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COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures Megathread [Mod Warning - Post #1]

Masala

Today being Paddy Day 2020... when do you think we will have a ‘flu jab’ / pill / syrup that we can take to make us immune/ les likely to catch this 19 virus?.

Mod: The purpose of this thread is baked into the title - COVID-19: Vaccine/antidote and testing procedures - it's not a platform to push an anti vaccination agenda. If posters wish to discuss the perceived cons of vaccinations, or push various theories regarding 'the agenda' (whatever that is supposed to mean), open a thread elsewhere on it.

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Away With The Fairies

I wasn't following things on the vaccine front because I thought it would be a long time yet. But the Oxford vaccine might be here sooner than what I thought, hoping it all goes well.

But I have no idea about getting it. I'm not an anti vaxxer but just how they rushed the swine flu vaccine. But I know not taking a vaccine as well is very dangerous as well.

Is there anywhere I can see how phase 1 and 2 of the trails went?

Hmmzis

Diarmuid wrote: »

How widespread is this view and I presume the implications for a vaccine would be grave?
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/07/06/immunity-to-coronavirus-is-fragile-and-short-lived-expert-warns.html

It's a strong argument against "just letting it burn through the population". There is no doubt that there is at least short term protection from a natural infection. How long/short that is exactly, that's still a question to be answered.

What it means for a vaccine? Depends.
A vaccine is not a natural infection. Contrary to a natural infection, it doesn't suppress aspects of the immune system. A vaccine tries to elicit a response, as strong as it's safely possible, for example, by presenting an inactivated virus to the immune system along with an adjuvant (read irritant) so that it treats that bundle of proteins as a threat and starts producing specific antibodies, T cells, B cells and other things to fight it off. There are various ways, other than inactivated virus, to try and get that same effect - sub-unit, viral vector, attenuated virus, mRNA, saRNA, DNA, virus-like particle, etc.

The starkest example of this is Rabies. Humans cannot fight off that virus, our immune systems are ineffective in the case of a natural infection with it. Yet, by presenting a dead form of the same virus in a vaccine, our bodies are perfectly capable of producing an effective immune response that protects us from the wild type virus.

Similar, but far less lethal, the case of Human Papillomavirus (HPV), it sneaks past our immune system and there is little to no reaction to it during a natural infection and what little reaction to there is, it's not very good at protecting us. Yet, with a well designed vaccine, the protection is very robust and long lasting. The HPV VLP vaccine produces very stable antibody responses.

Here is a fascinating article about how different vaccines work on us:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019/04/how-long-do-vaccines-last-surprising-answers-may-help-protect-people-longer

hmmm

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Is there anywhere I can see how phase 1 and 2 of the trails went?

I don't remember seeing data yet from Phase 1, but they've moved into phase 2/3 so obviously enough was seen in phase 1 to say it was safe and at least partially effective - they are testing 30,000 people in phase 3, it is hugely expensive.

The animal trials data was released
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.093195v1

Some data on the Phases:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-05-22-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-begin-phase-iiiii-human-trials

What is particularly interesting about Oxford is that it is a platform they have been developing for years to target SARS-like Coronaviruses. Below is data for their MERS vaccine which was being developed before Covid arrived:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/investigational-chimp-adenovirus-mers-cov-vaccine-protects-monkeys

Away With The Fairies

hmmm wrote: »

I don't remember seeing data yet from Phase 1, but they've moved into phase 2/3 so obviously enough was seen in phase 1 to say it was safe and at least partially effective - they are testing 30,000 people in phase 3, it is hugely expensive.

The animal trials data was released
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.093195v1

Some data on the Phases:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-05-22-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-begin-phase-iiiii-human-trials

What is particularly interesting about Oxford is that it is a platform they have been developing for years to target SARS-like Coronaviruses. Below is data for their MERS vaccine which was being developed before Covid arrived:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/investigational-chimp-adenovirus-mers-cov-vaccine-protects-monkeys

Thanks for that hmmm.

irishgeo

Any vaccine surely is going to be rolled out to
Older people
Vulnerable people
Healthcare workers
The rest of us.

That's going to take a long time so the 2 years sounds about right.

padser

hmmm wrote: »

I don't remember seeing data yet from Phase 1, but they've moved into phase 2/3 so obviously enough was seen in phase 1 to say it was safe and at least partially effective - they are testing 30,000 people in phase 3, it is hugely expensive.

The animal trials data was released
https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.05.13.093195v1

Some data on the Phases:
https://www.ox.ac.uk/news/2020-05-22-oxford-covid-19-vaccine-begin-phase-iiiii-human-trials

What is particularly interesting about Oxford is that it is a platform they have been developing for years to target SARS-like Coronaviruses. Below is data for their MERS vaccine which was being developed before Covid arrived:
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/investigational-chimp-adenovirus-mers-cov-vaccine-protects-monkeys

Phase I clinical trials are not about effectiveness.

They are basically about giving a treatment to about a dozen healthy individuals to check it doesnt kill or significantly injure.

Getting through Phase I means nothing eith regards to effectiveness - if basically just means the treatment isnt extremely dangerous to humans.....

Edit- from the link it looks like Phase I had 1000 people which is a lot for phase I which is a lot - but still same principal.

SwordofLight

Hi,

Went through the stickied posts and couldn't see anything.

I've phoned a few GPs locally just now who say I have to pay 50 euro to be referred to a test centre. Pretty disgusted by that for obvious reasons and makes it pretty clear that the infection rates in the country are completely false compared to say the NHS where people don't have to pay to get helped.

How do you tell the difference between a private GP and public GP who will refer you without expecting your wallet in return? The HSE website doesn't specify FFS

Beasty

Threads merged

stevek93

The tuberculosis vaccine keeps being mentioned, is it included in the immunisation process for Ireland?

hmmm

Interesting podcast yesterday from Andy Slavitt. Slavitt was a former senior health administrator in the Obama administration, and now runs a health webcast. His podcast yesterday was all about Covid vaccines:
https://www.lemonadamedia.com/podcast/toolkit-everything-you-need-to-know-about-vaccines/

https://coronavirus.medium.com/there-is-a-light-at-the-end-of-the-tunnel-cbfd5fe4ab72
"I spent the last 24 hours with three scientists, all of whom have seen vaccine data, two of whom are former regulators, all of whom have opinions. My core question was: What is the world going to look like in three years? (But I asked other things as well.)
I’ll start with a slew of good news.
The vaccine data from Oxford (being run in Brazil) looks strong. No real safety issues so far. Gives people the antibodies. People are getting it post-Covid-19 and some will get it in a challenge trial."

Some interesting stuff from the podcast:
- No real safety issues from the trials so far
- Two injections
- An 80 year old generated an immune response

ACitizenErased

PFIZER AND BIONTECH GRANTED FDA FAST TRACK DESIGNATION FOR TWO INVESTIGATIONAL MRNA-BASED VACCINE CANDIDATES AGAINST SARS-COV-2

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-release/press-release-detail/pfizer-and-biontech-granted-fda-fast-track-designation-two

Could be ready in as little as 4 months. Mad that Pfizers may beat out Moderna.

LiquidZeb

Just wondering what the lads here think of some stories of people getting covid twice? Are they misdiagnoses, testing errors, resurgence of symptoms, or just pure freak incidents? Or does it spell bad news for a vaccine?

ACitizenErased

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Just wondering what the lads here think of some stories of people getting covid twice? Are they misdiagnoses, testing errors, resurgence of symptoms, or just pure freak incidents? Or does it spell bad news for a vaccine?

There's been no scientific evidence/papers on re-infection so I reckon it's issues with testing.
Recent studies in rhesus macaques have backed up the fact that re-infection is not likely possible.
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/14/study-in-primates-finds-acquired-immunity-prevents-covid-19-reinfections/

LiquidZeb

ACitizenErased wrote: »

There's been no scientific evidence/papers on re-infection so I reckon it's issues with testing.
Recent studies in rhesus macaques have backed up the fact that re-infection is not likely possible.
https://directorsblog.nih.gov/2020/07/14/study-in-primates-finds-acquired-immunity-prevents-covid-19-reinfections/

Thanks very much. I don't mean to brown-nose but you're one of the best covid posters on the site. To be fair the vaccine thread is fairly solid for good posters.

ACitizenErased

LiquidZeb wrote: »

Thanks very much. I don't mean to brown-nose but you're one of the best covid posters on the site. To be fair the vaccine thread is fairly solid for good posters.

Thanks! This thread acts as an escape

hmmm

Moderna phase 1 results are out.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-moderna/moderna-phase-one-results-show-coronavirus-vaccine-safe-induces-immune-response-idUSKCN24F2SW

https://twitter.com/LucyWalkerlab/status/1283173961862447104

Meg is the best biotech commentator on TV.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNqoa3aVFx8

Hmmzis

hmmm wrote: »

Moderna phase 1 results are out.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2022483

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-moderna/moderna-phase-one-results-show-coronavirus-vaccine-safe-induces-immune-response-idUSKCN24F2SW

https://twitter.com/LucyWalkerlab/status/1283173961862447104

Meg is the best biotech commentator on TV.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNqoa3aVFx8

Very solid results, overall titers are sky high, good neutralisation titers as well. The 100ug dose prime+boost looks like the best option for this vaccine. Induces some cell based responses as well.

Overall, having seen now at least half a dozen RNA vaccine results (pre-clinic and clinical), to me it looks like they are doing a solid job of getting an immune response going. They might not be the nicest ones to take, but the payoff looks to be worth it. Now it's observation of the kinetics over time.

hmmm

Looks like potential good news for vaccine development and protection against Covid in general. Still plenty more work to be done before we can draw conclusions.

https://twitter.com/bertoletti_lab/status/1283330582923997185

"Patients recovered from #SARS 17 years ago still possess virus-specific memory T cells displaying cross-reactivity to #SARSCoV2"

"3) Over 50% of donors with no infection or contact with SARSCoV1/2 harbor expandable T cells cross-reactive to #SARSCoV2 likely induced by contact or infection with other #coronavirus strains "

stevek93

hmmm wrote: »

Looks like potential good news for vaccine development and protection against Covid in general. Still plenty more work to be done before we can draw conclusions.

https://twitter.com/bertoletti_lab/status/1283330582923997185

"Patients recovered from #SARS 17 years ago still possess virus-specific memory T cells displaying cross-reactivity to #SARSCoV2"

"3) Over 50% of donors with no infection or contact with SARSCoV1/2 harbor expandable T cells cross-reactive to #SARSCoV2 likely induced by contact or infection with other #coronavirus strains "

Can someone explain the T Cell immune response? I don't fully understand it.

opinionated3

Great thread folks. Thanks to all the knowledgeable posters here who are able to explain what is going on with the hunt for the vaccine. It provides a little chink of light amongst some of the more depressing threads linked to covid. Appreciate it.

Hmmzis

stevek93 wrote: »

Can someone explain the T Cell immune response? I don't fully understand it.

There are lots of them, but the main ones everyone is looking for are:

CD4+ T cells - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T_helper_cell
They are our body's immune response's generals, they manage the other cells to respond in a proper manner to a pathogen. They can activate CD8+ T cells and tell memory B cells to start producing specific antibodies.

CD8+ T Cells - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytotoxic_T_cell
They can kill infected cells directly that are presenting antigens (i.e. part of a virus) on their surface via the MHC-I class protein. All cells in our bodies present MHC-I, so if a cell gets infected, parts of the pathogen get attached to this protein and shown on the surface of the cell. The cytotoxic T cells (CD8+) can then recognise those infected cells and kill them off, taking the pathogen out as well. If MHC-I with antigen is present, these cells do not even need the helper cells to do their job.

After an infection, some of them will stick around and become memory T cells (similar to B cells). When they encounter the pathogen again, they can quickly start proliferating and acting on the previously known pathogen.

There is way more detail to it, but the above is my current understanding of T cell roles.

Hmmzis

One more for the armoury. This one is a VLP type, very curious to see their pre-clinical data when they release it and I hope all goes well in the clinic for them.

https://www.medicago.com/en/newsroom/medicago-begins-phase-i-clinical-trials-for-its-covid-19-vaccine-candidate/

I'm particularly fond of VLP types since I've read the history of the HPV vaccine and its unexpected effectiveness and durability of the immune response from it.

ACitizenErased

Great interview with Sarah Gilbert who is leading the UofOxford vaccine.

Covid Vaccine Front-Runner Is Months Ahead of Her Competition

The University of Oxford candidate, led by Sarah Gilbert, might be through human trials in September. AstraZeneca has lined up agreements to produce 2 billion doses. Could this be the one?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-15/oxford-s-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-coronavirus-front-runner?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-businessweek&utm_content=businessweek&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

D.Q

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Great interview with Sarah Gilbert who is leading the UofOxford vaccine.

Covid Vaccine Front-Runner Is Months Ahead of Her Competition

The University of Oxford candidate, led by Sarah Gilbert, might be through human trials in September. AstraZeneca has lined up agreements to produce 2 billion doses. Could this be the one?

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-07-15/oxford-s-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-coronavirus-front-runner?cmpid=socialflow-twitter-businessweek&utm_content=businessweek&utm_campaign=socialflow-organic&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter

Can't even imagine the pressure on her shoulders.

Deserves so much respect.

Gael23

D.Q wrote: »

Can't even imagine the pressure on her shoulders.

Deserves so much respect.

She will be on the Queens New Years honours list if it works

is_that_so

D.Q wrote: »

Can't even imagine the pressure on her shoulders.

Deserves so much respect.

Word of caution about her -she gets excited. She had quick tests out in a matter of days back in March-April but we hope she's right here!

ACitizenErased

Mad that the Oxford vaccine was first injected into mice on February 17th. Most of us didn't even know what COVID was back then. Insane stuff.

timmy_mallet

Hmmzis wrote: »

Very solid results, overall titers are sky high, good neutralisation titers as well. The 100ug dose prime+boost looks like the best option for this vaccine. Induces some cell based responses as well.

Overall, having seen now at least half a dozen RNA vaccine results (pre-clinic and clinical), to me it looks like they are doing a solid job of getting an immune response going. They might not be the nicest ones to take, but the payoff looks to be worth it. Now it's observation of the kinetics over time.

I suppose safety should be considered too!

hmmm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rbSEzG9i6tw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DimWof9fX6Y

Also, I didn't see this quote from the Pfizer CEO a few days ago:

https://time.com/5864690/pfizer-vaccine-coronavirus/
"So it was a big moment?
For me, it was the moment when I saw the data, plus many other data that we haven’t published yet, [that] made me say that until now I was thinking if we have a vaccine. Now I’m discussing when we’re going to have a vaccine."

ACitizenErased

"New Data on T Cells and the Coronavirus"

It also showed that there are, in fact, people who have both CD4+ and CD8+ T cells that recognize protein antigens from the new coronavirus even though they have never been exposed to SARS, MERS, or the new virus. The paper speculated that this might be due to cross-reactivity with proteins from the “common cold” coronaviruses”, and raised the possibility that there might be a part of the population that has at least some existing protection against the current pandemic

This could explain why children are not good receivers or transmitters of the virus. As far as I know children are exposed to a lot more coronaviruses compared to adults.
https://blogs.sciencemag.org/pipeline/archives/2020/07/15/new-data-on-t-cells-and-the-coronavirus