How will schools be able to go back in September?

seamus wrote: »

The risk to the teachers from the kids is also very low. Provided the teachers do not mix with other teachers, there is little to be concerned about.

People working in offices and restaurants practicing SD are at far higher risk than a teacher in classroom.

Accepted that 10yrs on spread the same as fully grown adults. That can be end of 3rd class on in some, definitely 4th class on.

Icantthinkof1

How can a 10year old spread Covid but a 5 year old cant? Sorry but how does that work?

seamus wrote: »

Around 2 hours is the typical point, but there is some limited benefit up to 4.

https://www.ijic.info/article/download/10788/7862/

Nonsense comparison. Surgeon ripping open a patient? Also patients don't wear masks.

seamus wrote: »

The risk to the teachers from the kids is also very low. Provided the teachers do not mix with other teachers, there is little to be concerned about.

So teachers can mix with plumbers?

This is the type of absolute fúcking nonsense you will hear quite a lot of the next few weeks.

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

How can a 10year old spread Covid but a 5 year old cant? Sorry but how does that work?

The hypothesus put forward is that 5 year olds have smaller lungs and breathe in less of the virus and also as they are a different height, smaller, they breathe air from a different airspace. While 10 years old are around the height of most adults and share the same airspace and their lungs are of a similar adult size and breathe in the same volume of air. Basically.

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

How can a 10year old spread Covid but a 5 year old cant? Sorry but how does that work?

It doesn't.

It came from a Korean Study of households when the schools were closed.

They only test and traced people who got sick.

Dempo1

Just not getting this unless they announce doubling the amount of schools in the country. I accept all the siience etc but can't get how there'll be any confidence in Teachers, Parents etc for a full return, not helped by the just shocking approach by government.

From school buses, Class sizes, unease, Teacher organisations nervousness, Parents concern and now €350 million when a school cant even budget for basic plumbing and repairs, I sense a train wreck coming I'm afraid.

Also, what about boarding schools, I was in one, these will just not work, plain and simple, maybe day pupils can return but boarders, very very doubtful.

Loafing Oaf

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

How can a 10year old spread Covid but a 5 year old cant? Sorry but how does that work?

Presumably it's not that they can't spread it but are significantly less likely to...

the corpo

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

How can a 10year old spread Covid but a 5 year old cant? Sorry but how does that work?

This is one of those funny quirks of science. The logic is 5 year olds aren't spreading to adults, simply because they're short!

So, when a 5 year old coughs, those droplets are at your waist height or lower, not making it into adult airways.

Boggles wrote: »

It doesn't.

It came from a Korean Study of households when the schools were closed.

They only test and traced people who got sick.

They tested 65000 people including children and found that children could spread it too from the ages of 10 upwards

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

the corpo wrote: »

This is one of those funny quirks of science. The logic is 5 year olds aren't spreading to adults, simply because they're short!

So, when a 5 year old coughs, those droplets are at your waist height or lower, not making it into adult airways.

They obviously don't understand how teachers help the little ones in schools.

blanch152

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

How can a 10year old spread Covid but a 5 year old cant? Sorry but how does that work?

Not clear from the HIQA document, it doesn't seem to distinguish between ages, but perhaps studies elsewhere, and since the 23rd June have found something.

https://www.hiqa.ie/sites/default/files/2020-06/Evidence-summary-for-spread-of-COVID-19-by-children.pdf

"An analysis of Irish notifications of SARS-CoV-2 in the school setting found no
transmission from children.
(12) All notifications occurred in early March, before the universal school closure on 12 March 2020. Prior to this closure, when a case was identified within a school, either all children and staff within the school or all children and staff involved with an individual case were excluded, limiting the potential for further transmission. Three paediatric cases (all aged between 10 and 15 years) and three adult cases of COVID-19 with a history of school attendance were identified, along with 1,155 contacts (1,025 school contacts, 130 other settings). None of the original six cases were infected with SARS-CoV-2 via the school setting. All cases except one had symptoms of either cough or fever. Contacts were exposed at school in the classroom, during sports lessons, music lessons and during choir practice for a religious ceremony, which involved a number of schools mixing in a church environment, although the length of time of these activities is not reported. The three paediatric cases had a total of 822 child contacts and 83 adult contacts within the school setting. No additional cases were identified during the follow-up period (14 days) from last contact with the index case. However, only contacts who developed symptoms were referred for testing, thus asymptomatic secondary cases were not captured. Transmission was observed in one instance outside the school environment, between two adult cases and a further adult."

downthemiddle

I wonder will schools be allowed mixed ability pods????

seamus

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Accepted that 10yrs on spread the same as fully grown adults. That can be end of 3rd class on in some, definitely 4th class on.

Which is why the plans will apparently recommend social distancing for older primary kids. Because then you don't need masks.

ixoy

Boggles wrote: »

So teachers can mix with plumbers?

This is the type of absolute fúcking nonsense you will hear quite a lot of the next few weeks.

He's clearly talking about mixing with other teachers in the work setting, much in the same way any work colleague shouldn't be mixing with other work colleagues without distancing themselves.

Icyseanfitz

What about computer classes and practical subjects where tools are all shared, how is that going to pan out.

seamus wrote: »

Which is why the plans will apparently recommend social distancing for older primary kids. Because then you don't need masks.

So you think approximately 30 people in cramped conditions for approximately 6hrs a day is a good idea? Sitting them in groups isn't revolutionary and definitely isn't social distancing.

They need to make masks from 3rd class upwards compulsory while indoors.

Murple

the corpo wrote: »

This is one of those funny quirks of science. The logic is 5 year olds aren't spreading to adults, simply because they're short!

So, when a 5 year old coughs, those droplets are at your waist height or lower, not making it into adult airways.

But then surely they can spread it to their peers, especially in a classroom environment where everyone is sitting close together and is at more or less the same height.
We would always be told to get down to the children's eye level to talk to them. It would be common practice for a teacher to sit on a child's chair at a table to work with them, listen to reading, take part in a station etc. Many Junior class teachers would have children sitting on a mat or the floor when doing a lot of teaching. Again, the teacher would be very close to the level of the children heightwise.
Teachers will have to change everything they do and in many cases, stop things that are considered to be best practice or that improve and optimise teacher pupil interactions. I hope both parents and pupils are ready to accept this.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So you think approximately 30 people in cramped conditions for approximately 6hrs a day is a good idea? Sitting them in groups isn't revolutionary and definitely isn't social distancing.

They need to make masks from 3rd class upwards compulsory while indoors.

As you say sitting them in groups is not revolutionary and certainly did not prevent the spread of viruses in previous years. Any primary school teacher will have experienced half empty classes as vomitting bug or colds or flu have done the rounds. So how is something we have practised for years going to prevent Covid19?

khalessi wrote: »

They tested 65000 people including children and found that children could spread it too from the ages of 10 upwards

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html

https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

South Korean researchers identified 5,706 people who were the first to report Covid-19 symptoms in their households between Jan. 20 and March 27, when schools were closed, and then traced the 59,073 contacts of these “index cases.” They tested all of the household contacts of each patient, regardless of symptoms, but only tested symptomatic contacts outside the household.

The first person in a household to develop symptoms is not necessarily the first to have been infected, and the researchers acknowledged this limitation. Children are also less likely than adults to show symptoms, so the study may have underestimated the number of children who set off the chain of transmission within their households.

The science has moved on since then.

If they could do it again I imagine they would have tested a hell of a lot more.

All children can get it and spread it, whatever the age.

lulublue22

seamus wrote: »

Which is why the plans will apparently recommend social distancing for older primary kids. Because then you don't need masks.

Which would be fair enough if the majority of schools could implement SD. They can’t unless class sizes are reduced. In effect this would mean half attendance for children staff full time. This is at odds with the gov’s repeated insistence of reopening schools full time fir all children. Do people still not realise the physical limitations that schools face. Many classes you couldn't swing a cat in at primary level once you have 30 kids teacher and SNA. It’s all well in good talking about building works and money for same but we are 4 weeks out from opening. What building work will be completed in 4 weeks. If the gov wants full return of all children a plan should have been put into action back in April / May.

CruelSummer

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So you think approximately 30 people in cramped conditions for approximately 6hrs a day is a good idea? Sitting them in groups isn't revolutionary and definitely isn't social distancing.

They need to make masks from 3rd class upwards compulsory while indoors.

The hysterical posts on this thread re masks are ridiculous. No child should be forced to wear one on their faces all day long. There is research out there that shows masks are ineffective after a certain amount of time.

Also..what about children who cannot keep on a costume mask, Halloween mask for more than 5 minutes? They handle, fiddle with them constantly, they find them suffocating at times and that alone would spread Covid easily...are any of the posters on this thread actually teachers or even parents?

blanch152

Murple wrote: »

But then surely they can spread it to their peers, especially in a classroom environment where everyone is sitting close together and is at more or less the same height.
We would always be told to get down to the children's eye level to talk to them. It would be common practice for a teacher to sit on a child's chair at a table to work with them, listen to reading, take part in a station etc. Many Junior class teachers would have children sitting on a mat or the floor when doing a lot of teaching. Again, the teacher would be very close to the level of the children heightwise.
Teachers will have to change everything they do and in many cases, stop things that are considered to be best practice or that improve and optimise teacher pupil interactions. I hope both parents and pupils are ready to accept this.

There are no examples in Ireland of children infecting teachers. None. HIQA have looked at it.

Abroad, there is some evidence of children over 10 possibly infecting teachers, but it is a low probability. For some reason, it doesn't seem to happen.

Teachers, so long as they avoid close contact with other teachers, are nearly as safe as someone working from home, even if that sounds bizarre.

Icantthinkof1

So if my 5 year old was infected and she gave it to me then I would receive less of a viral load?
But on the flip side then would that then mean if I was infected would I give her a larger viral load as obviously my lungs are bigger than hers so are children under 10 more at risk from adults than their peers?
So should teachers therefore wear masks in the classroom but children under 10 shouldn’t need to?

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So you think approximately 30 people in cramped conditions for approximately 6hrs a day is a good idea? Sitting them in groups isn't revolutionary and definitely isn't social distancing.

They need to make masks from 3rd class upwards compulsory while indoors.

Well apparently if you have 2 rooms of students.

There is an infected student in each room.

The room where everyone is wearing a mask has the exact same chance of spread as the room wear no one is wearing a mask after 2 hours.

This is the type of "science" you will need get used to going forward.

blanch152

Boggles wrote: »

The science has moved on since then.

If they could do it again I imagine they would have tested a hell of a lot more.

All children can get it and spread it, whatever the age.

Do you have any scientific studies to back that up?

lulublue22

[QUOTE=CruelSummer;114..are any of the posters on this thread actually teachers or even parents?[/QUOTE]

No we are just all posting for the craic.

CruelSummer wrote: »

The hysterical posts on this thread re masks are ridiculous. No child should be forced to wear one on their faces all day long. There is research out there that shows masks are ineffective after a certain amount of time.

Also..what about children who cannot keep on a costume mask, Halloween mask for more than 5 minutes? They handle, fiddle with them constantly, they find them suffocating at times and that alone would spread Covid easily...are any of the posters on this thread actually teachers or even parents?

Let them bring 3 masks a day. Can be swapped out at the same time every day in conjunction with hand sanitising.

I don't accept that my colleagues and I should be put in harm's way.

blanch152 wrote: »

There are no examples in Ireland of children infecting teachers. None. HIQA have looked at it.

What exactly have they looked into?

The schools have been closed, there is no evidence to look at.

There was no scaled up robust testing or tracing system in place on March 12th.

Quite simply the data doesn't exist.

CruelSummer wrote: »

...are any of the posters on this thread actually teachers or even parents?

Dang, you found us out and we were hopin to keep the gag going till Halloween