Masks

Seanergy wrote: »

Yes there is, look at the reduction in the number of cases when masks went on.

Your getting confused between co-relation and causation. Look at other countries where masks a are mandatory and you’ll see a rise in cases.

Next.

xhomelezz

Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote: »

But you hands and other parts of your body and clothing do. Using your logic there should be no need for full PPE in any circumstance. If medical experts agree that a PPE suit reduces transmission then you should be advocating for wearing PPE suits.

I'm sorry Kendrick Jolly Ibex, you complaining about me sending you silly GIFs, but ffs man look at what you keep posting.

Seanergy

joeguevara wrote: »

It’s explicit in it that the guidance is only to engage in sexual activity with your partner if you live in the same household.

"If you decide to be sexually active with someone living outside of your household, limit it to as few partners as possible, preferably one regular partner," the leaflet said.

Seanergy

Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote: »

Your getting confused between co-relation and causation. Look at other countries where masks a are mandatory and you’ll see a rise in cases.

Next.

Once again you are 100% wrong and attempting to deflect away from home truths. You have accused me of getting confused between co-relation and causation with regard to this graph so please explain yourself.

Here is the graph in question again. Discuss.

ps: I have clearly stated all along I do not and will not blame HCW's for bringing covid-19 into LTRC settings. Covid-19 was brought into LTRC settings because of poor HSE mask policy.

xhomelezz wrote:

This was just posted on reopening schools thread, have fun reading it..

Moronic to the bone! That person couldn't be a scientist. Even lacking common sense. Is this a Russian bot or a provocateur or something? If not then I'm really sorry for such a low IQ.
Cases are rising despite mask wearing but that moron is lacking a control group to compare the number against - how much would the case risen in the absence of mask wearing. Data from the control group cannot be gathered here of course simply because we wear masks right now. But it's possible to get a proxy data from other countries and you don't have to be a genius to see that there situation is much worse without masks - hence all experts recommend them - virtually all of them.

And of course cases are f*cking rising because they're rising globally and cases will be imported - but the worst is yet to come. Brazil, India, US, Mexico, Peru, Chile, Russia, South Africa - millions of reported cases, and more unreported. And we don't even know what's hiding in Africa and obscure Asian countries (Pakistan, Afghanistan etc). This is a ticking bomb.

So far Ireland is just continuing the first wave mostly domestically, because of course the virus was never eliminated, it's established in Ireland and it keeps reproducing and circulating.

Kids are the best carriers of the virus - they are either asymptomatic or have very mild usually gastrointestinal symptoms. They will spread it silently which is very important difficult to protect against - if someone coughs then it's obvious. If kids go to school you're basically mixing dozens of household in one class (plus much more in the school as a whole) and this will accelerate the spread of the virus to older age brackets rapidly, through kids bringing it home and then to the grannies. Again not a rocket science if you have basic general knowledge and you're not an idiot.

Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote:

I donâ€™t think it has been rebuffed.There is no correlation between masks and a reduction in the number of cases. Masks can reduce transmission but the chances of contracting this virus are extremely low and the chances of death are even lower. This is not the killer death virus we thought it could be. The vast majority of the population do not have the virus, less than 1%. So if nobody has the virus and if the point of wearing a mask is to prevent you from giving it to someone else, there is no point in wearing the mask if you donâ€™t have the virus which 99% of the population do not have. We know that 9/10 new â€œcasesâ€, since we donâ€™t talk about deaths anymore, are non communal i.e. from people in the same home where people donâ€™t wear masks anyway.

Link, studies, experts please.

moonage wrote: »

Apparently, by wearing a mask I'm taking some responsibility for your health.
In that case, next time I'm in the supermarket I'll look into your trolley and will remove junk food, booze, fags etc. I protect you!

Not really a relevant comparison.
A more relevant comparison would be with laws against driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs, and laws against smoking in enclosed public places.

odyssey06 wrote: »

The CDC disagree on masks and reduction in cases - they have seen the difference between US states with mask policies versus those without.

I don't know what you mean by 'killer death virus'. It's killed hundreds of thousands of people around the world. It's killed 1000+ people here and would have killed more but for a societal lockdown which cannot be sustained.

There is community tranmission still occurring in Ireland.
You don't know if you are in the % of the population who is infected right now.
Masks are about reducing the transmisson from that % to the rest.

Some people have died mostly old and with underlying issues but the vast majority have revived and will recover. If people want to live in fear and assume the worst that they have the virus then go ahead and wear a mask if if makes you feel better but make no mistake that it is just a placebo effect because in most cases it’s not required and you are still exposed to the virus unless you lace up in a full suit. The change in reporting from deaths to cases is just scare mongering - no mention of recovery rates or admissions. People can live in fear or maybe some want to drag out going back to work for a few weeks but please don’t enforce these hang ups on the rest of society who question the reality around them.

Look at countries with mandatory masks where there is an increase in cases.

Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote: »

Some people have died mostly old and with underlying issues but the vast majority have revived and will recover. If people want to live in fear and assume the worst that they have the virus then go ahead and wear a mask if if makes you feel better but make no mistake that it is just a placebo effect because in most cases it’s not required and you are still exposed to the virus unless you lace up in a full suit. The change in reporting from deaths to cases is just scare mongering - no mention of recovery rates or admissions. People can live in fear or maybe some want to drag out going back to work for a few weeks but please don’t enforce these hang ups on the rest of society who question the reality around them.

"Some people died."
That's how you dismiss the deaths of over a thousands people in this country?
That's the reality of the situation.
People dead.
People not able to attend funerals of those they care about.

You don't understand the concept of excess mortality.
You don't seem to place any value on the lives of people in our society vulnerable to this virus.
You don't understand the placebo effect.
You don't understand that masks are about protecting others.
You don't understand the reporting, as it has always listed cases and deaths.
Give me any date and I wil give you the reported case count in Ireland for that day.

xhomelezz

Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote: »

Some people have died mostly old and with underlying issues but the vast majority have revived and will recover. If people want to live in fear and assume the worst that they have the virus then go ahead and wear a mask if if makes you feel better but make no mistake that it is just a placebo effect because in most cases it’s not required and you are still exposed to the virus unless you lace up in a full suit. The change in reporting from deaths to cases is just scare mongering - no mention of recovery rates or admissions. People can live in fear or maybe some want to drag out going back to work for a few weeks but please don’t enforce these hang ups on the rest of society who question the reality around them.

I'm out of pictures..

Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote: »

Look at countries with mandatory masks where there is an increase in cases.

And see what exactly?

Look at Japan.
Their population is 125 million and they have less coronavirus deaths than we do with a population of 5 million.
What did they do we didn't?

They treated this as a virus with airborne transmission and wore masks accordingly.

Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote: »

Look at countries with mandatory masks where there is an increase in cases.

Link, studies, experts only. No crooks or snake-oil internet pseudo-experts.

What's your control group exactly? What would be their increase in the absence of mandated masks?

Fortunately I can do it for you - just look at the data for the same countries 3 months back when they had not mandated masks.

You're trolling.

railer201

xhomelezz wrote: »

I'm out of pictures..

.....but not a sense of humour - you just have to laugh at it.

odyssey06 wrote: »

And see what exactly?

Look at Japan.
Their population is 125 million and they have less coronavirus deaths than we do with a population of 5 million.
What did they do we didn't?

They treated this as a virus with airborne transmission and wore masks accordingly.

So can you say categorically that there is a correlation btw wearing masks and a reduction in cases?

Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote: »

So can you say categorically that there is a correlation btw wearing masks and a reduction in cases?

I am not the one saying it.
The CDC are.
That's why they updated their advice on wearing masks in enclosed public places.

robinph

McGiver wrote: »

Kids are the best carriers of the virus - they are either asymptomatic or have very mild usually gastrointestinal symptoms. They will spread it silently which is very important difficult to protect against - if someone coughs then it's obvious. If kids go to school you're basically mixing dozens of household in one class (plus much more in the school as a whole) and this will accelerate the spread of the virus to older age brackets rapidly, through kids bringing it home and then to the grannies. Again not a rocket science if you have basic general knowledge and you're not an idiot.

Are there cases where a school has been shown to be the link between multiple families being infected?

There is surely enough schools been open long enough globally now to have something to show this.

odyssey06 wrote: »

I am not the one saying it.
The CDC are.
That's why they updated their advice on wearing masks in enclosed public places.

Which CDC? have they said explicitly that there is a direct link btw wearing a mask a reduction in cases?

Kendrick Jolly Ibex wrote: »

Which CDC? have they said explicitly that there is a direct link btw wearing a mask a reduction in cases?

I'm not going to play this language game with you.
Stop ignoring the evidence and respond to the evidence that has been provided which contradicts you.

The CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

CDC reviewed the latest science and affirms that cloth face coverings are a critical tool in the fight against COVID-19 that could reduce the spread of the disease, particularly when used universally within communities. There is increasing evidence that cloth face coverings help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0714-americans-to-wear-masks.html

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

_Kaiser_

odyssey06 wrote: »

"Some people died."
That's how you dismiss the deaths of over a thousands people in this country?
That's the reality of the situation.
People dead.
People not able to attend funerals of those they care about.

You don't understand the concept of excess mortality.
You don't seem to place any value on the lives of people in our society vulnerable to this virus.
You don't understand the placebo effect.
You don't understand that masks are about protecting others.
You don't understand the reporting, as it has always listed cases and deaths.
Give me any date and I wil give you the reported case count in Ireland for that day.

The problem with your argument and many others here is that you're dealing in absolutes. It's a common problem in Internet debate these days but it's spilling increasingly into the real world.

In this case, with regards masks the attitude from people like yourself is "mask up or you will be the cause of deaths of others or yourself"

Neither is in fact the case. Yes some people WILL and have died (which is unfortunate but not unexpected), but the vast majority will not - which I keep having to point out is a GOOD THING because it seems that posters like yourself genuinely can't see the situation with a larger sense of perspective anymore.

Maybe it's because you're (all) so invested in your online position, maybe it's because you've been overwhelmed with so much information and negativity on this topic in the media that it's understandably hard to see anything else, but the the increasing "cases" count is a perfect illustration.. yes cases are going up, but that tells us nothing of the outcomes or recovery in the majority of those cases. I saw a news report a few weeks ago on RTE of an elderly woman leaving hospital following her recovery and it was genuinely great to see - her nurses and others were lined up clapping as she left. Why do we not see more of this?

A better, more realistic message here would be that there is a virus in the wild that may have serious - or regrettably fatal - consequences to a small percentage of the population. However, overall most people will not contract it, or if they do the effects will be temporary and not severe.
Everyone should therefore remain vigilant and take steps to protect themselves in-line with advice and their own risk assessment of vulnerability (with support from their GP if needed), and restrict their movements if they experience any symptoms until assessed.

If that was the approach taken, I think we'd find a lot less hysteria from both "sides" (because that's what this complex and evolving situation has been reduced to - you're with us or against us), less fear in the community, and a better position all round.

Again, people ARE going to die from this. It's unavoidable and regrettable most definitely, but it's also not realistic or practical to impose blanket disproportionate restrictions on the whole population to try to protect a small percentage of the most vulnerable (who would be better served by - as above - taking their own precautions anyway).

The reason that people are not following the advice is not because their "idiots" or "conspiracy theorists" or whatever other childish slurs have been levelled at them by some on this very thread alone. After all, most people do not WANT to become seriously ill or die, or see loved ones suffer. But they are looking at the situation from the perspective of their own health, the status in their community, their own needs to live their lives again in some sense of normality - and they are then doing what they feel appropriate.... and despite this, shops haven't become epicentres of virus breakouts, numbers requiring serious ICU care remain thankfully very low, and the overall death count is still well under 2000 in this country - which in the context of a potentially fatal pandemic is actually very low too.

As I said before, there is a real need for some to take a step back, look around at what's actually happening around them (rather than what they're reading online) and apply some perspective to this situation.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

The problem with your argument and many others here is that you're dealing in absolutes. It's a common problem in Internet debate these days but it's spilling increasingly into the real world.
In this case, with regards masks the attitude from people like yourself is "mask up or you will be the cause of deaths of others or yourself"
Neither is in fact the case.

Where did I write that?
You are having a debate with a strawman in your head.
Mask up or you could cause the deaths of others.
It is not that much to ask, in the scheme of things.

And don't respond with mentions of hysteria again in response to one of my posts without justifying it in some sort of form with a direct reference. You are arguing with scatter gun slogans.

Again, people ARE going to die from this. It's unavoidable and regrettable most definitely, but it's also not realistic or practical to impose blanket disproportionate restrictions on the whole population to try to protect a small percentage of the most vulnerable (who would be better served by - as above - taking their own precautions anyway).
As I said before, there is a real need for some to take a step back, look around at what's actually happening around them (rather than what they're reading online) and apply some perspective to this situation.

It's just a mask ffs. It's not a disproportionate response at all. It's entirely appropriate to our current phase of the pandemic.
The figures from Japan with less deaths than we have with our tiny population show that these are avoidable deaths.

odyssey06 wrote: »

I'm not going to play this language game with you.
Stop ignoring the evidence and respond to the evidence that has been provided which contradicts you.

Which CDC? The CDC:
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/prevent-getting-sick/cloth-face-cover.html

CDC reviewed the latest science and affirms that cloth face coverings are a critical tool in the fight against COVID-19 that could reduce the spread of the disease, particularly when used universally within communities. There is increasing evidence that cloth face coverings help prevent people who have COVID-19 from spreading the virus to others.
https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2020/p0714-americans-to-wear-masks.html

https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent

There is more than one CDC. I know a lot of Irish people wish they lived in the states but we also have the European CDC.

_Kaiser_

odyssey06 wrote: »

Where did I write that?
You are having a debate with a strawman in your head.
Mask up or you could cause the deaths of others.
It is not that much to ask, in the scheme of things.

It's a mask ffs. it's not a disproportionate response at all.
The figures from Japan with less deaths than we have with our tiny population show that these are avoidable deaths.

I wasn't just replying to you, but to others like you with the attitude you have displayed again

Fear driven, whatabout-what's happening-on-the-other-side-of-the-planet, and blind "mask up else" rhetoric.

We don't need masks. ICU numbers are extremely low. deaths are nil the last few days (as I type this today's numbers haven't been released yet but that again is part of the issue - daily dose of negativity.. how about "today x recovered" instead), and overall new cases are low in the context of much increased testing

Again, perspective

_Kaiser_

Complete side note, but is it just me or is Boards fooked yet again this weekend? Threads jumping back pages, errors etc? (on Touch and Desktop)

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Complete side note, but is it just me or is Boards fooked yet again this weekend? Threads jumping back pages, errors etc? (on Touch and Desktop)

Yeah it's in a heap. Hit F5 a lot and keep an eye on this thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=114209565#post114209565

Charles Babbage

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I wasn't just replying to you, but to others like you with the attitude you have displayed again

Fear driven, whatabout-what's happening-on-the-other-side-of-the-planet, and blind "mask up else" rhetoric.

We don't need masks. ICU numbers are extremely low. deaths are nil the last few days (as I type this today's numbers haven't been released yet but that again is part of the issue - daily dose of negativity.. how about "today x recovered" instead), and overall new cases are low in the context of much increased testing

Again, perspective

The issue is not the absolute numbers it is the doubling in the last week.
This is entirely the wrong direction. Given the time lag with Covid you cannot afford to be relaxed about going in the wrong direction.

Charles Babbage

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I wasn't just replying to you, but to others like you with the attitude you have displayed again

Fear driven, whatabout-what's happening-on-the-other-side-of-the-planet, and blind "mask up else" rhetoric.

We don't need masks. ICU numbers are extremely low. deaths are nil the last few days (as I type this today's numbers haven't been released yet but that again is part of the issue - daily dose of negativity.. how about "today x recovered" instead), and overall new cases are low in the context of much increased testing

Again, perspective

robinph wrote:

Are there cases where a school has been shown to be the link between multiple families being infected?

No - the schools have been closed!
What a surprise.

GT89

I heard that masks are now mandatory in parts of Spain OUTDOORS not just shops and public transport sounds like hell on earth I'm sure there's probably some on here that would support such a riddiculous policy