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Masks

fr336

How many people on Boards have a mask and if so are you wearing them for essential trips? And this late in the day where can you get one that is going to be half decent and not from a suspect seller who could have done anything to it?

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Comments

GT89

Arghus wrote: »

I also work in a shop and I have to say I completely disagree, I think it's more important for retail staff to wear some form of facial coverings.

You interact with so many people over the course of each day and, crucially, you also are in close contact with co-workers, who are all equally interacting with people all day. The general retail worker comes into contact with so many people over the course of a day at work, way more than just the regular Joe who comes in and out to do their shopping. To make masks mandatory for them and to make retail workers themselves exempt, even though they're far, far more exposed? That doesn't make any sense IMO.

Don't get me wrong, facial coverings in work absolutely do suck. Some of the huge shields are awful and make work difficult, but some of the neater coverings are honestly not that bad.

My point is masks are mandatory on public transport but bus drivers don't have to wear them I know some do but not all. I'm guessing bus drivers come into contact with a lot more people than the average joe soap also but they don't wear masks.

Most people only go into a shop for about 30 mins maybe an hour at the most but staff have to be there all day. It can't be good to wear a mask all day.

Arghus

GT89 wrote: »

My point is masks are mandatory on public transport but bus drivers don't have to wear them I know some do but not all. I'm guessing bus drivers come into contact with a lot more people than the average joe soap also but they don't wear masks.

Most people only go into a shop for about 30 mins maybe an hour at the most but staff have to be there all day. It can't be good to wear a mask all day.

To be honest, I'm not totally up to speed with whether masks are mandatory for the drivers themselves in those situations.

They were certainly pushing for it at the start, but the unions seem to have changed their tune in recent days, which I find a bit inexplicable. I've certainly seen bus drivers wearing them, but, I'm sure there's a few who aren't. Though it has to be said that on any bus that I've got on recently the driver has had some sort of covering over the area where they are sitting. Regardless, if I was driving a bus I would wear a mask.

Is it good to wear a mask a day, probably not. But I think not making them mandatory for the staff themselves defeats the purpose of making them mandatory. Is it fair, not really - but a lot of things about all of this aren't fair. The staff are the most likely people to pick up Covid. I share your concerns in many ways, but wearing a mask in work is a relatively small sacrifice, in my eyes, compared to others.

I guess we'll see how it pans out.

GT89

Arghus wrote: »

To be honest, I'm not totally up to speed with whether masks are mandatory for the drivers themselves in those situations.

Drivers are exempt
https://twitter.com/dublinbusnews/status/1282599782540873728?s=19

They were certainly pushing for it at the start, but the unions seem to have changed their tune in recent days, which I find a bit inexplicable. I've certainly seen bus drivers wearing them, but, I'm sure there's a few who aren't. Though it has to be said that on any bus that I've got on recently the driver has had some sort of covering over the area where they are sitting. Regardless, if I was driving a bus I would wear a mask.

The union stance is clear they wanted masks mandatory but despite that they are against the idea of having driver enforce this rule as they don't feel it part of their job. Some bus drivers do wear masks but they don't have to.

Is it good to wear a mask a day, probably not. But I think not making them mandatory for the staff themselves defeats the purpose of making them mandatory. Is it fair, not really - but a lot of things about all of this aren't fair. The staff are the most likely people to pick up Covid. I share your concerns in many ways, but wearing a mask in work is a relatively small sacrifice, in my eyes, compared to others.

I guess we'll see how it pans out.

But I thought the argument behind masks was not that it prevents the wearer from getting it but rather it prevents the mask wearer from spreading it to others. Since the vast majority of people in a shop are customers not staff surely the staff cannot be putting the customers at that much risk by not wearing them.

Surely the ocasional non mask wearer in amongst the population is putting the majority at risk. The hardcore mask advocates seem to think everyone should wear one but it's hardly workable to believe that. There will always be some who won't.

Arghus

GT89 wrote: »

But I thought the argument behind masks was not that it prevents the wearer from getting it but rather it prevents the mask wearer from spreading it to others. Since the vast majority of people in a shop are customers not staff surely the staff cannot be putting the customers at that much risk by not wearing them.

Masks are more useful in terms of preventing spread to others than as a form of personal protection, but they still provide a certain degree of personal protection. It isn't really a one or the other situation, there's a bit of both in it.

Shop workers interact with more people and other members of staff over the course of a day, full stop. By those facts alone they are at a greater degree of risk, both in terms of catching it and spreading it. Where I work it wouldn't be uncommon for the only people most customers interact with while shopping to to be the staff or whoever serves them while they are there. And those staff have dealt with a lot of other customers throughout the day - and lately the idea of social distancing seems to have completely vanished from people's minds.

If you are a retail worker facing the public - and if you're on a shopfloor that's effectively facing the public - you are going to be face to face with lots and lots of people, from all walks of life, everyday. That brings a greater degree of risk for you in terms of catching it and spreading it, than the "lay person" that's a fact.

It makes no sense to me to make masks mandatory to everyone else, but to leave the staff - who will deal with the most people and be exposed to the most people over the course of a day - exempt.

I interact with more members of the public in about two hours of work, then I'd imagine most people currently do in a week. And most of my fellow members of staff, who I can't avoid working beside, are absolutely piss poor at paying the bare minimum of attention to even the least bit of heed to any safety guidelines whatsoever. That makes me believe that facial coverings for staff should be viewed as crucial. Maybe it isn't like that where you are.

Surely the ocasional non mask wearer in amongst the population is putting the majority at risk. The hardcore mask advocates seem to think everyone should wear one but it's hardly workable to believe that. There will always be some who won't.

But the whole purpose of making mask wearing mandatory is to remove the occasional non mask wearer. More and more countries in Europe are mandating facial coverings in indoor settings, so it obviously is workable. Maybe some people won't do it, but should we not make any rules or laws because there's some people out there that won't follow them?

dwayneshintzy

GT89 wrote: »

I should hope they don't expect retail staff to wear masks if they are made mandatory in shops. I work in a shop and would find it extremely uncomfortable to wear a mask for long periods. Bus drivers don't have to wear them and rightly so as they have to be on the bus for long periods but nor should retail workers or any workers for that matter unless their actually dealing directly with CV19 patients or would use a mask in the course of their work anyway due to dust or spray paint.

Because you don't know who has covid-19. It may be uncomfortable yes, and take some getting used to, but I don't see why retail staff should be exempted if any mandatory mask usage is brought in.

If you go to an Asian country, that has a handle on covid-19, retail staff will have masks on, as well as bus drivers, chefs, teachers; everyone, basically. They're not somehow physiologically different that allows them to wear masks for long periods where Irish people can't.

McGiver

dwayneshintzy wrote:

If you go to an Asian country, that has a handle on covid-19, retail staff will have masks on, as well as bus drivers, chefs, teachers; everyone, basically. They're not somehow physiologically different that allows them to wear masks for long periods where Irish people can't.

This.

Even bloody Trump wore a mask yesterday, England made conceded and made them mandatory in shops.

Yet here we are people arguing about hundreds of reasons why not to wear a mask and how drivers can't enforce it, this that yada yada... FFS. It's all happening worldwide. What's so special in Ireland that it can't be done here? I suspect the issue is in the head!

Jim_Hodge

GT89 wrote: »

I should hope they don't expect retail staff to wear masks if they are made mandatory in shops. I work in a shop and would find it extremely uncomfortable to wear a mask for long periods. Bus drivers don't have to wear them and rightly so as they have to be on the bus for long periods but nor should retail workers or any workers for that matter unless their actually dealing directly with CV19 patients or would use a mask in the course of their work anyway due to dust or spray paint.

If customers wear masks the staff should wear masks if not behind a screen. Every bus driver I've seen has been wearing a mask.

AudreyHepburn

There’s absolutely no reason why it can’t be done here. The problem as I see it is a lot of Irish people simply love a good moan and hate having to follow rules.

Many of us also seem to think we are more intelligent and enlightened than those in authority and therefore know better than they do.

It’s very simple - wear a mask. It’s just a little strip of fabric over your face. Sure it can uncomfortable and annoying but it could mean the difference between life and death.

And if you have a genuine reason why you can’t then you should have to get a doctor’s letter. Otherwise you’re just making excuses for your own selfishness.

CalamariFritti

I don't get it why some people here have such a longing for masks. We have been in supermarkets without masks for months - nothing happened. We have now been in smaller shops for quite some time - nothing happened. Why are some people so keen on them when the effect is clearly at the very least inconclusive if not outright placebo in normal day to day life?

Yes I get it. The logic as such is sound I will not debate that. If everyone was wearing a mask the risk will be smaller no doubt. But we have been going about things without them and nothing happened. So clearly that risk we're trying to minimise is not that big in day to day life to begin with. So why the longing for such a mostly-for-show bull gesture? Why are we so willing to sacrifice core aspects of human interactions for marginal benefits? Have we really become such a society of cotton wool merchants that the smallest risk must be answered with all force just in case?

Jim_Hodge

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I don't get it why some people here have such a longing for masks. We have been in supermarkets without masks for months - nothing happened. We have now been in smaller shops for quite some time - nothing happened. Why are some people so keen on them when the effect is clearly at the very least inconclusive if not outright placebo in normal day to day life.

Yes I get it. The logic as such is sound I will not debate that. If everyone was wearing a mask the risk will be smaller no doubt. But we have been going about things without them and nothing happened. So clearly that risk we're trying to minimise is not that big in day to day life to begin with. So why the longing for such a mostly-for-show bull gesture? Why are we so willing to sacrifice core aspects of human interactions for highly dubious benefits?

We're going about more now and need to get back to a decent level of social and economic activity. Social distancing has reduced.

kaahooters

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I don't get it why some people here have such a longing for masks. We have been in supermarkets without masks for months - nothing happened. We have now been in smaller shops for quite some time - nothing happened. Why are some people so keen on them when the effect is clearly at the very least inconclusive if not outright placebo in normal day to day life?

Yes I get it. The logic as such is sound I will not debate that. If everyone was wearing a mask the risk will be smaller no doubt. But we have been going about things without them and nothing happened. So clearly that risk we're trying to minimise is not that big in day to day life to begin with. So why the longing for such a mostly-for-show bull gesture? Why are we so willing to sacrifice core aspects of human interactions for marginal benefits?

ok, when all of theses instances were happening, were we in lockdown? with limited movment?.
just because nothing happpened to you, dosent mean it didnt happen to somone elses.

CalamariFritti

kaahooters wrote: »

ok, when all of theses instances were happening, were we in lockdown? with limited movment?.
just because nothing happpened to you, dosent mean it didnt happen to somone elses.

Nothing happened to more or less everyone. Or else the numbers wouldnt be where they are. Are we really willing to put the whole country on masks over 10 new cases every day?

CalamariFritti

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

We're going about more now and need to get back to a decent level of social and economic activity. Social distancing has reduced.

Thats my point. Going around like we're in some dystopian sci-fi is not a decent level of social activity. Social distancing will have to go, too, eventually.

AudreyHepburn

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Nothing happened to more or less everyone. Or else the numbers wouldnt be where they are. Are we really willing to put the whole country on masks over 10 new cases every day?

Absolutely yes - to ensure the cases remain that low as things open again.

Nothing major happened before because there wasn’t a global pandemic before.

It’s really not that hard to understand.

CalamariFritti

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Absolutely yes - to ensure the cases remain that low as things open again.

Nothing major happened before because there wasn’t a global pandemic before.

It’s really not that hard to understand.

I love that line. Some empty argument followed by that line. And now I'm supposed to bow to your superior logic... really?

Try reading my post before you answer. We have been going about things without masks for months now during it. Nobody is talking about 'before'.

[Deleted User]

I think I need to unsubscribe to this thread before the absolute retardation of it all makes me break my screen.

Jim_Hodge

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thats my point. Going around like we're in some dystopian sci-fi is not a decent level of social activity. Social distancing will have to go, too, eventually.

Fair enough. I see what we're dealing with here. Good luck. No point discussing with you. I'll wear a mask to help protect others, you do as you like.

AudreyHepburn

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I love that line. Some empty argument followed by that line. And now I'm supposed to bow to your superior logic... really?

Try reading my post before you answer. We have been going about things without masks for months now during it. Nobody is talking about 'before'.

Yes and we probably should have been wearing them all along.

Stop hiding your head in the sand.

CalamariFritti

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

Yes and we probably should have been wearing them all along.

Stop hiding your head in the sand.

You love those convincing one liners don't you?

AudreyHepburn

CalamariFritti wrote: »

You love those convincing one liners don't you?

Give it a rest

Patrick2010

Part of a memo issued in the Mater hospital to staff a couple of months ago, not sure if their advice has changed but interesting to see a lot of staff still not wearing masks so maybe not.

The use of surgical masks is just one component of a multi-pronged effort to minimise the transmission of Covid-19. The most important aspect is social distancing of at least 1-2 meters and the correct use of alcohol-gel based hand hygiene. Focusing on, or elevating face masks to an importance greater than these first two principles is wrong and is not evidence-based. To date, the Mater hospital have cared for the largest number of COVID 19 inpatients and have a low level patient to staff transmission compared to other Dublin Teaching Hospitals.

Incorrect use of PPE, (in particular face masks and gloves), can increase the risk of transmission. This is because people who wear a face mask all day tend not to wear it properly for the entire day. They tend to adjust it with their bare hands and sometime even with the gloved hands. They take the same mask on-and-off from their nose and mouths. This increases the risk of transmission of the virus which is more likely to have accumulated on the outside of the mask the longer it is in use. Surgical masks can also provide people with ‘a false sense of security’ and cause them to neglect social distancing and hand hygiene.

CalamariFritti

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Fair enough. I see what we're dealing with here. Good luck. No point discussing with you. I'll wear a mask to help protect others, you do as you like.

I see the sentiment in that sentence. I'm one of those nutters am I?
Of course that makes it very easy for you. You can continue in your herd opinion bubble and leave your brain switched off. Must be very comforting.

See what I did there? Not very nice to be called 'one of those' is it?

Tork

That is advice from a couple of months ago when less was known about how the virus or transmitted. There was also a shortage of PPE so that could be an agenda behind it. There is now evidence that the aerosols stay in the air for longer than they thought and that they can infect people.

CalamariFritti

Tork wrote: »

That is advice from a couple of months ago when less was known about how the virus or transmitted. There was also a shortage of PPE so that could be an agenda behind it. There is now evidence that the aerosols stay in the air for longer than they thought and that they can infect people.

There is now evidence that the aerosols might stay in the air for longer than they thought and that there is no proof they cant infect people. Under lab conditions.

Very different.

[Deleted User]

CalamariFritti wrote: »

There is now evidence that the aerosols might stay in the air for longer than they thought and that there is no proof they cant infect people. Under lab conditions.

Very different.

If I had Covid-19 and was standing next to you, would you prefer if I wore a mask or no?

Away With The Fairies

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Thats a bit harsh. I wouldnt dismiss frightened people like that, that s not nice. I will try to come at it with logic. But it seems a lot of people handed their logic over at the door here.

This disease is spread by respiratory droplets. To prevent transmission, cover your mouth and nose. That's logic.

odyssey06

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Part of a memo issued in the Mater hospital to staff a couple of months ago, not sure if their advice has changed but interesting to see a lot of staff still not wearing masks so maybe not.

To state that it increases the risk of transmission without balancing it against what the mask does in terms of reducing the output of droplets shows that it is unbalanced, at best mis-informed article and at worst was probably part of the disinformation campaign to protect the stock of PPE.
The author is worried about someone touching their mask which has the virus on it. How did the virus get onto their mask in the first place?

ginoginelli

Patrick2010 wrote: »

Part of a memo issued in the Mater hospital to staff a couple of months ago, not sure if their advice has changed but interesting to see a lot of staff still not wearing masks so maybe not.

The use of surgical masks is just one component of a multi-pronged effort to minimise the transmission of Covid-19. The most important aspect is social distancing of at least 1-2 meters and the correct use of alcohol-gel based hand hygiene. Focusing on, or elevating face masks to an importance greater than these first two principles is wrong and is not evidence-based. To date, the Mater hospital have cared for the largest number of COVID 19 inpatients and have a low level patient to staff transmission compared to other Dublin Teaching Hospitals.

Incorrect use of PPE, (in particular face masks and gloves), can increase the risk of transmission. This is because people who wear a face mask all day tend not to wear it properly for the entire day. They tend to adjust it with their bare hands and sometime even with the gloved hands. They take the same mask on-and-off from their nose and mouths. This increases the risk of transmission of the virus which is more likely to have accumulated on the outside of the mask the longer it is in use. Surgical masks can also provide people with ‘a false sense of security’ and cause them to neglect social distancing and hand hygiene.

An appropriate statement from the country with the highest healthcare infection in the world.

This advice has changed now btw, and we have seen a dramatic decline in infections since the ppe became available for health workers.

[Deleted User]

"This increases the risk of transmission of the virus which is more likely to have accumulated on the outside of the mask the longer it is in use."

Instead of the alternative of it going right into your mouth.

timetogo1

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I don't get it why some people here have such a longing for masks. We have been in supermarkets without masks for months - nothing happened. We have now been in smaller shops for quite some time - nothing happened.

Really? We've severely restricted business and our day to day lives for the last few months. Schools closed, older people couldn't visit or be visited, 1000's of people became unemployed.
Nothing happened????? Do you want the country / countries to stay like this forever?
If everybody wearing the masks made it a tiny bit less likely to reduce the chance of spreading the disease it might be enough to get the damn r number to a low enough level so that the virus dies out.

None of the measures we've done over the last few months are extremely effective. They all have some level of effectiveness. The cumulative effect of all of these slightly effective measures may add up to an effective measure.

I don't have a longing for masks. Nobody does and to say that people do, is childish. If we had a longing for masks we wouldn't be waiting for a pandemic to start wearing them.