Bit cynical wrote: » But since no evidence has so far been supplied that Sweden has been massaging their numbers, what you are saying is that if the official statistics supplied by Sweden are correct, then Sweden's science-based approach has been the right one.
bob mcbob wrote: » Have you seen the 7 day average number of new cases for Sweden on worldometers recently? It peaked at 1123 on the 29th June. Since then the number of new daily cases has fallen off a cliff and now stands at 319.https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/sweden/ Something is happening because as far as I am aware Sweden has not changed their stance on lockdown.
greyday wrote: » If the figures are believed then Yes, the gamble is paying off.
SeaBreezes wrote: » Apart from all the deaths so far, and assuming thry have herd immunity now as economically the gamble didnt pay off.
KindOfIrish wrote: » People who are skeptical of Sweden figures are idiots. It's one one of the most transparent and non corrupted countries in the world. Sweden approach of dealing with COVID has been right from the beginning and the next 2-3 years will prove it. Unfortunately they were the only country in Western World who has not fallen to "pandemic" hysteria. Since the beginning of COVID madness my respect for Sweden politicians and people has been growing exponentially!
15 July 2020 Dedicare (DEDI: SS), a Swedish staffing firm, reported revenue for the second quarter ending 30 June 2020 of SEK 216.5 million (€20.9 million), an uptick of 10.7% compared with the same period last year.
greyday wrote: » Yes Either they are not counting the deaths the same way as other Countries or the political fallout from being so out of kilter with their neighbours necessitated they massaging the figures downwards. Unless the virus burns out as some have speculated but which there is no evidence of happening as yet. Someone might be able to explain how their death rate could fall so much when they have not obeyed the light restrictions which were implemented, there does not seem to be any conceivable reason the death rate could reduce unless the population strictly obeyed the advise given on social distancing or they got to a position of close to herd immunity which seems unlikely if the percentages required to be infected was correct.
cnocbui wrote: » It will be very interesting to see the second quarter GDP results. Ericsson just beat estimates, and a Swedish staffing company is up 10.7% on the same time last year.
the incredible pudding wrote: » Well the numbers in the ICUs has dropped drastically, additionally the ability / knowledge of how to treat infected has improved a lot due to global efforts. There was a clear and obvious peak and the trend has been moving downward since that peak. I don't see how it's that hard to understand, the graph has been very clear for a long time. It's just been a much more gradual decline than other countries which have mostly made the curve drop off far more drastically by imposing a lockdown. I think the holidays are making the very recent numbers look a little lower right now but they'll be addressed in time and it should continue to show a slow downward trend that won't drop to 0 any time soon I feel. The number of cases is a strange one, as i mentioned before, about a month ago they offered free testing for people. It was hugely subscibed to people (the application crashed and slots were booked out for weeks) and thus huge spikes in numbers were recorded. It's now fairly easy to get a slot (or have one sent to your home) so it would seem that the demand has been squashed somewhat. I don't believe the figures are being messed with. There isn't really much of an incentive here, it's kind of notorious in Sweden how people don't really get blamed a huge deal for those types of mistakes, you own it, analyse it and try to do better. It's different if it's a personal failing to your social responsibility like dodging tax or littering! I still think it'll only be in a year or two that we see the strategy was a complete failure, minor failure or semi-reasonable thing to do. It's already been a partial failure in my mind due to how they completely messed up when they didn't legally enforce measures to protect people in nursing homes. Protect the workers' wages, don't let them go in sick and provide them with the necessary protective equipment. They shouldn't have just advised the private businesses to do so. I think they also completely failed the migrant communities (their deaths are hugely over represented in the statistics)
Sconsey wrote: » Ericsson results have not much to do with the Swedish economy, they are a multinational company, it looks like higer than expected sales in China are the main conrtibutor....https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0717/1153878-ericsson-quarterly-results/
KindOfIrish wrote: » People who are skeptical of Sweden figures are idiots. It's one one of the most transparent and non corrupted countries in the world. Sweden approach of dealing with COVID has been right from the beginning and the next 2-3 years will prove it.
KindOfIrish wrote: » Unfortunately they were the only country in Western World who has not fallen to "pandemic" hysteria. Since the beginning of COVID madness my respect for Sweden politicians and people has been growing exponentially!
greyday wrote: » How do you explain infections rising and deaths dropping? I read articles recently where people looking after the elderly complained that they were not being allowed in to hospitals, its easy to see ICU numbers drop if that is what has happened. Do you have an explanation why deaths dropped in the absence of restrictions? On your final paragraph, it seems like the vast majority of Countries failed the elderly in care homes.
the incredible pudding wrote: » I explained the spikes in infections - they changed testing.
Bit cynical wrote: » To illustrate: Up to around 1st April, the curve most likely reflected actual inflections. Then we hit a limit due to testing. Infections continued to rise but the graph is flat. Then around the beginning of June they greatly increased testing and so we get higher but still flat line. This continued until the end of month when numbers had sufficiently fallen that infections started to be reflected again in daily cases. The actual peak in infections probably occurred a couple of weeks before the peak in daily deaths - maybe mid-April or thereabouts. What we see in the graph above is a highly truncated version of reality.
greyday wrote: » I should change my username to sceptical, It seems the Swedes like to take the month of July off for holidays which coincides with drop off in deaths and infections from Covid....
Bit cynical wrote: » I would not agree with that or at least I would expect the holiday effect to be small. There has been a general downward trend in daily deaths since April. Of course they could still be faking all the numbers but I think evidence would need to be provided in that case.
greyday wrote: » I doubt they faked all the numbers, possibly just when they deviated so far from their neighbours, I have been reading that a very high number of swedes take holidays from July 1st with police stations and hospitals even closing down.
the incredible pudding wrote: » I'd love a link to that! I can imagine there being some shortages and my own workplace definitely has larger long term absentees than normal but we're expected to have people available to cover in key areas (you're legally allowed to take 4 consecutive weeks in between June and August). Restaurants or Cafés might close, maybe even small clinics but I can't imagine vital public services being totally shut.
the incredible pudding wrote: » I've never taken the infection rate as a useful metric here though, which is a real pity. The ICU numbers have been though - at Stockholm's peak it was at 230 for corona, now it's at 17.
Boggles wrote: » To be fair the Swedes have done "remarkably well". They looked at their social structures and how the population behaves and they thought they could get away with it. I don't think there is many countries that could have tried what they did and had such an outcome. But they need to realize there is absolutely no way they can continue you this into winter, the sun rises at 9 and sets at 3. They need to accept their folly and change tactics or 1000s more will just die needlessly, the mental strain on the elderly there must be off the charts.
99nsr125 wrote: » Nobody's life is going to be saved you're just extending the pain and destroying everyone's lfe because it's a reality you are incapable of accepting.
greyday wrote: » We should all be put to sleep when we are born by that logic, that would be extremely efficient while what you are advocating is a mass cull of the elderly because they are going to die anyway, classy.
Boggles wrote: » Well aren't you a ray of sunshine.
