Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » Ok I'll get my daughter to tell her friend what you said. Everything's going to be fine now!
Lash_Alert wrote: » Well, i'd like to think your daughter and her friend are smart enough to be aware of the current rules. If you suspect they aren't which i guess from your comment you do, then you have a responsibility to tell them the rules.
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » Ok, you got me, I'm not biting any more, Good night.
mcsean2163 wrote: » The bank bailout cost €41.3 billion.https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/bank-bail-out-estimated-to-have-cost-state-41-7bn-says-comptroller-1.4035332?mode=amp Unemployment, public sector wages etc. were the big costs or circa €130 billion. We won't get another €130 billion this time I think, so what happens next year? What happens if the schools don't open?https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-30994285.html
while other countries lifted restrictions from April, Sweden has left almost all measures in place, despite registering a rapid drop in the number of cases from over 150 cases per 100,000 people per fortnight in early July to about 30 on Friday. “We try to put measures in place that are sustainable over time, instead of jumping from extremely high level of measures to no levels at all,” Tegnell told the Observer. “Lifting and closing things is really detrimental to trust and will also have a lot more negative effects than keeping some kind of level of measures all the time. Opening and closing schools, for example, would be disastrous.”
Tegnell also criticised the recent decisions of countries such as the UK and Norway to reimpose quarantine restrictions or reinstate advice not to travel after seeing upticks in infection. The scale of the drop would indicate an immunity in the Swedish population of “20%, 30%, maybe even slightly more in some areas”, he suggested, indicating that antibody tests in Sweden showing much lower rates were not telling the full story.
While Sweden’s steady-as-you-go strategy is starting to look more sensible as Denmark, Norway and Finland see a resurgence in cases, Tegnell said he now doubted if there would ever be a definitive answer over which strategy was best. “It will be very difficult to to achieve any kind of really clear-cut answer as to what was right and what was wrong,” he said. “I think we’re talking years into the future before we can get any kind of consensus on how to deal with this in the best possible way.”
Cupatae wrote: » How ye all that were supporting idea that Ireland follow Sweden feeling now knowing ye were completely and utterly wrong ?
Bit cynical wrote: » I don't think anyone has suggested we copy Sweden exactly but the basic facts would suggest that Sweden has done reasonably well and better than the critics would have predicted. 1. Lower peak of daily deaths than Ireland. 2. Deaths per age group roughly the same as Ireland. 3. Less economic dislocation than Ireland. 4. Current rate of daily deaths about the same as Ireland. 5. Economically less damaged than the Eurozone on average. 6. No talk of schools not opening in September. 7. No regional shutdowns.8. Fewer indirect deaths due to lockdown.9. Greater level of immunity in the general population.
bb1234567 wrote: » Do you've any evidence to support that point? I have not seen any proof that there has as yet been any increase in deaths related to lockdown here, and if there were, that they were greater than Sweden's. Sweden is experiencing increase levels of excess deaths beyond what has been confirmed as those caused by COVID, Ireland is experiencing fewer excess deaths than the number of confirmed COVID deaths. So it would seem that the opposite is true at surface level.
Bit cynical wrote: » I don't think anyone has suggested we copy Sweden exactly but the basic facts would suggest that Sweden has done reasonably well and better than the critics would have predicted. It is not too long ago that someone posted a crowded tram in Stockholm and people were predicting carnage. That has not happened. 1. Lower peak of daily deaths than Ireland. 2. Deaths per age group roughly the same as Ireland. 3. Less economic dislocation than Ireland. 4. Current rate of daily deaths about the same as Ireland. 5. Economically less damaged than the Eurozone on average. 6. No talk of schools not opening in September. 7. No regional shutdowns. 8. Fewer indirect deaths due to lockdown. 9. Greater level of immunity in the general population.
Breezin wrote: » Back to Sweden, and Tegnell
Bit cynical wrote: » No and to be honest it is speculation on my part. The indirect deaths I would expect to see over the next couple of years rather than in the immediate period of the lockdown itself.
biko wrote: » Mad how the biggest failure of Scandinavia now lectures other countries.
tobefrank321 wrote: » Wrong? Sweden's new cases and deaths have declined hugely and while cases are going up slightly its nowhere near as steep as elsewhere in Europe. A large number of countries are just out of lockdown and may be heading back into lockdown. How is that "right"? Whether schools reopen or stay open and the impact on infections will be a huge test to see who got this right or wrong.
CalamariFritti wrote: » Why is he the biggest failure of Scandinavia? Way too early to draw conclusions but I will give Sweden that at least they had the balls to listen to science and rationale instead of just hitting the panic button over and over again. It even seems they come out fairly sane in all this. None of the armageddon predictions came true. Their fatality rates are similar to ours. Their restrictions seem on a much more sustainable and less intrusive level. Their numbers are trending down for a while. And by the look of it they had much more exposure to it so there is a good chance they won't see the same resurgences that others do. At the very least its way too early to judge.
gl0Rob wrote: » Can you provide source material for 5, 8 & 9? I believe they are very key points when looking at the outcome of either approach. I know Sweden didn’t exactly say immunity was a goal but none the less it’s important to compare. Economically as I understand it, they are having the worst year in their history since the Second World War.
bb1234567 wrote: » How can these two theories possibly not contradict one another. Number of deaths directly correlates with exposure levels from the outbreak. And so then Ireland likely had as high levels of infection as Sweden has,which you seem to think is high, and thus that makes the last of your points moot. Or else Sweden has lower levels than thought and more in line with the rest of Europe, which is generally consider to not be a high level of exposure, which also would make your last point moot.
PokeHerKing wrote: » Swedens reporting is a complete sham. Why do people think a virus would act one way in one country and another way in another country?? It spreads between people in close contact, it kills a portion of those infected. That's it. Doesn't matter if you're black, brown Swedish or Irish, that's what the virus does.
CalamariFritti wrote: » I think a lot of things come into it. In the Mumbay slums they found 57% had an immune reaction. More or less full COVID saturation you could say. And despite the awful hygienical and medical standards they had less than 0.02% fatality rate, but in the slums only 6.5% are over 65.
Bit cynical wrote: » 5 I will admit to being speculative on my part. But I will try to find information on screening programmes that were curtailed to a lesser extent in Sweden than Ireland. 9 is based on ICU numbers at peak which were far in excess of Ireland yet deaths were lower.https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0511/1137763-what-can-we-learn-from-swedens-covid-19-icu-figures/ This suggests that Sweden were dealing with higher levels of infection and therefore immunity while keeping deaths down. Their relatively low levels of testing hid fairly high levels of infection. 5. 8.6% for Sweden vs 12.1% Eurozone average.https://www.cnbc.com/2020/08/05/sweden-coronavirus-record-gdp-fall-still-outperformed-some-in-europe.html
gl0Rob wrote: » Thanks, my only reservation is that infection = immunity is an assumption that has yet to be fully proved I think. Next couple of months should make that clear
PokeHerKing wrote: » Swedens reporting is a complete sham. Why do people think a virus would act one way in one country and another way in another country?? It spreads between people in close contact, it kills a portion of those infected. That's it. Doesn't matter if you're black, brown Swedish or Irish, that's what the virus does. Similar to the States, the only metric to watch in countries is excess mortality. That's the true death toll of this pandemic. Politics and general reporting inadequacies can and will impact the "official stats".
