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Opening of "No-Food" pubs pushed out again

fortwilliam

Aaaaaaaah ballax!

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0715/1153499-politics-cabinet/

I get it, I really do, but why the focus on pubs?
I got a haircut today in the Grafton Barber where a nice barber cut my hair with no social distancing (Completely within guidance)
I just don't get the focus on the boozer...

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cadaliac

PTH2009 wrote: »

Think he shot himself in the foot and the authorises will be watching him like a hawk

Its possible places will be extra vilagent regards current rules, time limits and such

Bit of a media stunt apparently by the same guy. He's literally waiting to be shut down by the cops, ready to go to the Joe Duffy show and moan about it.
No shortage of money either.
(only what I heard) I do not have a link or do I have any dealings with said person/business

Danno

GazzaL wrote: »

https://www.newstalk.com/news/pay-price-limerick-pub-open-government-advice-1047827

There's a pub in Limerick that have announced they're opening on Monday despite the delay. The owner makes a lot of fair points, and has invested heavily in preparing to re-open only to have NPHET attempt to pull the rug from under them. Hopefully they'll be well supported.

Was in the Offie tonight (attached to Pub) and the owner told me that technically there is no law stopping them opening the Pub part. Are they right?

lawrencesummers

Danno wrote: »

Was in the Offie tonight (attached to Pub) and the owner told me that technically there is no law stopping them opening the Pub part. Are they right?

There is a threat that when their licence come up for renewal this may be taken into account.

What could happen is the HSA will visit and tell him he is not being compliant, but I’m not so sure.

Personally if I had a pub I would open, with restrictions and plenty of measures in place, and not invite the national media into the decision.

road_high

cadaliac wrote: »

Bit of a media stunt apparently by the same guy. He's literally waiting to be shut down by the cops, ready to go to the Joe Duffy show and moan about it.
No shortage of money either.
(only what I heard) I do not have a link or do I have any dealings with said person/business

Why shouldn’t he take a stand and defend his livelihood and the business he’s worked hard to establish?
It’s fine for the cast of Nphet and the public service to pontificate on this one- they’re all on full salaries since March without suppliers etc to pay

PhilOssophy

road_high wrote: »

Why shouldn’t he take a stand and defend his livelihood and the business he’s worked hard to establish?
It’s fine for the cast of Nphet and the public service to pontificate on this one- they’re all on full salaries since March without suppliers etc to pay

If everybody had taken that stance over the last 5 months where would we be? Probably similar to the US or Italy at the time.

The publicans are one of the most self-entitled group of whingers in this country. Plenty of people lost their job in a heart beat and there wasn't a word, and still haven't re-started, so apologies if I am not getting out the violin for him if he thinks the rules don't apply to him.

ShamNNspace

cadaliac wrote: »

Bit of a media stunt apparently by the same guy. He's literally waiting to be shut down by the cops, ready to go to the Joe Duffy show and moan about it.
No shortage of money either.
(only what I heard) I do not have a link or do I have any dealings with said person/business

And what about that all important reelin in the years appearance repeated for ever and ever

Tenzor07

lawrencesummers wrote: »

There is a threat that when their licence come up for renewal this may be taken into account.
What could happen is the HSA will visit and tell him he is not being compliant, but I’m not so sure.
Personally if I had a pub I would open, with restrictions and plenty of measures in place, and not invite the national media into the decision.

This is the problem, all the pubs both food and non-food should have opened at the same time, with the increased hygiene standards in place, the HSE could have sent inspectors around the various establishments at random with the power to close down a pub temporarily where complete lack of increased safety measures were being observed..
No point having the Gards go around and threaten the Pub licence, a court hearing/review on the licence could take a year with the massive backlogs in the court...
All this non-€9 and €9 pub opening is the epitome of mixed messaging, either open them all or close them all...

PhilOssophy

Tenzor07 wrote: »

This is the problem, all the pubs both food and non-food should have opened at the same time, with the increased hygiene standards in place, the HSE could have sent inspectors around the various establishments at random with the power to close down a pub temporarily where complete lack of increased safety measures were being observed..
No point having the Gards go around and threaten the Pub licence, a court hearing/review on the licence could take a year with the massive backlogs in the court...
All this non-€9 and €9 pub opening is the epitome of mixed messaging, either open them all or close them all...

Agree with the general theme that they should either all have opened or not. You can't police "increase hygiene" though. It is too vague. "Of course I cleaned the toilet an hour ago" when it hasn't been cleaned in 3 days.

The pubs are closed because of human behaviour and there isn't really any standard for that.

Tenzor07

PhilOssophy wrote: »

Agree with the general theme that they should either all have opened or not. You can't police "increase hygiene" though. It is too vague. "Of course I cleaned the toilet an hour ago" when it hasn't been cleaned in 3 days.
The pubs are closed because of human behaviour and there isn't really any standard for that.

Well you'd easily be able to imagine what that entails, no bar service or at least widely spaced barstools and a specific area for ordering at the bar with perspex screen and single line que spaced for social distance, reduced indoor seating, increased outdoor seats where possible, staff santising touch points regularly, and a traffic light system for the jacks... it's not rocket science, it can be done to make sure food and non food bars can open... Any of these measures not in place can mean a temporary shutdown pending a re-inspection.
Any messers can be shown the door....

And pubs are open... just food ones.

Richard Hillman

Went to a ruralish pub earlier and asked if we had to buy food but they wouldn't play ball. Walked up the road to another pub and they were no at first but we said we were only having 1 drink and heading, so they they let us.

It is just baffling to think that we are somehow safer by having a plate of chips and goujons on the table with our pints. It is an abuse of power from NPHET in their push to attack our drinking culture. Absolutely nothing to do with Covid. Zip.

Risteard81

road_high wrote: »

Why shouldn’t he take a stand and defend his livelihood and the business he’s worked hard to establish?
It’s fine for the cast of Nphet and the public service to pontificate on this one- they’re all on full salaries since March without suppliers etc to pay

Their actions - and those of the politicians giving them this undeserved power - is nothing short of totalitarian and, indeed, Treasonous. And enforced wearing of masks is also totalitarian.

listermint

Richard Hillman wrote: »

Went to a ruralish pub earlier and asked if we had to buy food but they wouldn't play ball. Walked up the road to another pub and they were no at first but we said we were only having 1 drink and heading, so they they let us.

It is just baffling to think that we are somehow safer by having a plate of chips and goujons on the table with our pints. It is an abuse of power from NPHET in their push to attack our drinking culture. Absolutely nothing to do with Covid. Zip.

Wouldn't play ball what ?

PTH2009

Place im in the same people sitting at tables since i arrived 2 hours ago and still getting served. Everyone keeping to their groups no hugging and all that

freak scence

PTH2009 wrote: »

Place im in the same people sitting at tables since i arrived 2 hours ago and still getting served. Everyone keeping to their groups no hugging and all that

any riding going on

PTH2009

freak scence wrote: »

any riding going on

Don't think so nor do I care ha

3 more weeks til a bit of normality too pub life but ya now the government will block openings once again citing help official advice

freak scence

PhilOssophy wrote: »

If everybody had taken that stance over the last 5 months where would we be? Probably similar to the US or Italy at the time.

The publicans are one of the most self-entitled group of whingers in this country. Plenty of people lost their job in a heart beat and there wasn't a word, and still haven't re-started, so apologies if I am not getting out the violin for him if he thinks the rules don't apply to him.

they closed first voluntarily, you are the one doing the most whingeing

John O.Groats

Risteard81 wrote: »

Their actions - and those of the politicians giving them this undeserved power - is nothing short of totalitarian and, indeed, Treasonous. And enforced wearing of masks is also totalitarian.

Treasonous and totalitarian? WTF are you rambling on about?

rubadub

Richard Hillman wrote: »

It is just baffling to think that we are somehow safer by having a plate of chips and goujons on the table with our pints. It is an abuse of power from NPHET in their push to attack our drinking culture. Absolutely nothing to do with Covid. Zip.

Do you seriously not see the logic behind why they were going to allow restaurants open before pubs?

have you seriously never heard the phrase "eating is cheating"?

Richard Hillman

listermint wrote: »

Wouldn't play ball what ?

We had to buy a substantial meal to protect us from the Coronavirus

beggars_bush

rubadub wrote: »

Do you seriously not see the logic behind why they were going to allow restaurants open before pubs?

have you seriously never heard the phrase "eating is cheating"?

You can regulate the booking and cleaning of tables much easier with food involved

A huge issue is that in our local town the majority of pubs don't serve food.

PTH2009

Could they turn around and close the food pubs ?

freak scence

PTH2009 wrote: »

Could they turn around and close the food pubs ?

hairdressers are the problem

Benimar

Richard Hillman wrote: »

We had to buy a substantial meal to protect us from the Coronavirus

Or, to put it another way, the premises adhered to the conditions on which it was allowed open.

Imagine if they all did that, and showed they could be trusted to adhere to the guidelines if allowed open as wet pubs again!

freak scence

Benimar wrote: »

Or, to put it another way, the premises adhered to the conditions on which it was allowed open.

Imagine if they all did that, and showed they could be trusted to adhere to the guidelines if allowed open as wet pubs again!

they aren't wet pubs so what are you going on about ?

mountgomery burns

murpho999 wrote: »

OK, but it doesn't make it right does it?

I'd say they'll get caught eventually.

I think this is very naive right, but as an aside if you did think this was true and that people that flouted restrictions would be caught then what necessitates the meal in pubs and keeping those that don't serve food closed in theory?

If they mandated that all of them do table service only, no intermingling of groups, strict sanitation and hygiene requirements, surely that sort of controlled environment would be enough to open any pub that deemed it viable to operate with such a reduced capacity?

And if as you say all flouting guidelines were caught and closed, what would be the issue?

As I said, I know for a fact that this is not the reality. There are pubs masquerading as "gastropubs", not adhering to time limits and indeed some are even being frequented by those supposedly policing them. I would say the majority though are still in compliance for the most part however. But seeing those that aren't complying must be all the more galling for those that are shuttered. It's a matter of enforcement at the end of the day.

The big problem I have with it is those that have been compliant from day one are the ones who are most likely to be closed right now. Ones that would implement guidelines if they had any available to them. They are being unduly punished, with low prevalance of the virus and no tieback to outbreaks as a result of pubs or restaurants opening that we've been made aware of.

And then the politicians turned around to justify it by saying schools need to be prioritized, which I think shows a lot of contempt for the pub owners suggesting that their businesses but children's education at risk when they've not even been given the chance to operate safely.

It's a weird position to me given they haven't posited the same regarding cinemas (no time limits), gyms (haven't been in one and will avoid like the plague until this ends), swimming pools which are settings which you could make a strong case pose a similar level of risk.

Furthermore on that point, they've delayed it until the 10th of August but schools don't open until September so what realistic chance is there that they open on that date? They've not been given any clear advice on what will need to happen really for them to open. I can totally understand why some would be fuming or despairing right now and I think they've every right to be.

Benimar

freak scence wrote: »

they aren't wet pubs so what are you going on about ?

Exactly. They are operating as restaurants, so were right to insist on food being purchased. The OP seemed a bit put out by this for some reason.

However, if what people are posting here is to believed, some places are ignoring this and not making people buy food.

Then they wonder why people don’t trust pubs to follow guidelines if allowed to open.

mountgomery burns

Just as an aside I really hate that phrase "wet pubs".

rubadub

beggars_bush wrote: »

You can regulate the booking and cleaning of tables much easier with food involved

A huge issue is that in our local town the majority of pubs don't serve food.

I don't understand why the booking or cleaning is easier? if anything there will be food waste on the table or floor which may be a bit harder to clean.

Pubs were not meant to be open. Newsagents and food shops were open even before restaurants. If a load of pubs were doubled up as newsagents and asked if they would be allowed to open then I doubt people would have complained about not being able to be served drink while getting their paper.

The pubs are open as restaurants and so abide by those laws. These are not new laws. If you search irishstatutebook I can see references to substantial meals with alcohol going back to 1952 and possibly 1904. I think it quite a smart law and we are not the only country to have laws like this.

Many restaurants are allowed open in places where there is not a hope of a pub getting permission. For those who think it is ridiculous or illogical I wonder what law they would put in place if they were in charge? i.e. a law to distinguish between restaurants and pubs.

It also comes into this law.
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/justice/criminal_law/criminal_offences/alcohol_and_the_law.html

Children aged between 15 and 17 years may remain on the premises after 9pm where they are attending a private function at which a substantial meal is served. All licensed premises must display a sign to this effect in a prominent place at all times and failure to do so can result in a fine.

marilynrr

Why did they not say food establishments could open but they couldn't serve alcohol

I can't understand why they let the ones who can serve food also serve alcohol, but didn't let the other pubs open.

I personally can see why pubs will need to stay shut given the timeline. Children going back to school is going to have to be a priority.

As for policing house parties and so on. I don't agree with that. We all did our bit during the initial lockdown, rules dictating people living their personal lives cannot go on forever, they might be able to control businesses opening and so on but as far as many people are concerned, the government have no right to dictate how many people they have in their own homes. The government have lost all credibility and respect now due to letting tourists in.

I also disagree with the people saying gyms etc. shouldn't have been allowed to open if pubs aren't allowed. We should not be banning things that encourage physical wellness.

Mrsmum

Last night my neighbour's teenage daughter had a party. 20 -30 young people in a tiny garden and when it rained, indoors. Dancing, laughing, shouting, singing. Tonight two doors up a teenage boy seems to be having a party as well. Meanwhile in the little village I'm originally from the two pubs are shut. You wouldn't get five customers in either of them on a normal night, a few men hardly saying a word up at the bar. I really think if pubs like that aren't safe to open, house parties should be banned too.