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Child Item

How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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Blondini

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Imagine our healthcare workers took the same view as some here.

Or essential workers.

We would all be dead by now.

Oh dear, it's like tagteam ridiculousness here now.

Very entertaining.

Jinglejangle69

History Queen wrote: »

Imagine our healthcare workers were left with no guidelines/PPE/safety measures

We all have the same guidelines and safety measures working during the pandemic.

We all had to get on with it.

Absolute shambles the teachers are.

Restaurants, GAA, hairdressers etc all back.

6 cases today.

But no teachers lives are more important than the rest of us.

I put myself at risk everyday so they remain on full pay at home.

I realise life just has to go on and everyone needs to make the sacrifice.

Jinglejangle69

Blondini wrote: »

Oh dear, it's like tagteam ridiculousness here now.

Very entertaining.

Glad you're finding the whole situation funny.

Not surprised though.

Its all a joke to people sitting at home on full pay.

khalessi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Imagine our healthcare workers took the same view as some here.

Or essential workers.

We would all be dead by now.

Our healthcare workers in March took the same approach. They had to fight for proper PPE and it was granted and all over papers on April 22nd and only since then were they given proper PPE.

HCW in nursing homes were still fighting for proper ppe in May.

History Queen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

We all have the same guidelines and safety measures working during the pandemic.

We all had to get on with it.

Absolute shambles the teachers are.

Restaurants, GAA, hairdressers etc all back.

6 cases today.

But no teachers lives are more important than the rest of us.

I put myself at risk everyday so they remain on full pay at home.

I realise life just has to go on and everyone needs to make the sacrifice.

No one said teachers lives are more important. We want to get on with it.

Blondini

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

We all have the same guidelines and safety measures working during the pandemic.

We all had to get on with it.

Absolute shambles the teachers are.

Restaurants, GAA, hairdressers etc all back.

6 cases today.

But no teachers lives are more important than the rest of us.

I put myself at risk everyday so they remain on full pay at home.

I realise life just has to go on and everyone needs to make the sacrifice.

Pssst, as it stands we ARE going back to school. That's the current situation. Just thought I'd tell you that.

Jinglejangle69

History Queen wrote: »

No one said teachers lives are more important. We want to get on with it.

No yous don't.

Everyone else has got on with it.

We had no choice.

You want to be spoonfed every step of the way.

Any other job and you would be out in your ear back on 203 a week.

Jinglejangle69

Blondini wrote: »

Pssst, as it stands we ARE going back to school. That's the current situation. Just thought I'd tell you that.

I haven't heard anything from my kids school about dates for going back??

History Queen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

No yous don't.

Everyone else has got on with it.

We had no choice.

You want to be spoonfed every step of the way.

Any other job and you would be out in your ear back on 203 a week.

Yes we do, or at least I and my colleagues do, as do many of the teachers on this forum. You not agreeing doesn't make that less true.

khalessi

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

We all have the same guidelines and safety measures working during the pandemic.

We all had to get on with it.

Absolute shambles the teachers are.

Restaurants, GAA, hairdressers etc all back.

6 cases today.

But no teachers lives are more important than the rest of us.

I put myself at risk everyday so they remain on full pay at home.

I realise life just has to go on and everyone needs to make the sacrifice.

Actually teachers have not had guidelines. All the businesses that went back were provided with sd, hygiene, ppe where necessary or useful. So teachers are not more important they are just asking to be treated the same and given the sake protections, not unreasonable.

The reason we are at home is because DOE closed schools due to a pandemic and now we are on holidays, do you volunteer to go to work on your days off?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Blondini wrote: »

Genuine question, where do you get all the time to be ridiculously bitter towards teachers online? I mean its obviously an irrational obsession to which you dedicate most of your waking hours.

Should you not be homeschooling your children instead with this valuable time to make up for the poor job that the teachers have done?

Summer hols, (well for the kids anyway) why would I be homeschooling? Kids are too busy living life and catching up on the fun stuff now that they can play with friends, meet up with relatives and do sports.

Luckily my kids are in an alright place education wise and don't need anything extra (again luckily), not everyone can say the same and some really needed the additional support and many were found wanting.

Thankfully I ditched the homeschooling farce back in June, seemingly long after my kids teacher had decided to.

What exactly do you find "ridiculously bitter" or "irrational" about anything I've posted?

History Queen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I haven't heard anything from my kids school about dates for going back??

Some schools are choosing not to issue dates until they find out if all students will be back or if a staggered return will be needed. Some schools have already issued dates. Our school issued dates but with the caveat that dates may change. Contact your school for clarity.

Blondini

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

No yous don't.

Everyone else has got on with it.

We had no choice.

You want to be spoonfed every step of the way.

Any other job and you would be out in your ear back on 203 a week.

Spoonfed? You mean waiting from instructions from our superiors like all professions do?

As it stands I'm back in work at the end of August unless you know better?

Have a cup of tea and calm down.

wirelessdude01

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I haven't heard anything from my kids school about dates for going back??

So you haven't been given a school calendar for the school year 20/21? I highly doubt that.

Ours has been available since before we were kicked out of school.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

khalessi wrote: »

Actually teachers have not had guidelines. All the businesses that went back were provided with sd, hygiene, ppe where necessary or useful. So teachers are not more important they are just asking to be treated the same and given the sake protections, not unreasonable.

The reason we are at home is because DOE closed schools due to a pandemic and now we are on holidays, do you volunteer to go to work on your days off?

Schools have been issued with interim guidelines and maybe they are choosing to ignore this fact.

Here's hoping that there's some serious work going on behind the scenes because when the rest of the country is back in action schools will have little excuse for keeping their doors closed.

Not all businesses 'went back' because plenty never closed, not everyone has been afforded social distancing in their workplace so that is completely untrue.

Leftwaffe

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

No yous don't.

Everyone else has got on with it.

We had no choice.

You want to be spoonfed every step of the way.

Any other job and you would be out in your ear back on 203 a week.

Well, technically this is still the off season for schools so teachers are regularly off. I’m not just saying this but I haven’t talked to one teacher who doesn’t want to go back. I’m desperate to go back. I’d go tomorrow if I had to. The logistics of opening a school to 1000 kids though is something that needs serious planning, you have to appreciate that?

Now I totally agree that this plan should be in place long ago and there should be no doubt as to whether schools are back or not in September. But unfortunately we’ve received feck all. Particularly at PP level.

Smacruairi

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

Well, technically this is still the off season for schools so teachers are regularly off. I’m not just saying this but I haven’t talked to one teacher who doesn’t want to go back. I’m desperate to go back. I’d go tomorrow if I had to. The logistics of opening a school to 1000 kids though is something that needs serious planning, you have to appreciate that?

Now I totally agree that this plan should be in place long ago and there should be no doubt as to whether schools are back or not in September. But unfortunately we’ve received feck all. Particularly at PP level.

Jesus, we have been through this all a month ago. If people scan my previous posts, they'll get an insight into the planning process. But until then, it seems that its just the usual back and forth between detractors and defenders. I'd advise no one actually post again for their own wellbeing until something further is issued by the DES. Until then I can tell you that :

Every school I've engaged with had their BOM working on a response plan. The BOM is made up of parents teachers and their patrons, that covers all of the interests. If parents aren't happy, they can go through the BOM, I can tell you that our bom has extremely demanding parent nominees, and rightfully so, just as there are extremely strong teacher nominees etc.

I understand people saying "be proactive", but again the DES is the head honcho. If a school decides "right, we are running x plan for social distancing", I'm sure that you will still have many people annoyed that the plan doesn't cater for their needs, and then look to change it at local level. The govt could then make that plan completely redundant in a Friday evening tweet wasting hundreds of hours of effort, only furthering embittering all parties. This will create chaos for everyone, that's why centralised DES guidelines are needed for the running of the day. The DES has not given those yet. Everything else is arguing over the colour of paint on the Titanic lifeboats.

The gripes at lazy staff and entitled parents plays exactly into the govts hands - they have done nothing to ease the public or its workers at all. Please direct your ire at your local TDs and councillors, that might actually be constructive than trotting out the same attacks and counterattacks here. Everything else is a nonsense.

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

Schools have been issued with interim guidelines and maybe they are choosing to ignore this fact.

Here's hoping that there's some serious work going on behind the scenes because when the rest of the country is back in action schools will have little excuse for keeping their doors closed.

Not all businesses 'went back' because plenty never closed, not everyone has been afforded social distancing in their workplace so that is completely untrue.

Compeletly untrue, really!! So protections were not provided. Hairdressers cannot social distance, so they have screens between clients in some salons, they have face shields while clients have masks. So don't just concentrate on social distancing to suit your argument, as I also mentioned hygiene, ppe, social disctancing, limiting numbers in stores were all provided.

Most businesses closed hence at one stage over a million on covid payments.

As they reopen they are using some form of protection in the line of limiting numbers, sd, ppe, hygiene, perspex shields.

timmy_mallet

khalessi wrote: »

Compeletly untrue, really!! So protections were not provided. Hairdressers cannot social distance, so they have screens between clients in some salons, they have face shields while clients have masks. So don't just concentrate on social distancing to suit your argument, as I also mentioned hygiene, ppe, social disctancing, limiting numbers in stores were all provided.

Most businesses closed hence at one stage over a million on covid payments.

As they reopen they are using some form of protection in the line of limiting numbers, sd, ppe, hygiene, perspex shields.

Right, but this is a school, not a color and blowdry. Masks are extremely effective at preventing passing of covid 19, young kids are significantly better at managing the disease, so teachers need not worry about passing it on in class. They can effectively social distance between other adults, the maks offer them protection too. Good hygiene practices from teachers, and kids alike and itll be fine.

Murple

froog wrote: »

i think there is obviously genuine concerns around the schools but some teachers/principles seem to want the government to personally go into their schools and tell them exactly what to do. it's not rocket science, everyone knows what you need to do and businesses have successfully been implementing guidelines for months now. schools need to take a bit of responsibility here and start coming up with solutions for their own schools.

Businesses can operate independently and set their own opening hours.
All my local supermarkets have reduced their opening hours. Initially they said it was to allow for restocking shelves so it didn't have to be done with customers there and also to allow for full cleaning. Lots of shops are opening a bit later and closing earlier.
All shops can decide how many customers they let in at a time. Shops on the Main Street of my town admit between 2 and 10 people at a time. They have employees stopping people from coming in and customers have to wait outside until there is space made by another customer leaving.
Business can decide to reduce what they can offer to account for the extra measures that sre in place.

Now apply that to schools 'taking a bit of responsibility'.
Imagine the uproar on boards...
'My child's school has shortened the school day. 1st and 2nd Class have to go home half an hour earlier each day. Not only that but then I have to go back half an hour later to get my 4th class child and half an hour later again to get my kid in 6th.'
'No way are they allowed do that. I'd report them to the department.'

'My child's school has just emailed us to say only half the class are in at a time so they can keep them a metre apart.'
'Well my kids school is only having 6 at a time so they can be 2 metres apart'
'Well in my neighbour's niece's vet's stepdaughters school, they all in every day. If one school can do it, why can't they all. Those other schools are taking the piss'
'Talk of taking the piss, I couldn't even go into the school to bring my kid in who was upset. The teacher stopped me at the door and told me I couldn't. How dare she. Easy knowing she doesn't have kids herself'
'My kids school has no problem letting us in. You should complain'

'My kids haven't done art, music or PE for weeks. He said they keep doing English, Irish and maths.'
'Lazy teacher probably can't be bothered doing anything else'
'Teacher said it's to catch up on what they've missed but I checked. They are supposed to spend an hour a week on PE and 3 hours on arts subjects.'
'You should complain. That's not good enough'

And then there'll be the campaign from various parent groups and others for every child to get full days of school and at that point, the department will decide that schools are not allowed to stagger start times, not allowed to send classes home early, not allowed to split classes and do half in, half out etc etc.

Schools need guidance or confirmation from the department on what measures will be permitted. There are regulations at the moment around everything such as length of school day, hours per subjects, curriculum content etc. Schools need to be told what regulations will be open to change. Only then can they interpret the health guidelines for their own school.

khalessi

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Right, but this is a school, not a color and blowdry. Masks are extremely effective at preventing passing of covid 19, young kids are significantly better at managing the disease, so teachers need not worry about passing it on in class. They can effectively social distance between other adults, the maks offer them protection too. Good hygiene practices from teachers, and kids alike and itll be fine.

Actually recent study from Korea of 60000+ people including children found that children aged 0-9 minimal spread, children 10+ same infection/ spread rate as adults maybe due to height, or near adult lung capacity.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html
https://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/26/10/20-1315_article

But thanks for explaining the difference

downthemiddle

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Right, but this is a school, not a color and blowdry. Masks are extremely effective at preventing passing of covid 19, young kids are significantly better at managing the disease, so teachers need not worry about passing it on in class. They can effectively social distance between other adults, the maks offer them protection too. Good hygiene practices from teachers, and kids alike and itll be fine.

Unfortunately my dear Mallet the issue is a little more complicated than that. When schools are open a million people are on the move on a daily basis. That brings challenges and the expectation that all will behave in a socially responsible manner, something that a sizable minority have failed to do recently. Your belief about young children being significantly better at managing the disease is entertaining but more than a little misguided. I do believe, though, that you have something in common with the DES in hoping it'll be fine.

r93kaey5p2izun

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Right, but this is a school, not a color and blowdry. Masks are extremely effective at preventing passing of covid 19, young kids are significantly better at managing the disease, so teachers need not worry about passing it on in class. They can effectively social distance between other adults, the maks offer them protection too. Good hygiene practices from teachers, and kids alike and itll be fine.

Why wasn't it fine in Israel? And Melbourne? And South Africa?

mcsean2163

khalessi wrote: »

Our healthcare workers in March took the same approach. They had to fight for proper PPE and it was granted and all over papers on April 22nd and only since then were they given proper PPE.

HCW in nursing homes were still fighting for proper ppe in May.

No they didn't. My wife is a healthcare worker and fought for patient lives despite the crappy PPE. If it was a really really deadly virus, there would be a lot more dead doctors and nurses and families of doctors and nurses.

We got lucky.

froog

History Queen wrote: »

Imagine our healthcare workers were left with no guidelines/PPE/safety measures...

^I do take your point though. I just wish people would accept that no one here has answers. It's all endless speculation until the Dept issue guidelines and funds so we can get stuck in and get ready for the new school year.

the guidance is there. it's not rocket science.

khalessi

mcsean2163 wrote: »

No they didn't. My wife is a healthcare worker and fought for patient lives despite the crappy PPE. If it was a really really deadly virus, there would be a lot more dead doctors and nurses and families of doctors and nurses.

We got lucky.

We were lucky because as your wife will tell you preparations were made in the hospitals. OPD was shut operations postponed, private hospitals put into public service, public callout to HCW around the world to come home and who now things have calmed have been treated appallingly.

I still keep in contact with the pepople I trained with and they told me about the preparation and the insuffucient gear which resulted in ppe been flown in from China some of which was not fit for purpose in the beginning. Proper ppe was in short supply in the beginning and the IMNO had to go to the papers in March demanding a steady supply of PPE for HCW. It was ntot until April 22nd I think that they were guaranteed consistent supply. HCWs in nursing homes in May were still fighting to get proper ppe

I am a nurse myself and though teaching now still keep an eye on what goes on in the oul nursing world.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nurses-account-for-nearly-one-in-ten-coronavirus-cases-new-data-shows-1.4231423?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fnurses-account-for-nearly-one-in-ten-coronavirus-cases-new-data-shows-1.4231423

https://www.thejournal.ie/nursing-homes-coronavirus-clusters-5061513-Mar2020/

MArch 27th IMNO calling for PPE as it was in short supply
April 22nd IMNO welcomes new universal facemask policy across health service
https://inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13582

HCW in nursing homes in May
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-nursing-homes-used-painters-overalls-as-ppe-due-to-shortages-1.4263080

The same approach is calling on the government to provide ppe and safety precautions as necessary.

mcsean2163

khalessi wrote: »

We were lucky because as your wife will tell you preparations were made in the hospitals. OPD was shut operations postponed, private hospitals put into public service, public callout to HCW around the world to come home and who now things have calmed have been treated appallingly.

I still keep in contact with the pepople I trained with and they told me about the preparation and the insuffucient gear which resulted in ppe been flown in from China some of which was not fit for purpose in the beginning. Proper ppe was in short supply in the beginning and the IMNO had to go to the papers in March demanding a steady supply of PPE for HCW. It was ntot until April 22nd I think that they were guaranteed consistent supply. HCWs in nursing homes in May were still fighting to get proper ppe

I am a nurse myself and though teaching now still keep an eye on what goes on in the oul nursing world.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/nurses-account-for-nearly-one-in-ten-coronavirus-cases-new-data-shows-1.4231423?mode=sample&auth-failed=1&pw-origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.irishtimes.com%2Fnews%2Fireland%2Firish-news%2Fnurses-account-for-nearly-one-in-ten-coronavirus-cases-new-data-shows-1.4231423

https://www.thejournal.ie/nursing-homes-coronavirus-clusters-5061513-Mar2020/

MArch 27th IMNO calling for PPE as it was in short supply
April 22nd IMNO welcomes new universal facemask policy across health service
https://inmo.ie/Home/Index/217/13582

HCW in nursing homes in May
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/coronavirus-nursing-homes-used-painters-overalls-as-ppe-due-to-shortages-1.4263080

The same approach is calling on the government to provide ppe and safety precautions as necessary.

Fair play. Just to confirm, you're aware healthcare workers are about one third of all cases. I'm very aware of the last minute preparations etc

It was a disgrace but thank God the virus was not as bad as feared. Next time we might not be so lucky..

khalessi

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Fair play. Just to confirm, you're aware healthcare workers are about one third of all cases. I'm very aware of the last minute preparations etc

It was a disgrace but thank God the virus was not as bad as feared. Next time we might not be so lucky..

Yup I am aware of HCW being one third of cases, some of that was put down to travel in the daily updates but also was due to poor ppe.

Hopefully they will be better looked after if there is a second wave.

I have family still working on covid side of things so hear the updates and sometimes it would drive you mad how HCW still treated.

Newbie20

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

No yous don't.

Everyone else has got on with it.

We had no choice.

You want to be spoonfed every step of the way.

Any other job and you would be out in your ear back on 203 a week.

Yeah I’m sick of these lazy teachers refusing to go back to work during their summer holidays! Unless they turn up to their empty schools tomorrow and walk around their empty classrooms, they should be put on the COVID payment. I’m also really angry because I saw that some woman wrote in the paper that teachers don’t want to go back. She said all teachers she knows are refusing to go back and the ones she knows all hate children. It makes me so angry!

scilover

School just started back recently in my area. I can't imagine how the school is handling social distancing in classes as when I was in high school, my class had over 40 students jammed back in a small classroom.