Spiderman0081 wrote: » Sorry can’t post url so here’s the copied article dated 13 April on RTÉ. “The Minister for Health has said Ireland's approach to tackling Covid-19 is the "right strategy" that is "going to save lives". Simon Harris said it is important for the Irish people, who are hurting and who are making sacrifices, to know this. Minister Harris cited modelling done by Professor Philip Nolan, which projected that this coming Sunday alone, there would have been 120,000 new cases of the virus, if no restrictive measures had been introduced. If just partial mitigation had been done, by the end of May, the modelling suggested we would see around 70,000 new cases on one day.”
joeguevara wrote: » Luckily we didn’t do partial mitigation then.
Spiderman0081 wrote: » I’ll presume and hope that you are being sarcastic :-)
Spiderman0081 wrote: » I live in Stockholm. Have done with 10 years now and have never felt so lucky to live here as I do now. This February you could not convince me otherwise that Sweden’s strategy would be nothing other than a complete disaster. I was quietly terrified to be honest that they we’re not following the lockdown strategies of our European neighbors. I even bought yeast, powdered mash and tinned mushrooms for Christ’s sake. But then I started to read, and listen. Not to Anders Tegnell or the hysteria on RTÉ. I started going through the data. So much data. The fact of the matter is that this virus is a real danger for the elderly, especially with underlying conditions. But, the stress that a lockdown can cause on a family is obvious. I have a large family with lots of sisters, brothers and cousins. I have seen the change in their way of thinking, the worry they have and most unfortunately the acceptance they have of what the government in Ireland has directed of them. Closing schools for the young, in my opinion is one of the most harmful things you can do to a country. Even with all the death that has been caused by this virus. I say that having two young children of my own who go to school in Stockholm, where the virus is widespread. An unfortunate but very important point to make is that many of the people who work in Sweden’s care homes are immigrants with different cultures to that of the Swedish and who have often a poor grasp of the Swedish language. Unlike the Swedes, they like to hang out with family and friends on a regular basis. These workers unfortunately did not understand early on the importance of social distancing when they returned home from work. When they returned to work they were never tested for the virus thanks to the slow response from the government. This was a recipe for disaster, both for the people they cared for at work and their elderly family members at home. Anders Tegnell, FHM and the Swedish government have admitted time and time again that they did not protect their elderly. They are aware of this fact. My boss has had covid, my friends wife has had covid, 3 of my girlfriends colleagues at work have had covid. None of them, including myself want a lockdown like Ireland. Not even before they found out they had covid. Someone posted earlier that 0,8% of people who have contracted the virus in Sweden, aged 0-70 have died. In Stockholm, 0.1% of people aged 0-69 have died. This is a fact. I think wearing a mask out in the open is ridiculous. I think wearing a mask on a crowded bus makes sense. I think trying to cancel the Croaigh Patrick climb because of this virus is borderline insanity. When you walk the streets of Stockholm, there are elderly everywhere. Buying flowers or just sitting in the park. I have often asked them if they are concerned about catching the virus. Nearly every one of them said yes. But not not one of those people I asked, wanted to be stuck at home, alone, worrying about dying from a virus. This is what Tegnell, Johan Giesecke and the Swedish government have talked about. There is a delicate line between caring for the health of the people and dictating to someone what is best for their own good. We may compare numbers all day but it won’t help change anyone’s mind who thought not going for a walk on an empty beach was a bad idea because Irish politicians said so. The long term effects of closing a country down are yet to be seen but we can all take a wild guess that’s it’s not going to be good. Not to mention the unimaginable debt Ireland recently signed up to in the recent covid eu deal. People actually don’t or want to grasp the debt trap that is. Sweden have always said that they hope their strategy will work out in the long run but they have never to my knowledge said that they know for a fact what is the right thing to do. They are reacting to the facts, not the hysteria. They admit they let down the elderly. The number of cases is still very high but mainly among young people. Testing is widespread. Grandparents who are willing to take the risk of seeing their grandchildren are allowed do so. People go to work. Every second table at McDonald’s is closed off. Their are signs everywhere about keeping your distance. Everybody is washing their hands. No matter what happens in Ireland, the government will take credit only for the positives and admit none of the negatives. I hope more and more people realize this. If the virus magically disappears it’s because everyone listened to the advice. If the cases increase, it’s because people aren’t doing what their told. I hope to god no healthy person on here is actually considering taking a vaccine if it ever appears. I have had covid. I may get it again. The science is still out on that. But I honestly can’t think of any horrible situation that would make me resort to sticking that needle in my arm. Just to remind everyone reading this of the scare mongering that was forced upon the Irish people, I will link an article. Now try to work out, in relation to population how many cases their should have been on one day in Sweden because of no lockdowns on the mentioned days. What a joke.
john4321 wrote: » I tried to disprove your statement last night which you made without caveats using numbers that Ireland and Sweden have as you said "a similar death rate" Thanks to the poster who put the graph together to explain it even better why that statement was incorrect.
The points brought up about age profile of death are interesting\concerning\disappointing and should be discussed and my main hope from this is that every country learns how to handle the scenario better.
Spiderman0081 wrote: » I live in Stockholm. Have done with 10 years now and have never felt so lucky. ..... I hope to god no healthy person on here is actually considering taking a vaccine if it ever appears.
Spiderman0081 wrote: » I hope to god no healthy person on here is actually considering taking a vaccine if it ever appears.
Boggles wrote: » Oh dear, you almost you had me.
Arghus wrote: » Interesting post. You seem very against the idea of a vaccine, why is that?
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » Like I said above. Lucky for you that you were able to seize on one line to discount a huge post. So after data analytics and a post from Sweden, your mind is still closed. What will it take to change your viewpoint?
Boggles wrote: » My mind is well and truly open. I just don't tolerate or engage with people who are anti science. It is a general rule that has served me quite well. But hey knock yourself out.
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » Anti science? Where? I have a Masters degree in science!
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » And since you're so keen on the science, have a read of this and tell me if you think it was science or politics?
tobefrank321 wrote: » The Swedes at least have been transparent about a worst case scenario. No other country seems to have produced a worst case scenario for a second wave, unless you can find it for me? The point of outlining a worst case scenario is to implement measures and advice to ensure it doesn't happen. Its a myth as you well know that the Swedes have no restrictions, although generally they rely on advice and guidance than strict rules. Here is that advice:https://www.thelocal.se/20200228/coronavirus-the-everyday-precautions-to-take-if-youre-in-sweden There was talk about lockdown fatigue in some countries and when best to implement a lockdown. It may have played a part in delays in the UK and possibly Ireland to a lesser extent. However we definitely saw at the end of lockdowns in Ireland, UK and US and other countries significant fatigue and a desire to get back to normality. There were protests in countries like France against it as well as the US. You only have to look back on this forum at the fatigue towards the end and the unwillingness ever to go into lockdown again. Its always better to get people's buy in and co-operation than force them to do something as they will rebel against the latter.
charlie14 wrote: » I would suspect that the Sweden number has as much do do with someone asking a question at this on-going inquiry into Sweden`s handling of Covid-19
FintanMcluskey wrote: » I hope the inquiry into Irelands handling of Covid is just as invasive
charlie14 wrote: » If there is one it will be a much shorter affair I imagine. Especially if HIQA are correct. It will show just how effective lockdown was.
FintanMcluskey wrote: » Will you read the last 2 pages here. Specifically posts by the poster called bit cynical. The statistics dont back up the effectiveness of a lockdown
charlie14 wrote: » Look up the statistics for the Nordic countries and then tell me which is the outlier when it comes to confirmed cases and deaths. Sweden who did not use lockdown or any of the three others who did. Not that it may give you a better understanding as from engaging with you on another thread you do not appear to know the difference between limited restrictions and a full lockdown.
Boggles wrote: » I have read it and many more like it. What's your point?
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » My point is that there will be huge political, financial and social pressure to create and deliver a vaccine. So, being slow or reluctant to take this vaccine is neither foolish nor anti science. I'm happy to be last in the queue to take it. Could also be that the vulnerable are not able to take this vaccine.
tobefrank321 wrote: » I'm as pro vaccine and science as the next person but as you say there's no guarantee this will work for those with a weak immune system unless someone can prove otherwise. That may mean the healthy will have to be vaccinated to protect the vulnerable. Fair enough if that's the case but trying a new vaccine on children who could end up with a lifetime of problems when covid might give them no issues is ethically questionable. I hope a vaccine works though and we see the back of this virus.
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » They've already decided that the rights of the young should be curtailed to protect the vulnerable.
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » I'm happy to be last in the queue to take it. Could also be that the vulnerable are not able to take this vaccine.
Boggles wrote: » Indeed, more of a reason for the likes of us to take it so. One thing I won't be doing is hoping to God no one takes it, as the poster I was replying to suggested.
Jessica Swift Bearded wrote: » The problem with all this talk about vaccines is that you then focused solely on vaccines and ignored the rest of his post. I really wish he hadn't mentioned vaccines. This thread is about Sweden and he is living in Sweden. What do you think of his first hand experience from Sweden?
Boggles wrote: » Is he? You sure? Anyway I have to email back this Nigerian Prince he says he is going to give me 600 million, imagine that.
