinions of Sinn Fein fans matter.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Tbf it is valid info.....as someone with a personal grudge/dislike may find it difficult to arrive at a objective viewpoint and their view may be partisan?
SafeSurfer wrote: » That would be fair comment until we see all views other than the Sinn Fein narrative being dismissed as “partisan”, from renowned journalists and historians to the Independent Monitoring Commission. When it suits of course.
SafeSurfer wrote: » Thank you for your points above and for the advice to “read the interview properly” Something which was difficult to do because the interview was in fact a television interview on Today Tonight, but of course you knew that and didn’t just “read” the short excerpts from the interview and then suggest I hadn’t “read” it properly.
What the good priest actually said when asked about policing was: Brian Farrell: Outside of the political crime area does the catholic community make use of the RUC?
Asked if the PIRA were comparable to the mafia he says: “Very much a mafia situation indeed, in addition to the murders that’s going on you have robbery, blackmail and extortion...,,,,hijacking of cars, the taking over of houses.
jm08 wrote: » Well, I have listened to it and I still don't think you have listened to the whole interview (which was in 1984 - after the hunger strikes and before the collapse of the Anglo-Irish Agreement). Fr Faul's point was that mothers were coming to him and asking him to do something because their children were being enticed into the PIRA because the RUC/Security forces were intimidating them and holding them up. He said that the British Government needed to actually support nationalists and provide neutral security and safety. He said he had made 1500 representations to the RUC and nothing was done about any of his complaints. He said that anyone up to the age of 25 should be released from prison because they were unlikely to offend again. When Fr Faul gave that interview, there must have been some hope of a compromise with the Anglo-Irish Agreement. Unionists rejected it so that hope was crushed for nationalists. That might have been the first thing he said, but he did say that nationalists were being picked up, intimidated and held for hours by the security forces. If the British Gov. sorted that out, his solution might have worked. But it didn't. Yes, he said the PIRA threatened them if they thought to report them to the RUC/Security forces. The message I got from that interview was: 1. Catholics had no one to turn to for safety, so they were stuck with the PIRA. 2. Fr Faul thought that if the British Gov. listened to what he was advising them to do (such as release prisoners etc), young men & women would not be enticed into the PIRA. 3. Obviously, with the collapse of the Anglo-Irish Agreement, the catholics were left on their own again.
jm08 wrote: » three people who have not been found out of 16 ... the PIRA have tried to locate the bodies
Junkyard Tom wrote: » There are bodies all over West Cork that were buried there by the 'good old' IRA when they were shooting and killing the antecedents of the RUC/UDR and people who colluded/informed. There was an older Unionist woman who lived near Macroom whose body was even dug up and moved to prevent it from being retrieved by loved-ones after the war of Independence was over. But they were the good IRA and the PIRA were bad IRA.
Jinglejangle69 wrote: » Same people back then thought it was OK to bury bodies as the same people nowadays that think it's OK to bury bodies. I like to class myself as a person who doesn't think its OK. What about you?
Junkyard Tom wrote: » I think it's an awful thing to do - killing people is bad enough without denying their loved-ones a funeral.
Jinglejangle69 wrote: » Do you agree PIRA are an awful organisation?
SafeSurfer wrote: » Did you hear him calling for the “release of all republican prisoners” as stated in your earlier post?
Junkyard Tom wrote: » The PIRA no longer exist. As for the PIRA, I wouldn't blame young people who joined them to fight back, I'd blame them for what they did as individuals while they were in the IRA alright. Out of interest, if you had been living in the Bogside or West Belfast in 1969, 1970, 1971 and watched your people being murdered by the RUC/British Army what would you have done?
jm08 wrote: » What he said was to ''begin releases from the prisons'' as a solution. (The second was to do something about the judiciary). Brian Farrell then interjected and said that ''obviously, the British authorities see all Provos as the same kind of people and they would be afraid of letting some out.'' Fr Faul then went onto say that there would be no harm releasing anyone who was picked up at 16 or 17 years of age and were serving life sentences because they acted as look-outs and probably did not know what was going on. He advocated that both loyalist and republican prisoners & women should be released. He said members of the ''Official Group'' should be released and that there are many prisoners in Long Kesh who have totally turned away from violence, that there are prisoners in Long Kesh where the means of how they were put there are questionable in terms of blackmail, torture, chicacory and roguery in the interrogation centres and the courts. He said that if a lot of these prisoners were released you would find that a lot of the support for the Provos would stop. He goes onto say that there are about 50,000 people who are relatives and friends of these prisoners who are the mainstay of Provo support and are the ones who are marching, etc. So, to sum up, he did advocate for most if not all prisoners to be released. The issue was that the British Goverment needed to do their bit by improving the justice system for nationalists. The section that he talks about this starts about 5 mins in.https://www.rte.ie/archives/2019/1004/1081089-father-denis-faul/ The rules of engagement with the PIRA by the nationalist community was that they showed no mercy to informers or spies. If they stuck to those rules, they were ok with them. Of course this meant that the British Security Forces tried to use various means to force such information out of the nationalist community.
Bonniedog wrote: » They should have stayed in their beds, because it was all for nothing.
Junkyard Tom wrote: » You could probably say that about anyone who got involved.
Bonniedog wrote: » Especially when your side surrendered and did not achieve its objectives, would you not agree?
jm08 wrote: » The rules of engagement with the PIRA by the nationalist community was that they showed no mercy to informers or spies. If they stuck to those rules, they were ok with them. Of course this meant that the British Security Forces tried to use various means to force such information out of the nationalist community.
nigeldaniel wrote: » Sf don't do irony, do they? As long as everyone agrees with them it is fine but if someone does not, they... have the gall to start on about trolling.
Superfoods wrote: » Bulls**t. That's the new rosy version that Sinn Fein and a few of you on here want to tell us. Oh they only went after informers, apart from that they provided a friendly neighbourhood service People got beating for any sort of stepping out of line.https://www.irishtimes.com/news/paramilitaries-step-up-violence-of-punishment-attacks-1.285012At around 7 p.m. a gang of men forced their way into a house in Brewster Court and attacked a 19-year-old youth. They smashed his leg in several places with an iron bar and also struck him with considerable force on the arms and body. The youth suffered severe chest injuries and one of his lungs collapsed. His recovery will take a long time and he is likely to be permanently handicapped.Police and medical sources say the paramilitaries are well aware that the type of injury inflicted by weapons such as metal bars, pickaxes, hammers and clubs - sometimes studded with nails - are significantly worse than injuries caused by hand guns. That's the level of scumbag the PIRA......anyone defending that needs to really look at themselves. All of course protected by your local friendly Sinn Fein politician. Yes "Up da Ra" Sinn Fein "Up da RA"
jm08 wrote: » He called for the release of republican prisoners. He didn't actually use the word ''all''. Enjoy your little internet victory on the use of one word, but certainly with the ''all'' does not mean what you are trying to claim.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Tbh i struggle to think taking out billy wright was a bad mornings work or unjustified
jm08 wrote: » If you had actually bothered to read that article you might have noticed that: 1) the PIRA were not mentioned once and 2) they say it is dissident republicans. I asked you before, but you didn't answer. Do you understand that there are dissident republicans who may have been in the PIRA in the past but do not support the Peace Process? From that article, the republicans seem to be keeping law and order but the loyalists are drug dealers and criminals and seem to be a much larger problem.
SafeSurfer wrote: » Thank you for finally admitting that. Words are important. Even one word can change a yes into a no. I am not being pedantic, but you patronisingly corrected me with incorrect information. Advising me to “Read properly” an interview which you hadn’t bothered to listen to until you were corrected. So now that we have cleared that up are you still arguing that Fr. Faul didn’t believe his community was living in fear? That they turned to the PIRA rather than the police because were afraid to go to the police, whom Fr. Faul says they would go to “immediately” in relation to all but political crimes?
