nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

Sweden avoiding lockdown

frillyleaf

Does Sweden have the right approach to this and how is their healthcare system being able to manage Covid19 cases?

What are the differences between Sweden and Ireland and why can’t we continue similar to how Sweden is managing Covid19?

I’m not suggesting either is right or wrong. I would just like to know how Sweden can continue as normal and other countries can’t. Thanks ðŸ˜Š

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

cnocbui

Sweden's household lending growth is up 5.1.%

Their balance of trade for June was SEK4.9B - 53% higher than expected
Retail sales are up 1%, month on month. -1% was forecast.
Reatail sales YOY are up 3.5% - 0.2% was expected.

So much for the imploding Swedish economy the critics on here were hoping for.

cnocbui

Deleted User wrote: »

Norway, shares a 1,630km border with Sweden. Where's the second wave in Norway? or Denmark? or Finland? Finland shares a 555km border with Sweden and a 1,340km border with Russia (you know, the country with the fourth worst outbreak in the world?)

Why are you still pretending that those 3 neighbours of Sweden don't exist when irrationally defending Sweden?

13th-19th of July:

Norway performed 23,997 PCR tests and a positivity ratio of 0.225%

Sweden performed 69,393 PCR tests and a positivity ratio of 3.7%

Norway fully re-opened (aside from international travel months ago).

I've asked several times and you've never answered, why do you hate evidence & facts so much?

I have you on ignore, so don't bother addressing me or expecting answers..

tobefrank321

Well it looks like strict 3 month lockdowns in most European countries have done nothing to prevent a second wave. What now? Another economy destroying lockdown?

This virus seems to depend on tourism in large part. And many economies also depend significantly on tourism.

Bit cynical

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

If you were arguing they were deliberately reporting case numbers, deaths or hospitalisations that would make sense as hiding those figures to keep their numbers low would make it appear their strategy was working.

Though, of course, evidence would still need to be provided for that.

SeaBreezes

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

This is data for recoveries, and it is at least 10,000s less than it should be. It's not exactly a figure that a country would be deliberately trying to hide. If you were arguing they were deliberately reporting case numbers, deaths or hospitalisations that would make sense as hiding those figures to keep their numbers low would make it appear their strategy was working.

We only started reporting recoveries when we already had hundreds of deaths. Up until that point 100% of our closed cases resulted in death. 100%!?!?!? Would that figure be a valid argument for us handling it poorly. Of course it wouldn't as that figure was obviously not accurate.

Using this figure to show how badly Sweden handled this is stupid as the figure is obviously based on inaccurate data. It is actually hurts the argument to use it as it is so easily dismissed as being wrong. I'm firmly in the camp that Sweden handled this poorly by not locking down earlier and even I rolled my eyes when I seen that figure because it is stupid.

I wonder if they are deliberately not listing recoveries as soo much is unknown? In the following study 2/3 of those tested.were mild cases and they excluded anyone with pre existing heart issues.

Not good news for the herd ..

https://twitter.com/CT_Bergstrom/status/1287994291902545920

AlmightyCushion

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Yes, odd isnt it sweden not updating its stats.
Hard to.see the actual.numbers in worldometer.

Funny, that. Wonder why.

This is data for recoveries, and it is at least 10,000s less than it should be. It's not exactly a figure that a country would be deliberately trying to hide. If you were arguing they were deliberately reporting case numbers, deaths or hospitalisations that would make sense as hiding those figures to keep their numbers low would make it appear their strategy was working.

We only started reporting recoveries when we already had hundreds of deaths. Up until that point 100% of our closed cases resulted in death. 100%!?!?!? Would that figure be a valid argument for us handling it poorly. Of course it wouldn't as that figure was obviously not accurate.

Using this figure to show how badly Sweden handled this is stupid as the figure is obviously based on inaccurate data. It is actually hurts the argument to use it as it is so easily dismissed as being wrong. I'm firmly in the camp that Sweden handled this poorly by not locking down earlier and even I rolled my eyes when I seen that figure because it is stupid.

charlie14

tobefrank321 wrote: »

There won't be waves in Sweden. Waves happen in countries who impose and lift lockdowns where you get peaks and troughs.

Who knows if Sweden will achieve herd immunity in the longrun but what is certain is antibody testing is losing credibiliy as a metric of who was infected or is immune. A lot of experts are calling them into question.

Some people may have no covid 19 antibodies and yet be immune via other means.

The virus is still active there so why would Sweden be any different with peaks and troughs to any other country?
Their own authorities are warning of a second wave,and their public health agency are forecasting even more deaths from a second wave than they have at present.

All we have to go on as regards immunity are the various test results. From those Spain and France would have as much chance of herd immunity as Sweden.

SeaBreezes

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

True but that data is obviously inaccurate so it can't be used to prove anything.

Yes, odd isnt it sweden not updating its stats.
Hard to.see the actual.numbers in worldometer.

Funny, that. Wonder why.

AlmightyCushion

SeaBreezes wrote: »

Shes using the swedish govs own data at the time.
.

True but that data is obviously inaccurate so it can't be used to prove anything.

SeaBreezes

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

Yeah, her argument about them handling it poorly may be valid but she's using bad data to try and prove it.

Shes using the swedish govs own data at the time.
.

SeaBreezes

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Total nonsense.

There's been about 80,000 confirmed cases in Sweden and 5,700 deaths. Deaths are rising far slower than new cases. It will never be anything near 40%. Its unlikely ever to go above 8%.

Shes giving the stats at the time of posting.
While i agree these stats will come down, no other country reached this crazy high ratio before coming down.

AlmightyCushion

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Yes that's the most likely reason. Absolutely no way it will ever approach 40%. She's shot herself in the foot with that nonsense.

Yeah, her argument about them handling it poorly may be valid but she's using bad data to try and prove it.

tobefrank321

AlmightyCushion wrote: »

It's possible the figure is technically true in the sense that if you take the figure for confirmed recoveries and confirmed deaths, the deaths would be 40% of that total figure. However, that would be because Sweden just haven't updated their recovered figures.

Yes that's the most likely reason. Absolutely no way it will ever approach 40%. She's shot herself in the foot with that nonsense.

AlmightyCushion

It's possible the figure is technically true in the sense that if you take the figure for confirmed recoveries and confirmed deaths, the deaths would be 40% of that total figure. However, that would be because Sweden just haven't updated their recovered figures.

tobefrank321

charlie14 wrote: »

I wouldn`t say it worked our ok for Sweden. They didn`t get what they were aiming for, and if there is a second wave their strategy has left them in the same position as everyone else, but with a higher death rate than most.
Had we gone the same way and it resulted in our health service being over-run with many more deaths, I cannot see how the nations psyche would be better than it is now.

There won't be waves in Sweden. Waves happen in countries who impose and lift lockdowns where you get peaks and troughs.

Who knows if Sweden will achieve herd immunity in the longrun but what is certain is antibody testing is losing credibiliy as a metric of who was infected or is immune. A lot of experts are calling them into question.

Some people may have no covid 19 antibodies and yet be immune via other means.

tobefrank321

SeaBreezes wrote: »

https://twitter.com/JoannaTeglund/status/1286030578563911682

Total nonsense.

There's been about 80,000 confirmed cases in Sweden and 5,700 deaths. Deaths are rising far slower than new cases. It will never be anything near 40%. Its unlikely ever to go above 8%.

SeaBreezes

https://twitter.com/JoannaTeglund/status/1286030578563911682

charlie14

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I would probably agree with you. Given what was known at the time we reacted cautiously but more or less appropriately. Sweden was a bit of a dare. Not for the decision itself but because it was going not quite with the herd. Always dangerous that. There would not have been any appetite for that here.

My previous 'we' was Europe other than Sweden btw.

The way I see it Swedens dare worked out ok for them. Their numbers are reasonable but they will experience less of a COVID trauma than other countries. Thats where I fear for us (Ireland) a bit. I fear we will have to get dragged kicking and screaming back to normality. I fear schools will be open for one day then someone sneezes. We did well with the numbers but the nations psyche is not in a good spot right now.

I wouldn`t say it worked our ok for Sweden. They didn`t get what they were aiming for, and if there is a second wave their strategy has left them in the same position as everyone else, but with a higher death rate than most.
Had we gone the same way and it resulted in our health service being over-run with many more deaths, I cannot see how the nations psyche would be better than it is now.

FintanMcluskey

[QUOTE=CalamariFritti;114148411We did well with the numbers but the nations psyche is not in a good spot right now.[/QUOTE]

Its not, and thats going to be a bigger problem than Covid

CalamariFritti

I would probably agree with you. Given what was known at the time we reacted cautiously but more or less appropriately. Sweden was a bit of a dare. Not for the decision itself but because it was going not quite with the herd. Always dangerous that. There would not have been any appetite for that here.

My previous 'we' was Europe other than Sweden btw.

The way I see it Swedens dare worked out ok for them. Their numbers are reasonable but they will experience less of a COVID trauma than other countries. Thats where I fear for us (Ireland) a bit. I fear we will have to get dragged kicking and screaming back to normality. I fear schools will be open for one day then someone sneezes. We did well with the numbers but the nations psyche is not in a good spot right now.

Sconsey

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thats pretty much where we are, too. We overreacted so strongly and we caused so much damage to societies and economies and we are all caught up in this so much we are the most all-in people I ever saw. It is currently impossible to even slightly question the current narrative never mind admitting we overreacted and continue to do so.

I know most of you fully buy into the current narrative. Zero-risk, everything has to be done, COVID is the worst thing ever. Granny killer. Second wave. Everyone who thinks otherwise is either a selfish arsehole or an idiot.

I will not even try to deter or convince you of anything lese, just entertain this thought for one minute. Lets just assume we did overreact. Do you believe for a moment that we'd find the courage to admit it? Or would we simply plough on and keep the story going?

I'd be interested to know who you are referring to when you say 'we'? If 'we' is Ireland then we have by no means been the most 'all-in' on lockdown. Pleny of other couunties have had harsher lockdowns than Ireland. Is 'we' western Europe in general (excluding Sweden)? We over-reacted more than some, but under-reacted compared to others.

What was the right decision? Personally I think we got it about right based on the current figures, but it will probably be 5 or 10 years time before we really know who got it 'most right'.

[Deleted User]

cnocbui wrote: »

The exception that proves the rule. New Zealand is the ultimate zombie apocalypse hideout. Australia were within a hairs breadth of supposed eradication and Joining NZ on the worlds shortest list. Now look at it.

Norway, shares a 1,630km border with Sweden. Where's the second wave in Norway? or Denmark? or Finland? Finland shares a 555km border with Sweden and a 1,340km border with Russia (you know, the country with the fourth worst outbreak in the world?)

Why are you still pretending that those 3 neighbours of Sweden don't exist when irrationally defending Sweden?

13th-19th of July:

Norway performed 23,997 PCR tests and a positivity ratio of 0.225%

Sweden performed 69,393 PCR tests and a positivity ratio of 3.7%

Norway fully re-opened (aside from international travel months ago).

I've asked several times and you've never answered, why do you hate evidence & facts so much?

CalamariFritti

Thats pretty much where we are, too. We overreacted so strongly and we caused so much damage to societies and economies and we are all caught up in this so much we are the most all-in people I ever saw. It is currently impossible to even slightly question the current narrative never mind admitting we overreacted and continue to do so.

I know most of you fully buy into the current narrative. Zero-risk, everything has to be done, COVID is the worst thing ever. Granny killer. Second wave. Everyone who thinks otherwise is either a selfish arsehole or an idiot.

I will not even try to deter or convince you of anything lese, just entertain this thought for one minute. Lets just assume we did overreact. Do you believe for a moment that we'd find the courage to admit it? Or would we simply plough on and keep the story going?

JimmyVik

charlie14 wrote: »

His own health agency is saying no better for Sweden. In the event of a second wave they are prediction larger deaths than they have at present.

As they say at the tables. Tegnell and Sweden are "all-in" now.

charlie14

Onesea wrote: »

Tegnel stated as soon as countries opened their boarders to normal travel they will experience an unavoidable increase in cases. Lock up yer vulnerable. The data is in plain sight.

His own health agency is saying no better for Sweden. In the event of a second wave they are prediction larger deaths than they have at present.

charlie14

cnocbui wrote: »

The daily new cases and daily death rate for Sweden shows clearly that the antibody test you so love to quote is functionally meaningless. Predictably, as time goes on, Sweden is looking more vindicated with each passing day, particularly in light of 40 nations reporting record single day increases in infections.

Were you not one of the posters here who had so much faith in Tegnell`s antibody figures as justification for the Swedish strategy ?
I always thought it a baseless and reckless experiment with lives.
I do not see why you feel this continuous need to run around the globe looking for countries to justify it, when all you need to do to see how ill judged it was is look at those bordering Sweden.
I cannot see where you believe this vindication is coming from either.
Sweden`s own predictions are that if there is a second wave their deaths will be greater than the number of deaths presently.

Onesea

Boggles wrote: »

Hyperbole aside, New Zealand certainly had some advantages as does Sweden.

But that's not what you claimed is it?

Tegnel stated as soon as countries opened their boarders to normal travel they will experience an unavoidable increase in cases. Lock up yer vulnerable. The data is in plain sight.

Boggles

bb1234567 wrote: »

Well to be fair, long time to go yet before they can safely claim that number of deaths will stay at 22. .

No one was claiming that.

Boggles

cnocbui wrote: »

The exception that proves the rule. New Zealand is the ultimate zombie apocalypse hideout.

Hyperbole aside, New Zealand certainly had some advantages as does Sweden.

But that's not what you claimed is it?

bb1234567

Boggles wrote: »

Huh?

New Zealand, 22 deaths no second wave.

Discuss?

Well to be fair, long time to go yet before they can safely claim that number of deaths will stay at 22. Australian government and citizens seemed confident to say the situation is under control and now they have reported 44 new deaths over the last few weeks in their 'second wave', not a lot of deaths but it's a big increase for them, 50% in fact. So, things can change pretty dramatically very quickly.

Obviously you can keep deaths to a pretty minor level, as most of Europe is now doing . But it's never going to be zero, think we have to remain cognissant of that. This is now just another cause of death among the many, and it's pretty irrational the obsessive determination that has taken hold to limit deaths from COVID to zero, while people suffering many other illnesses which cause far more deaths are left to fall by the wayside. Both of my grandads are now terminal with cancer due to delayed treatments, they probably would have died soon anyway of something else pretty soon, both over 85, but I think it is just another symptoms of this completely unjustifiable reckless mission to eradicate a virus that will never go a way, and doing it at an incredible cost to quality of life of everyone and in so many ways. Other people matter too apart from COVID victims, I think people seriously need to be reminded of that and I'm not being smart.
There are other problems, other people are dying, other people that still need the care and attention that their serious illnesses required before they were completely neglected in favour of COVID victims, who are still being neglected in Ireland despite COVID not even being present in the community. One of my grandads is still alone in hospital for days now, receiving terminal diagnosis with nobody there to comfort him because of covid regulations, it's horrifically sad and senseless.