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How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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History Queen

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Anyone any idea what working parents are going to do when the schools don't reopen in September?

If schools don't go back I want a reduction in taxes I pay for education.

Schools and education will continue in some shape or form. Unfortunately none of us can say what shape that will take as there has been no real information from the Department as regards how it will happen. The sooner we (teachers/schools) get information on what measures have to be followed, the sooner we can get stuck in to planning, the more effective the education is likely to be.

morebabies

[Deleted User] wrote: »

As long as you’ve got NPHET finger wagging on TV that there’ll potentially be 150 cases a day soon and public health advise is that pubs are not safe... I don’t see parents sending their kids to school, regardless of whether they’re open or not.

Just out of interest, if schools reopen fully with hand sanitisers, PPE for teachers but in the middle of a surge in cases, would parents on here send their kids back to school? I understand some parents would have no choice re: work.

I personally wouldn't, but that's to do with my own ability to work from home and also having asthmatics in our house.

downthemiddle

arctictree wrote: »

Nothing to stop my wife taking 10 kids and teaching them for a morning.

Let us know how that works out.

Jinglejangle69

Anyone any idea what working parents are going to do when the schools don't reopen in September?

If schools don't go back I want a reduction in taxes I pay for education.

[Deleted User]

As long as you’ve got NPHET finger wagging on TV that there’ll potentially be 150 cases a day soon and public health advise is that pubs are not safe... I don’t see parents sending their kids to school, regardless of whether they’re open or not.

Leftwaffe

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And here you have it folks, the most basic and clear example ever seen on this thread of someone who doesn't understand how vetting and/or school works. Just a form, sure I can add, sure kids will just work together.

It sounds so easy. Maybe this guy could revolutionise the profession!

wirelessdude01

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Garda clearance is basically an application form and that's it. The parents may not be good at teaching but Garda clearance shouldn't be an issue.

I was thinking the same myself. I'm pretty good at math and it would be easier teaching a bunch of primary school kids than one child as the children work together. If the schools are closed it sounds like a good alternative, especially for families living in cities, maybe two parents could teach at the same time for child safety?

And here you have it folks, the most basic and clear example ever seen on this thread of someone who doesn't understand how vetting and/or school works. Just a form, sure I can add, sure kids will just work together.

Infini

I'll be honest if schools do open I only expect 3rd, 5th and 6th years in secondary to be going back at most if at all, it's likely a 2nd wave might put the dampening on thing's and could even delay reopening into October or even November.

khalessi

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Garda clearance is basically an application form and that's it. The parents may not be good at teaching but Garda clearance shouldn't be an issue.

I was thinking the same myself. I'm pretty good at math and it would be easier teaching a bunch of primary school kids than one child as the children work together. If the schools are closed it sounds like a good alternative, especially for families living in cities, maybe two parents could teach at the same time for child safety?

Garda clearance is not just a form, it is a method of finding out if a person has a criminal record which would prevent them working in certain areas, like with children. You make it sound like it is a minor inconvenience to be gone through.

Secondly, if the schools are closed for health reasons and to maintain distancing, why do you think it is ok to go against health advice and gather in groups to teach children in a GAA hall? They're closed to prevent the spreading of infection.

Thirdly, just because it is a bunch of children that are carrying out the same maths does not mean they will work together, they will all have different levels of understanding and concentration levels. They might not be even on the same level if in the same class. I just taught 6th class last year and the level I was teaching ranged from 1st class to 6th class in one group.

Lillyfae

mcsean2163 wrote: »

I was thinking the same myself. I'm pretty good at math and it would be easier teaching a bunch of primary school kids than one child as the children work together. If the schools are closed it sounds like a good alternative, especially for families living in cities, maybe two parents could teach at the same time for child safety?

But if you could do that why wouldn’t the schools open??

Comparatively speaking, if a solution isn’t found that supports them not going back to school and the schools can’t open, then this generation of children will most likely feel it for a very long time.

namloc1980

mcsean2163 wrote: »

Garda clearance is basically an application form and that's it. The parents may not be good at teaching but Garda clearance shouldn't be an issue.

It isn't that simple. The National Vetting Bureau does not do vetting for individuals on a personal basis, its statutory basis is to vet people for registered organisations. It's literally on their webpage "Garda vetting is conducted on behalf of registered organisations only and is not conducted for individual persons on a personal basis." If these parents want to go teaching they'd have to set up and become a registered organisation with the Vetting Bureau and then get the proposed "teachers" vetted. Throw in data protection issues, insurance, a host of other issues and lack of teaching knowledge/skills and I'm not sure it would be worth the inevitable hassle.

mcsean2163

Lillyfae wrote: »

Add to that it’s basically school, except in the GAA hall.

Garda clearance is basically an application form and that's it. The parents may not be good at teaching but Garda clearance shouldn't be an issue.

I was thinking the same myself. I'm pretty good at math and it would be easier teaching a bunch of primary school kids than one child as the children work together. If the schools are closed it sounds like a good alternative, especially for families living in cities, maybe two parents could teach at the same time for child safety?

combat14

ben dunne closes gyms to save lives.. puts opening schools in perspective.. worth a read...

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/id-rather-go-bust-than-bury-customers-ben-dunne-closes-gyms-doors-until-vaccine-or-treatment-for-covid-19-found-39376231.html

jlm29

NelRom wrote: »

You're right, sorry about that- it was coloured by previous posters coming up with all the reasons it couldn't happen which I see as inflexible.
So, you are talking about the building and infrastructure rather than people? This is what I mean by workarounds, perhaps a school in a different area would have to help you with online content and availability and then your school contributes in different ways.
Again these are just suggestions, I am just in the camp of 'if school doesn't go back- what can we do to teach' and the answer can't be more of what we had before the holidays.

A lot of the reasons are very valid though, not inflexible. Whatever happens needs to be fair and consistent. I’m not a teacher, I’m a parent, and I could give you multiple reasons why online teaching is just not really going to work for us next year.

ginoginelli

Theres not a hope in hell schools will be able to go back at full capacity in September. Formulating an online system should be prioritized now. At least the kids will get some type of education then for next year.

wirelessdude01

NelRom wrote: »

You're right, sorry about that- it was coloured by previous posters coming up with all the reasons it couldn't happen which I see as inflexible.
So, you are talking about the building and infrastructure rather than people? This is what I mean by workarounds, perhaps a school in a different area would have to help you with online content and availability and then your school contributes in different ways.
Again these are just suggestions, I am just in the camp of 'if school doesn't go back- what can we do to teach' and the answer can't be more of what we had before the holidays.

Schools generally don't work together. Now with this you could maybe see the ETBs or ET school organisations coming out with something but as a general rule each school it doesn't occur.

I'll keep going back to how we are still waiting on the department. The structure has to come from them and then we can plan and adapt to suit our own unique school setting and environment.

NelRom

lulublue22 wrote: »

I have no idea where you are getting lack of flexibility from ? or is it that because in your opinion it would work very well for your children and those that you know that you feel it’s applicable in all school contexts ? There are schools out there that are not your typical primary school - yes they are a minority but they do exist. So when I say it would not work in my school context I mean it would not work in my school context not that our staff are too inflexible to implement it.

You're right, sorry about that- it was coloured by previous posters coming up with all the reasons it couldn't happen which I see as inflexible.
So, you are talking about the building and infrastructure rather than people? This is what I mean by workarounds, perhaps a school in a different area would have to help you with online content and availability and then your school contributes in different ways.
Again these are just suggestions, I am just in the camp of 'if school doesn't go back- what can we do to teach' and the answer can't be more of what we had before the holidays.

lulublue22

NelRom wrote: »

No, they are not, but as many workarounds will have to be found as possible if the schools do not re-open. Any actual teaching is better than none.

Most private sector contracts state that your duties may change, your work may require travel etc.
Do teaching contracts not call out a need for flexibility?

I have no idea where you are getting lack of flexibility from ? or is it that because in your opinion it would work very well for your children and those that you know that you feel it’s applicable in all school contexts ? There are schools out there that are not your typical primary school - yes they are a minority but they do exist. So when I say it would not work in my school context I mean it would not work in my school context not that our staff are too inflexible to implement it.

NelRom

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’m sure it worked very well but in our school context it wouldn’t have. I think thats a major difficulty - not all schools are carbon copies of each other.

No, they are not, but as many workarounds will have to be found as possible if the schools do not re-open. Any actual teaching is better than none.

Most private sector contracts state that your duties may change, your work may require travel etc.
Do teaching contracts not call out a need for flexibility?

Deeec

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I taught live lessons to my primary class during lockdown. It can be done but will not work for all. I teach in an affluent area and broadband access is good, devices are plentiful (and behavioural issues are rare). That's not the case in many schools.

I will say that teaching and learning was effective - we did English, Irish and Maths online with a little homework set for offline - and the routine/social interaction was good for the children. However if that were rolled out across the country it would disadvantage children who don't come from similar privileged backgrounds.

Well done - it sounds like you done a brilliant job. I would have loved if similar was done by my Childrens school. We too live in quite an affluent area where technology and broadband is no issue - yet no effort was put in by the principle. It sounds like the right mix of work. I would even settle for recorded lessons instead of live. My children just got one email per week -To them it was like their teachers had vanished

lulublue22

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Oh when we return to school livestreaming lessons from the classroom wouldn't work. Apart from anything else it wouldn't be all that engaging for those sitting at home, I doubt they'd learn much.

For shutdown times the live lessons worked fine. Wouldn't class it as equal to face to face teaching but it worked well considering all the restrictions. Again though that was in my specific school and it would have been disastrous in others.

I’m sure it worked very well but in our school context it wouldn’t have. I think thats a major difficulty - not all schools are carbon copies of each other.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I taught live lessons to my primary class during lockdown. It can be done but will not work for all. I teach in an affluent area and broadband access is good, devices are plentiful (and behavioural issues are rare). That's not the case in many schools.

I will say that teaching and learning was effective - we did English, Irish and Maths online with a little homework set for offline - and the routine/social interaction was good for the children. However if that were rolled out across the country it would disadvantage children who don't come from similar privileged backgrounds.

I wish my child's teacher had made such an effort, sounds like you did a really great job.

I think kids would be more inclined to do the work if they can still see you (the teacher) and its group based (still see classmates).

Seems like a better option than mammy or daddy sitting at the table wondering where it all went wrong

Lillyfae

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The parents would require Garda clearance . I can’t see many parents happy to have their child taken off site and supervised by someone who isn’t a teacher .

Add to that it’s basically school, except in the GAA hall.

BonsaiKitten

lulublue22 wrote: »

I have a lot of children with various special needs including behavior and I would be very concerned re the child’s right to privacy and dignity being maintained if live lessons were mandatory. Peers are very accepting and forgiving. I’m not sure a child’s struggles to grasp concepts needs to be broadcast to every parent in the class.

Oh when we return to school livestreaming lessons from the classroom wouldn't work. Apart from anything else it wouldn't be all that engaging for those sitting at home, I doubt they'd learn much.

For shutdown times the live lessons worked fine. Wouldn't class it as equal to face to face teaching but it worked well considering all the restrictions. Again though that was in my specific school and it would have been disastrous in others.

lulublue22

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

I taught live lessons to my primary class during lockdown. It can be done but will not work for all. I teach in an affluent area and broadband access is good, devices are plentiful (and behavioural issues are rare). That's not the case in many schools.

I will say that teaching and learning was effective - we did English, Irish and Maths online with a little homework set for offline - and the routine/social interaction was good for the children. However if that were rolled out across the country it would disadvantage children who don't come from similar privileged backgrounds.

I have a lot of children with various special needs including behavior and I would be very concerned re the child’s right to privacy and dignity being maintained if live lessons were mandatory. Peers are very accepting and forgiving. I’m not sure a child’s struggles to grasp concepts and or meltdowns needs to be broadcast to every parent in the class.

lulublue22

FC1 wrote: »

It sounds like you were dealing with very unreasonable people. It was not your fault if they did not find the time to watch the content. I get your frustration.

Not really though. In my experience parents base their expectations on their own personal experience ie work situation, siblings etc and then generalise this as the “best” practice without realising that you can’t generalise across 30 children. Couple that with a genuine lack of understanding re differentiation - not all children learn the same or at the same rate and online learning is a disaster at primary level. I for one would hate to go back to online learning in Sep. It was very stressful - trying to accommodate as many different situations as possible while keeping my own two on track was bloody hard. Though I will say my parents were appreciative especially the longer the shutdown went on.

BonsaiKitten

Mrsmum wrote: »

I don't have children at Primary level anymore but just wondering did people find the RTE hub classes any use and could they be expanded as a better or more serious teaching tool, like properly doing the alphabet with small kids or teaching a history/georg/maths lesson ?

For what it was I thought the Hub was good. Very difficult to cater to all those class levels in one TV show! If we did shut down again I think the Hub could be a good way to cover SESE work. Have a specific programme for 1st/2nd, another 3rd/4th etc and then do a little bit of simple History, Geography or Science for each daily. Perhaps some Art too?

BonsaiKitten

I taught live lessons to my primary class during lockdown. It can be done but will not work for all. I teach in an affluent area and broadband access is good, devices are plentiful (and behavioural issues are rare). That's not the case in many schools.

I will say that teaching and learning was effective - we did English, Irish and Maths online with a little homework set for offline - and the routine/social interaction was good for the children. However if that were rolled out across the country it would disadvantage children who don't come from similar privileged backgrounds.

mirrorwall14

jrosen wrote: »

Im not saying its perfect. Im saying the feedback from parents were positive. They felt it was an acceptable solution.

There was also a secondary school in Naas that did on line classes for every subject every day. Im not sure how but the kids could ask questions as the class went along. Again feedback from another parent I know.

Our school (secondary) followed the full timetable with combinations of work set, prerecorded lessons and live classes. As one (of the many) who had no childcare for the lockdown I prerecorded/set my classes and was available Practically all the time for comments/email responses. I did manage some live classes (the pressure was huge from management and precedent set by other teachers who were running their full timetable live) with my exam classes mostly but attendance wasn’t good.

Pre Easter the vast majority of students were engaged and submitted work. After Easter it was pretty awful, maybe 1/3-1/2 students at most?
And the paper work trying to follow up was insane. We had to yearbook students on a continuous basis who were missing deadlines

byhookorbycrook

arctictree wrote: »

There is talk in my locality of some parents implementing a rota where they teach a specific class each day of the week in a rented building (GAA or local hall or something). I suppose life moves on ...

The parents would require Garda clearance . I can’t see many parents happy to have their child taken off site and supervised by someone who isn’t a teacher .