i_surge wrote: » Sure after losing 1 in 350 of its population. But it was early in the race and knuckled down as it was very serious, i'm thinking of Florida. Spain and Italy used hard policies to force a huge relative reduction in cases. Why are we so mediocre that we can't mimic what looks to be best practice?
greyday wrote: » The data about health after infection is only now starting to come out and it doesn't look good for some with permanent organ damage seemingly more common than expected.
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » Yes. Weren't the hospitals over run in new york? Not sure there is a best practise yet. Could be it will be Sweden.
Boggles wrote: » Because that figure is variable and if you let it rip through it will most certainly drop. If you let emergency medicine collapse, it won't just be old covid patients dying.
charlie14 wrote: » I did not say they were unemployed. I said that according to Bloomberg they were on furlough (temporary layoff from work) and as such were not included in unemployment figures. Bloomberg said that if those numbers were included, Sweden`s unemployment rate would be 17%. If you disagree with the Bloomberg analysis I suggest you take it up with Bloomberg.
Spiderman0081 wrote: » That’s what Bloomberg have got wrong. What they are referring to is a reduction in hours from what I understand. There is not much point in referring to or disagreeing with the story if the story is unfounded. Using Bloomberg’s numbers as a comparison for what Ireland v Sweden are experiencing is pointless if Bloomberg have misunderstood the temporary hour reductions.
ceadaoin. wrote: » Aside from lombardy, nowhere has had their medical system overwhelmed, not even New York City. We saw field hospitals sitting empty everywhere. The latest surges in the US in Arizona, Texas, Florida, and California did not cripple the healthcare system despite all the warnings and headlines that collapse was imminent. In fact you barely hear about those places anymore because cases are now declining or plateaued. They were seeing 10k new confirmed infections a day in some cases, and still managed.
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » ....Anyway the Swedish numbers are looking like they were correct.
greyday wrote: » Even if Swedens strategy proves correct, it would be naive to think others were wrong as Sweden has gambled while others have done what was advised by experts, there is no other way IMO to describe Swedens strategy other than a gamble, they did not know if herd immunity could be achieved but ploughed ahead regardless.
Bit cynical wrote: » Sweden is wrong, in your view, even if they are right, and other countries are right even if they are wrong?
greyday wrote: » Precisely, Sweden gambled while most others were prudent, hopefully Swedens gamble pay off and we all benefit.
Bit cynical wrote: » It is a bit to tautological for my liking, I'm afraid. Plus you are equating running with the crowd as being prudent. Politically safe, yes, but not necessarily prudent.
Bit cynical wrote: » It is a bit too tautological for my liking, I'm afraid. Plus you are equating running with the crowd as being prudent. Politically safe, yes, but not necessarily prudent. If Sweden prove correct, then thinking independently was the prudent thing to do.
i_surge wrote: » Can you address the points I made please? There are countries that did a great job in recovery from catastrophy or avoiding it almost completely...we should be copying them verbatim. Sweden is not a best case model, the same approach failed spectacularly in other regions.
Sure after losing 1 in 350 of its population. But it was early in the race and knuckled down as it was very serious, i'm thinking of Florida.
Spain and Italy used hard policies to force a huge relative reduction in cases. Why are we so mediocre that we can't mimic what looks to be best practice?
Sweden is not a best case model, the same approach failed spectacularly in other regions.
greyday wrote: » https://www.vox.com/2020/5/8/21251899/coronavirus-long-term-effects-symptomshttps://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/long-term-health-effects-covid-19https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/07/brain-fog-heart-damage-covid-19-s-lingering-problems-alarm-scientists
Ce he sin wrote: » But which numbers? Officially Sweden has had about 5,700 deaths. Looking at their deaths overall so far this year and taking 90,000 pa as a typical figure you'd expect about 52,500 deaths to July. The actual figure is about 59,200 which would suggest either that something else with high mortality has hit the country or that the official Covid 19 figures are considerably understated.https://www.statista.com/statistics/525353/sweden-number-of-deaths/
Bit cynical wrote: » It is a bit too tautological for my liking, I'm afraid.
Plus you are equating running with the crowd as being prudent. Politically safe, yes, but not necessarily prudent. If Sweden prove correct, then thinking independently was the prudent thing to do.
greyday wrote: » Nope, there was very little known about the virus when it hit Europe first and to an extent there is still little known, it was prudent to follow the overwhelming expert advise for any number of reasons
bb1234567 wrote: » Well every country has different definitions of overwhelmed. Overwhelmed as ni triage yeh basically just Lombardy and maybe Madrid. But hospitals in India and parts of South America have not been able to treat all COVID patients who presented in hospitals, surely that could be considered overwhelmed. ICU units are full across many parts of Texas too and some hospitals in texas at least have classified themselves as 'overwhelmed' by COVID.https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/04/us/texas-coronavirus-rio-grande-valley-starr-county.html Whether they are simply just **** hospitals routinely overwhelmed and the media are just focusing on it because it's COVID related or not, I don't know.
niallo27 wrote: » These are individual cases with long term being classified as 8 weeks. Any with actual proper studies.
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » So how could an expert give advice on something which very little was known about?
greyday wrote: » The virus is with us 6 months, evidence is emerging of long term health problems for some who contract it, we will know how bad it is in years to come.
niallo27 wrote: » Yes but long term is classified as 8 weeks. Not exactly what I would call long term, so would you agree we don't know the long term affects as of yet.
greyday wrote: » By studying previous viruses from the same family of viruses
and by paying attention to Chinas experience where a full lockdown brought it under control.
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » And how many vaccines are there for these other 7 corona viruses? Do these viruses also kill? Under control in China, really? So, we should follow the Chinese approach? That's going well for the students in Hong Kong or the Uighers.
theguzman wrote: » If Scientists can create a vaccine as it appears they are moving ever closer to doing then hopefully this research and medical field could also be used to get rid of the common cold which is caused by complex coronaviruses and rhinoviruses. I think we also need to start looking at genetic modification in the human field so that embryos are genetically modified to get rid of undesirable DNA traits, create a vast immunity to a whole host of diseases and to increase the IQ over all.
greyday wrote: » Lets stick with their approach to the virus, or even South Koreas, if there is no vaccine we then have a long term problem which will still not include allowing it to run riot through the population, we now have most resources in place to stop exponential growth which over the next few months we will learn if they are adequate or have to be tweaked.
