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Child Item

How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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FishOnABike

the corpo wrote: »

But I don't think people understand the amount of funding necessary, especially given the emerging evidence. This most likely will go way beyond sanitisation stations. To make children from the age of 10 safe in our school buildings will most likely require....billions? The classrooms need to be entirely overhauled with proper ventilation systems installed.

I mean, that won't happen, but that's the only way we can safely put a full return of children into the existing buildings.

Very true. There are pubs investing four and five figure sums over their shutdown period in renovations and reconfiguring their layout to allow them comply with health guidelines yet our government seem to have made no real practical or financial plans in the same time for schools. 'Ah, sure it will be grand' isn't a plan.

Boggles

the corpo wrote: »

But I don't think people understand the amount of funding necessary, especially given the emerging evidence. This most likely will go way beyond sanitisation stations. To make children from the age of 10 safe in our school buildings will most likely require....billions? The classrooms need to be entirely overhauled with proper ventilation systems installed.

I mean, that won't happen, but that's the only way we can safely put a full return of children into the existing buildings.

If I had child attending a school where their classroom was a 20 year old prefab with a electric storage heater running 24/7 to prevent mold and hypothermia they wouldn't be going.

Bananaleaf

the corpo wrote: »

But I don't think people understand the amount of funding necessary, especially given the emerging evidence.

This is probably true

the corpo

But I don't think people understand the amount of funding necessary, especially given the emerging evidence. This most likely will go way beyond sanitisation stations. To make children from the age of 10 safe in our school buildings will most likely require....billions? The classrooms need to be entirely overhauled with proper ventilation systems installed.

I mean, that won't happen, but that's the only way we can safely put a full return of children into the existing buildings.

cwboy

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

But honestly, the delay is money. Nothing more, nothing less. Every business in the country has funded changes to their business but the government are unwilling to do it
works

This is the crux of the matter. Proper funding would allow schools to open.

Wanderer78

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I don't know is the honest answer, don't know how many have been tested. It doesn't appear to be, but most schools closed quickly so no real baseline.

Creches should give us some idea. But 3, 13, 18 year old likely have a very different risk profile

id be very concerned with exposing kids to this, god only knows what damage it would do to them, this is a tricky one, if i had kids, id be terrified

mirrorwall14

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

Not sure what to think on this one. I was all for it, but if pubs can't open, then schools must be under threat. Kids are like young drinks, especially the smaller ones.

I think they have to try. It's not healthy for kids to not have school (or on parents sanity) and they can't stay closed forever. But then a short dose of normality and then back to closure might be as bad.

Very difficult situation all round.

Creches have been open a few weeks with no large uptick (or none attributed to creches). There should be almost two months of data on that by Sept

So maybe its just a bite the bullet approach.

Honestly, and I say this as a teacher, we can certainly open schools if we put the money in. The ONLY reason I can see for the delay and avoidance is they don’t want to fund it. I’m secondary school

Fund sanitiser In every room
Fund masks, visors and partitions for the desks at second level since our class sizes are so high
Fund classroom microphones so teachers can be heard by all when teaching through masks
Fund the building costs to knock doors into every ground floor classroom in the country which can be left open all day and used to keep corridor use to a minimum
Fund the building cost for additional sinks at the entry to the school
Pay for an analysis of each school to advise them how to be Covid compliant
Pay for panels of vetted subs (Even if they just have a degree in the subject) to be on call for illnesses as classes cannot be split and teachers will have to stay home
Pay for every curriculum to be adjusted for the coming year and the years afterwards to deal with the legacy of closures (and the possibility of more in the coming year)
Fund a full teaching portal for every subject at every level for the students who cannot attend due to pre-existing conditions
Put on extra school buses or put an adult on every bus to ensure mask compliance

That would go a hell of a long way towards getting us open and keeping so open

Then schools themselves with guidance from the department then could for example:
-stagger start and end times (yes it Might mean the first and last class times are short or long but it’s better than being at home and with curriculum adjustments students wouldn’t suffer)
-Organise for lunchtime to be staggered
-organise drop off points and lunchtime areas by group
-Maximise base class usage at second level where possible (first and second years could nearly be in their class group entirely if an alternative arrangement was put in place for options)
-organise the school by year groups eg sixth years on one corridor
-coordinate staff pods for lunches/prep periods so teachers are not all mixing
-insist on visor use and 1m distance from students as much and masks if approaching students (this means less group work but I’d prefer schools open and chalk and talk will still be better than zoom)
-form to be completed each morning by parents confirming students have no temperature and have no symptoms
-scrap uniform or go with a basic cheap generic school pants and shirt so that they can be changed daily. Uniform may be used if owned but must be washed daily
-all students wash or sanitise their hands at the entry to building
-students to carry their own small towel for hand washing
-Students need to be able to fit their books for the day in their bag and not need locker swaps as they are on top of each other. Adjustments by teachers need to be made for their requirements in each subject for this

That’s just off the top of my head. But honestly, the delay is money. Nothing more, nothing less. Every business in the country has funded changes to their business but the government are unwilling to do it

Crèches have opened with ratios FAR less than in our classrooms and following guidance like the above. You should see the restrictions and Covid regulations in my creche

All restrictions could be lifted slowly (like other countries) if we find it works

jackboy

khalessi wrote: »

The basic argument is the government need to get a workforce back in place and they couldnt manage childcare for HCW, so ignore reports about children catching it, there are been a few and just reopen schools, the best child care service and automatically you have 1.1 million children sorted between primary and secondary.

All that is fine if they put in the proper investment. Why not say ok, we need to sort the schools out so they will be closed till midterm while we fix he water problems etc and make them safe to work in during a pandemic? Just put the money in like they have elsewhere.

Schools in other countries have opened with little difficulties. We need to do the same here, open primary schools as normal, no significant changes required.

Let’s be honest, there are no plans for the schools yet, there will not be significant plans developed. So, we will either have to open as normal or stay shut.

ThunbergsAreGo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Is there much infection amongst the younger ones?

I don't know is the honest answer, don't know how many have been tested. It doesn't appear to be, but most schools closed quickly so no real baseline.

Creches should give us some idea. But 3, 13, 18 year old likely have a very different risk profile

khalessi

the corpo wrote: »

I may be wrong (usually am) but is this the first large scale study to examine transmission rates amongst children?

I don't dispute the results at all, but it just shows how unknown this all is that a potential reason for children under 10 not being so important a factor in spreading, is that they're short! And thus not exhaling at a height to reach into adult airways.
Mad, Ted.

But if it's right that children from 10+ are as contagious as adults then how can there be any argument for placing 30 plus teachers crowded together into a typical Irish sized classroom? A full return will be impossible.

The basic argument is the government need to get a workforce back in place and they couldnt manage childcare for HCW, so ignore reports about children catching it, there are been a few and just reopen schools, the best child care service and automatically you have 1.1 million children sorted between primary and secondary.

All that is fine if they put in the proper investment. Why not say ok, we need to sort the schools out so they will be closed till midterm while we fix he water problems etc and make them safe to work in during a pandemic? Just put the money in like they have elsewhere.

Wanderer78

ThunbergsAreGo wrote:

Not sure what to think on this one. I was all for it, but if pubs can't open, then schools must be under threat. Kids are like young drinks, especially the smaller ones.

Is there much infection amongst the younger ones?

ThunbergsAreGo

Not sure what to think on this one. I was all for it, but if pubs can't open, then schools must be under threat. Kids are like young drinks, especially the smaller ones.

I think they have to try. It's not healthy for kids to not have school (or on parents sanity) and they can't stay closed forever. But then a short dose of normality and then back to closure might be as bad.

Very difficult situation all round.

Creches have been open a few weeks with no large uptick (or none attributed to creches). There should be almost two months of data on that by Sept

So maybe its just a bite the bullet approach.

[Deleted User]

jlm29 wrote: »

This is so condescending.

My apologies!

the corpo

cwboy wrote: »

Older Children Spread the Coronavirus Just as Much as Adults, Large Study Finds
The study of nearly 65,000 people in South Korea suggests that school reopenings will trigger more outbreaks.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

I may be wrong (usually am) but is this the first large scale study to examine transmission rates amongst children?

I don't dispute the results at all, but it just shows how unknown this all is that a potential reason for children under 10 not being so important a factor in spreading, is that they're short! And thus not exhaling at a height to reach into adult airways.
Mad, Ted.

But if it's right that children from 10+ are as contagious as adults then how can there be any argument for placing 30 plus teachers crowded together into a typical Irish sized classroom? A full return will be impossible.

Dickie10

Redordeadqwwer wrote: »

I done a mixture of live and recorded lessons. One live class per week and recorded videos for other periods. Live class was kind of a checking in period.

I know many like yourself and say they got good results too. It all depends on your own style and the students you have. No perfect formula. Can see how some teachers just see it as a path to doing f all though. I’m relatively new to teaching so the fire is still there.

im fresh out too, i just thought with my subject they actually got more done that way. my senior classes liked it and done very well in summer exams, but i am in an academic school. still i wouldnt want to go back to that way of teaching. Im really feeling sad for the incoming first years who will see their secondary school start disrupted, i always think the first few weeks are lovely with first years settling in and getting to know them and they each other. i really look forward to that each september, particularly being a bit nosey and seeing who they are and where there from!

khalessi

Scoondal wrote: »

It seems schools and teachers should not receive constructive advice from forum members.

Scoondal, I have been a member on bords on and off since 2007 and teaching is the only job that gets mega threads where people slag it off, teacher bash, troll and are very spiteful about teaching and it all seems to centre on perceived hours and holidays.

Constructive criticism is welcome but there are some who are obvious about teacher bashing and others who coat it in eloquent phrases or subtlely like the posts of the teacher bashers and hope it isn't noticed. Since March there have been at least 6 of these threads and yet no other job gets that treatment. Never in my time on boards have I seen a career slated so much and so many people bitter about it.

Some of it has occured in the last week and can be seen by anyone who scrolls back. There have been some great suggestions put forward here by non teachers on how to improve things, or how to get schools open, but there have also been suggestions that weren't great and if a teacher disagrees or points out why it wont work , they are slagged off as inflexible. It is never considered that we may actually have relevent experience to know this.

If I gave an explanation on how to take an ABG as a nurse, I would not get 20 people jumping on me telling me I dont knwo how to do my job. Primarily because most people would not have that level of knowledge of nursing. But everyone has been in a school so feel free to jump on teachers.

You have made some good points and mentioned homeschooling as an alternative and I genuinely was interested in you doing a diary as I felt it could teach us something. But timmy mallet made my comment into something it was not, which really upset me and I reported it and nothing was done.

By all means people can criticise but dont turn an explanation of why something might not work into an attack on teachers being inflexible and then tell us what a drain we are on the tax system and that we pracitically dont work. I have worked in the private sector and also elsewhere in public and honestly teaching is tough enough without the battering I have seen on here.

Oh please dont use spelling against me I am not a typist

jlm29

Oscar Madison wrote: »

You read to them! Colour with a colouring book! Talk to them!

Working anywhere doesn't absolve you from what you should be doing anyway!

This is so condescending.

History Queen

Scoondal wrote: »

It seems schools and teachers should not receive constructive advice from forum members.

What are you basing this on?

Murple

Scoondal wrote: »

It seems schools and teachers should not receive constructive advice from forum members.

Try giving some constructive advice and then we can assess how it has been received.

Leftwaffe

Dickie10 wrote: »

i didnt do any live classes during lockdown just used email. worked well for history, its all notes and questions and reading anyway. threw up some youtube documentaarys too. wrks grand in history but science, maths , languages not a hope. wouldnt be keen on doing geography either that way.

I done a mixture of live and recorded lessons. One live class per week and recorded videos for other periods. Live class was kind of a checking in period.

I know many like yourself and say they got good results too. It all depends on your own style and the students you have. No perfect formula. Can see how some teachers just see it as a path to doing f all though. I’m relatively new to teaching so the fire is still there.

[Deleted User]

jlm29 wrote: »

I don’t need someone to blame. I don’t have a problem occupying my children. But I wouldn’t know where to start educating a junior infant. I suppose I could take a stab at getting him to fill in a few workbooks. I doubt I’d be doing him any favours though, because I’m not a teacher. They’ve gone to college and are trained to educate, not simply to “occupy children”. I could probably plod along with my 3rd class child, because he can read and write already.
But guess what. I have to go to work in a hospital, looking after the sick people, so I can’t sit down and work through schoolwork with him either.

You read to them! Colour with a colouring book! Talk to them!

Working anywhere doesn't absolve you from what you should be doing anyway!

wirelessdude01

Scoondal wrote: »

It seems schools and teachers should not receive constructive advice from forum members.

I suggest you write to the department of education with this constructive advice seeing as they seem to be unable to put together any.

jlm29

Oscar Madison wrote: »

They need someone to blame as they don't know how to occupy there children!
!

I don’t need someone to blame. I don’t have a problem occupying my children. But I wouldn’t know where to start educating a junior infant. I suppose I could take a stab at getting him to fill in a few workbooks. I doubt I’d be doing him any favours though, because I’m not a teacher. They’ve gone to college and are trained to educate, not simply to “occupy children”. I could probably plod along with my 3rd class child, because he can read and write already.
But guess what. I have to go to work in a hospital, looking after the sick people, so I can’t sit down and work through schoolwork with him either.

Scoondal

It seems schools and teachers should not receive constructive advice from forum members.

cwboy

Older Children Spread the Coronavirus Just as Much as Adults, Large Study Finds
The study of nearly 65,000 people in South Korea suggests that school reopenings will trigger more outbreaks.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Dickie10

i didnt do any live classes during lockdown just used email. worked well for history, its all notes and questions and reading anyway. threw up some youtube documentaarys too. wrks grand in history but science, maths , languages not a hope. wouldnt be keen on doing geography either that way.

downthemiddle

Scoondal wrote: »

It seems that some forum members think that all schools and all teachers should not be badly criticised on this forum. I do not think that this is acceptable on a discussion forum.

What reasonable criticism do you feel should be directed towards all schools and all teachers over the reopening of schools in September?

Leftwaffe

Im not expecting much clear guidance from the dept tbh. It will be largely left at the door of the school to sort out.

What I think we will be doing in our school is rotating the days certain year groups are in school. Teachers will remain on premises for the day. Teach those at home online when not teaching physical class group. Problem is, the dept won’t provide adequate tech for this. It’s not enough to rely on an iPad for this. Proper webcam needed.

Students with cameras off and mics muted. Hand up function in use. Random questioning from teacher to check for engagement.

I’ve just bought a new computer & monitor in the event the school gets closed and we’re working from home completely. I’ve started adapting resources for online use also (mainly because I have a bit of time on my hands coincidently).

History Queen

Scoondal wrote: »

It seems that some forum members think that all schools and all teachers should not be badly criticised on this forum. I do not think that this is acceptable on a discussion forum.

Criticism where warranted is fair enough. Criticism and the appropriation of blame where teachers/schools aren't at fault isn't fair. You, for example, were criticising your son's school for following child protection and data protection guidelines. You called me and people like me nuts for explaining that we have to follow child protection guidelines. That is unwarranted and unfounded criticism.

Criticising all for failings of a few isn't discussion.

[Deleted User]

Scoondal wrote: »

It seems that some forum members think that all schools and all teachers should not be badly criticised on this forum. I do not think that this is acceptable on a discussion forum.

They need someone to blame as they don't know how to occupy there children!

Get used to it people because this thing is here to stay!