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How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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downthemiddle

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

You mustn't have gotten the chance to read this document yet. Section 2.4

Returning to school: Guidance on learning and school programmes for post primary school leaders and teachers

Schools should continue to timetable SPHE, CSPE and PE across all junior cycle year groups and RSE and PE at senior cycle. The benefits of these courses for the emotional, social and physical development of students are significant.

https://assets.gov.ie/81946/bdd8a450-5d8b-4211-a219-5d6102089df2.docx

I’m very aware of the emphasis on PE while there are three other classes in the hall.
What subjects do you suggest dropping?

average_runner

downthemiddle wrote: »

I’m very aware of the emphasis on PE while there are three other classes in the hall.
What subjects do you suggest dropping?

Can you not do it in the yard when not raining?
Our kids school said it be in the yard for majority of time

YellowBucket

antix80 wrote: »

Permit eu teachers. Ditch the irish lang requirement. Ditch the masters of education. And cut the dole.

Everything will click into place.

And there's plenty of grads besides all that .

That’s already the case in the secondary school, but in primary school Irish is one of the core subjects that a teacher has to deliver, so it makes it extremely difficult to do without having sufficient Irish.

Maybe you could have one teacher covering Irish as a specialist subject in a school, but it would require a total redrawing of how primary schools work and it’s a whole other debate about subject specialisation, which is way beyond the topic of the thread and would take a long time to implement as primary teachers are qualified to deliver the whole curriculum across all the subjects they are required to teach.

However, in the current configuration, you need to be able to teach Irish if you’re teaching in an Irish primary school as it’s just one of the key skills needed.

Secondary school, unless you’re teaching Irish, or in an Irish language medium school, you’ve no requirement to have proficiency in Irish anymore.

s1ippy

meeeeh wrote: »

Considering the stats around mortality for children I'm pretty sure their fear is more reflection of hysterical parents. Experts are suggesting schools should be back, schools around Europe are or will be back and you claim people sending kids back are willfully ignorant. I think we just understand statistics a bit better than those keeping kids away.

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-schools-and-covid-19
Your position indicates that either you haven't read about the challenges facing Irish schools: poor ventilation, insulation (yes you can have both be terrible at once somehow), running water access, space per classroom and a mad rush to leave by many who are in a position to do so, adding to the subbing crisis

Here's what the WHO requires for a safe return to education.
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-schools-and-covid-19

I actually think that some are making Covid worse than it is (and it is bad I'm not denying that) just to have an excuse not to do anything and to cocoon in their little world.

I can't be the first person to tell you that the virus is only after slowing down as a result of the measures we took, because it is the relevant response to nearly every single post you write. People on the Internet didn't make this virus worse, except maybe the anti-mask wallies on twitter. It's actually tragic that the cycles people losing their old lives go through almost follows the stages of grief to a t. You're the second stage.

Anyway I got email from school telling us that they will be able to implement social distancing measures in all classes and that they will see them at the end of August.

I wish them all the best, they are in an enviable position if that is the case.

timmy_mallet

s1ippy wrote: »

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-schools-and-covid-19
Your position indicates that either you haven't read about the challenges facing Irish schools: poor ventilation, insulation (yes you can have both be terrible at once somehow), running water access, space per classroom and a mad rush to leave by many who are in a position to do so, adding to the subbing crisis

Here's what the WHO requires for a safe return to education.
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-schools-and-covid-19

I can't be the first person to tell you that the virus is only after slowing down as a result of the measures we took, because it is the relevant response to nearly every single post you write. People on the Internet didn't make this virus worse, except maybe the anti-mask wallies on twitter. It's actually tragic that the cycles people losing their old lives go through almost follows the stages of grief to a t. You're the second stage.

I wish them all the best, they are in an enviable position if that is the case.

Heh! Perhaps you need to get yerself to stage 5, and realise that many people have accepted that they've to live alongside it.

khalessi

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Maybe we could set up some observation days at preschools for any anxious teachers. The pre schools have been open for a few weeks now. In order to maintain social distancing the teachers would have to be restricted to looking in through the window but I think it could be a valuable learning experience and help reduce anxiety.

What we would observe is smaller groups and more adults. I would be delighted if that was applied to primary school but the government have decided to ignore that. I love how reather than addressing problems it is easier to write the people off who see them as anxious.

Alrigghtythen

khalessi wrote: »

What we would observe is smaller groups and more adults. I would be delighted if that was applied to primary school but the government have decided to ignore that. I love how reather than addressing problems it is easier to write the people off who see them as anxious.

They are also in closer contact for longer hours and in contact with bodily fluids and carry out more personal care.

meeeeh

s1ippy wrote: »

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-schools-and-covid-19
Your position indicates that either you haven't read about the challenges facing Irish schools: poor ventilation, insulation (yes you can have both be terrible at once somehow), running water access, space per classroom and a mad rush to leave by many who are in a position to do so, adding to the subbing crisis

Here's what the WHO requires for a safe return to education.
https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-schools-and-covid-19

I can't be the first person to tell you that the virus is only after slowing down as a result of the measures we took, because it is the relevant response to nearly every single post you write. People on the Internet didn't make this virus worse, except maybe the anti-mask wallies on twitter. It's actually tragic that the cycles people losing their old lives go through almost follows the stages of grief to a t. You're the second stage.

So Irish schools are uniqley unique and have to face totally different challenges than any other school opening with WHO advice you linked.

And as a second part of a reply you manage to accuse me of being mask/Corona denier. If you are a teacher it's actually worrying how intolerant you are of anyone who doesn't seem to be as orthodox about safety measures and has slightly different opinion. I followed all advice given, I did not break any rules neither I don't intend to. However I also live in real world and realise that sometimes you have to weigh up the negatives and positives of every measure. At the moment prevalent attitude is that schools can reopen and that for example hospitals have to treat other patients because the damage of not doing it could be higher than from Covid.

Hysteria can cause a lot of damage, maybe you should try breathing slowly and approach tasks needed to reopen the schools one by one. My kids are lucky to be in school that's proactive. It makes huge difference for their future.

BTW diagnosing stages of grief over the Internet on the basis of few posts is whacky and a domain of charlatans. I'm a rational person and will assume that you just lost your temper and found the most convenient insult and don't actually believe you can do that.

iamwhoiam

While they are not completely comparable I think it’s encouraging that no clusters appeared in summer camps or from playgrounds etc .
I think NPHET probably allowed summer camps to assses how the kids mixing would go .
Playgrounds are jam packed now for many weeks and children mixing and playing in very close proximity . No one is spraying down the equipment and yet no outbreak among young children thankfully
Summer camps have been going for weeks and the weather was quite wet at times so they did indoor art and games etc with no distancing for younger kids
It’s encouraging at least to know it might not be a huge disaster among the junior cycle

Boggles

iamwhoiam wrote: »

While they are not completely comparable I think it’s encouraging that no clusters appeared in summer camps or from playgrounds etc .
I think NPHET probably allowed summer camps to assses how the kids mixing would go .
Playgrounds are jam packed now for many weeks and children mixing and playing in very close proximity . No one is spraying down the equipment and yet no outbreak among young children thankfully
Summer camps have been going for weeks and the weather was quite wet at times so they did indoor art and games etc with no distancing for younger kids
It’s encouraging at least to know it might not be a huge disaster among the junior cycle

With minuscule instances of the virus in the community.

They are focused on opening schools, not keeping them open.

We need to be able to keep them open when instances of unknown community spread increases like they appear to be now.

meeeeh

Boggles wrote: »

With minuscule instances of the virus in the community.

They are focused on opening schools, not keeping them open.

We need to be able to keep them open when instances of unknown community spread increases like they appear to be now.

Nobody can guarantee schools will manage to stay open. What will probably happen in the second outbreak is that they won't be closed as quickly especially for younger kids and other distancing measures will be implemented first.

iamwhoiam

Boggles wrote: »

With minuscule instances of the virus in the community.

They are focused on opening schools, not keeping them open.

We need to be able to keep them open when instances of unknown community spread increases like they appear to be now.

Eh, yes , I am well aware of that .

Alrigghtythen

meeeeh wrote: »

Nobody can guarantee schools will manage to stay open. What will probably happen in the second outbreak is that they won't be closed as quickly especially for younger kids and other distancing measures will be implemented first.

There may be localised closures and the measures taken by that individual school reviewed. Summer holidays next year could be staggered by province

meeeeh

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

There may be localised closures and the measures taken by that individual school reviewed. Summer holidays next year could be staggered by province

That and classes or whole schools self isolating depending the need.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

There may be localised closures and the measures taken by that individual school reviewed. Summer holidays next year could be staggered by province

State exams will hopefully happen in June next year so it's unlikely the summer holidays will change from their standardised form.

I presume if a school closes locally, they switch to online learning and they still count as school/working days.

average_runner

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

There may be localised closures and the measures taken by that individual school reviewed. Summer holidays next year could be staggered by province

Holidays wont be staggered. People have already booked next year hols

drunkmonkey

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Summer holidays next year could be staggered by province

Naughty counties can start taking there's in November. It's a greart idea but there will be blood on the streets.

drunkmonkey

average_runner wrote: »

Holidays wont be staggered. People have already booked next year hols

Foreign?, with the WHO coming out and saying this is going to last decades we better get used to our weather and enjoy it in all seasons.
I've no sympathy for anyone booking next year's sun holiday if they loose their money, pandemic is worse now than it was in January.

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

There may be localised closures and the measures taken by that individual school reviewed. Summer holidays next year could be staggered by province

Why would they be staggered? School forced to close, work moves online. School reopens, back to physical class. Things like state exams, be it actual written exams or even predicted grades means everyone has to finish at the same time to.allow these to run smoothly.

Alrigghtythen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Why would they be staggered? School forced to close, work moves online. School reopens, back to physical class. Things like state exams, be it actual written exams or even predicted grades means everyone has to finish at the same time to.allow these to run smoothly.

So the movement of people throughout the entire country is reduced. Every one heading off for a week in killarney at the same time isnt ideal.

https://www.expatica.com/nl/education/children-education/school-holidays-in-the-netherlands-70515/

School holidays in the Netherlands are set by the Ministry of Education Culture and Science. All Dutch schools have five holidays throughout the year. These are autumn (one week), Christmas (two weeks), spring (one week), May (one week, usually spread across April/May) and summer (six weeks).

The Christmas and May holidays are the same across the country, but the other holidays are staggered across three regions: north, central and south. This helps authorities better manage the holiday traffic. The regions are divided as follows:

North region: Drenthe, Flevoland (all municipalities except Zeewolde), Friesland, Groningen, North Holland, Overijssel, Utrecht (only Eemnes and Abcoude)

Central region: Flevoland (only Zeewolde), North Brabant (Werkendam except the Hank and Dussen cores, and Woudrichem), Utrecht (all municipalities except Eemnes and Abcoude), South Holland

South region: Limburg, North Brabant (all municipalities except Woudrichem and the nuclei of Sleeuwijk, Nieuwendijk, and Werkendam in the municipality of Werkendam), Zeeland

The municipalities in the province of Gelderland are split across the three regions. You can see a breakdown of these on the Dutch government website.

wirelessdude01

You do realise as it also stood there are staggered holidays anyway. Secondary finish, then, the LCs finish, then primary. All staggered.

Do you suggest staggered holidays by alphabetical order?

deiseindublin

I'm still waiting for the list of subjects to be dropped in September? What does one do with all the year 6, 3, and 2 that have picked the subject option and have lots of the course done? Tough luck, everyone in to Geography?

Alrigghtythen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

You do realise as it also stood there are staggered holidays anyway. Secondary finish, then, the LCs finish, then primary. All staggered.

Do you suggest staggered holidays by alphabetical order?

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

There may be localised closures and the measures taken by that individual school reviewed. Summer holidays next year could be staggered by province

By province, like i said.

jimmytwotimes 2013

Currently more Dublin accents on the streets in Dingle than local. If they were going to stagger holidays they should have done it before now.

People descending on holiday locations could be stopped by county lockdowns.

The staggering of holidays impacts state exams, possible predictive grading, offering of college places etc

The school year was standardised to avoid these issues.

If a school closes education continues in an online form. If we want to delay holidays on a local level, a closure would see no online support as you're not counting those days as days worked so nothing would get done in certain areas.

There will, probably, be local closures but they will follow online work and keep up with the standardised calendar. It's not ideal but staggering holidays could get very messy.

Alrigghtythen

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Foreign?, with the WHO coming out and saying this is going to last decades we better get used to our weather and enjoy it in all seasons.
I've no sympathy for anyone booking next year's sun holiday if they loose their money, pandemic is worse now than it was in January.

Lol it's gas that people are reluctant to take measures and get on with opening the schools and yet are booking foreign holidays:)

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

By province, like i said.

So a family that lives on the Rossie side of Athlone can't go on holidays with their cousins that live on the Westmeath side?

Alrigghtythen

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So a family that lives on the Rossie side of Athlone can't go on holidays with their cousins that live on the Westmeath side?

Yes just like the children in Utrecht (only Eemnes and Abcoude) cant go on holidays with the cousins from Utrecht (all municipalities except Eemnes and Abcoude)

wirelessdude01

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Currently more Dublin accents on the streets in Dingle than local. If they were going to stagger holidays they should have done it before now.

People descending on holiday locations could be stopped by county lockdowns.

The staggering of holidays impacts state exams, possible predictive grading, offering of college places etc

The school year was standardised to avoid these issues.

If a school closes education continues in an online form. If we want to delay holidays on a local level, a closure would see no online support as you're not counting those days as days worked so nothing would get done in certain areas.

There will, probably, be local closures but they will follow online work and keep up with the standardised calendar. It's not ideal but staggering holidays could get very messy.

It's a non-runner here. Too much work for the government so will never happen. Idea has some merit though.

On staycations, I expect a lot of disruption this year with kids missing random weeks here and there thanks to the wisdom of the government decision to only allow the tax break staycations to occur after September 1st. Lots of children heading off when school is back.

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Yes just like the children in Utrecht (only Eemnes and Abcoude) cant go on holidays with the cousins from Utrecht (all municipalities except Eemnes and Abcoude)

Can I ask what occurs if they just take the kids out anyway outside of these 'windows'?

wirelessdude01

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Yes just like the children in Utrecht (only Eemnes and Abcoude) cant go on holidays with the cousins from Utrecht (all municipalities except Eemnes and Abcoude)

Can I ask what occurs if they just take the kids out anyway outside of these 'windows'?