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Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

Graham

Continued from here:

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058041687

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Gumbo

smurgen wrote: »

Tell em to have patience and start low balling . The sooner sellers get used to this as the new normal the better it will be for everyone. The power dynamic has changed and sellers are to be price takers now. Estate agents would want to up the professionalism too. Too many Del Boy type characters who'll be out of the job unless they begin to start showing some transparency.

Ok, when you’ve actually bought somewhere, let us know how this strategy worked out.

Thanks.

Bass Reeves

Gumbo wrote: »

Ok, when you’ve actually bought somewhere, let us know how this strategy worked out.

Thanks.

Low balling only eworks, if you are the only bidder, if vendors pricing is unrealistic and or the property has been on the market some time

JJJackal

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Low balling only eworks, if you are the only bidder, if vendors pricing is unrealistic and or the property has been on the market some time

And if the vendor needs to sell!

awec

Gumbo wrote: »

Ok, when you’ve actually bought somewhere, let us know how this strategy worked out.

Thanks.

Yea it's truly a bizarre notion that sellers should start leaving money on the table and no longer sell for the best price they can get.

smurgen

Gumbo wrote: »

Ok, when you’ve actually bought somewhere, let us know how this strategy worked out.

Thanks.

Will do ðŸ‘

0gac3yjefb5sv7

Anyone know why the market in Dublin seems so strong in some areas currently despite CoVid?

Two things have been mentioned supply shortage and people using their mortgage approval before it expires. But on the mortgage approval piece, aren't banks asking for letters to prove you haven't been affected which may moot this point?

Seems overall, it may not be a dead cat bounce and just will remain competitive due to supply.

Queenio

MattS1 wrote: »

Anyone know why the market in Dublin seems so strong in some areas currently despite CoVid?

Two things have been mentioned supply shortage and people using their mortgage approval before it expires. But on the mortgage approval piece, aren't banks asking for letters to prove you haven't been affected which may moot this point?

Seems overall, it may not be a dead cat bounce and just will remain competitive due to supply.

I suspect it's lack of supply and people not putting houses on the market atm for fear of getting a poor price. Im looking in a restricted south dublin area and not one house has been added in one of the more popular areas in the last two weeks apart from one house in very very poor condition for an executor sale. And I honestly think that one is completely over priced but it has had a very busy viewing within 48 hours

Bass Reeves

JJJackal wrote: »

And if the vendor needs to sell!

All vendors need to sell to a certain extent. You one or two of the other reasons to be in play as well. If there is more buyers than sellers vendors needing to sell is not an issue

Villa05

awec wrote:

Yea it's truly a bizarre notion that sellers should start leaving money on the table and no longer sell for the best price they can get.

Is the property market a market that only ever rises.

The vast majority of houses in this country were purchased at a price well below current market prices?

With regards to property market, is it not possible for "profit taking" to occur as happens in all other asset markets?

I tried to get an answer to this from our estate agent poster who has gone but they dodged the question all the time

smurgen

MattS1 wrote: »

Anyone know why the market in Dublin seems so strong in some areas currently despite CoVid?

Two things have been mentioned supply shortage and people using their mortgage approval before it expires. But on the mortgage approval piece, aren't banks asking for letters to prove you haven't been affected which may moot this point?

Seems overall, it may not be a dead cat bounce and just will remain competitive due to supply.

I think demand is about to collapse. The WFH/ relocation of workers is being looked at by multinationals. They are looking at the tax implications of this with the accounting and tax firms currently.

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1282302449387286528?s=19

Cyrus

smurgen wrote: »

I think demand is about to collapse. The WFH/ relocation of workers is being looked at by multinationals. They are looking at the tax implications of this with the accounting and tax firms currently.

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1282302449387286528?s=19

Did you read and understand the article ? I don’t think you did .

cnocbui

Villa05 wrote: »

Is the property market a market that only ever rises.

The vast majority of houses in this country were purchased at a price well below current market prices?

With regards to property market, is it not possible for "profit taking" to occur as happens in all other asset markets?

I tried to get an answer to this from our estate agent poster who has gone but they dodged the question all the time

I bought in 2002 outside of Dublin. Taking into account inflation, I would be unlikely to get back what has been put in.

Profit taking hardly works if you are living in the asset. If it's an investment property, you might want to line up an alternative investment with equal or greater returns. Taking into account the CGT, I think you might be struggling.

awec

Villa05 wrote: »

Is the property market a market that only ever rises.

The vast majority of houses in this country were purchased at a price well below current market prices?

With regards to property market, is it not possible for "profit taking" to occur as happens in all other asset markets?

I tried to get an answer to this from our estate agent poster who has gone but they dodged the question all the time

If someone can sell their house for 100k profit, why on earth would they sell it for less profit than that? It is nonsensical. Sellers need to realise that they're price takers etc, they'll realise that when it's actually the reality, prices will drop when demand really drops and not a moment before it. The market doesn't change based on what's written in newspapers or posted on boards.ie, it changes based on what's really happening out there, and at the moment it seems by and large sellers are still succeeding in offloading their property without having to take big hits on price.

There appears to be frustration from some that the bargains they were expecting to see are not materialising as quickly as they thought. They will need to be patient.

cnocbui

smurgen wrote: »

I think demand is about to collapse. The WFH/ relocation of workers is being looked at by multinationals. They are looking at the tax implications of this with the accounting and tax firms currently.

https://twitter.com/Independent_ie/status/1282302449387286528?s=19

Reading between the lines, there is a good chance they will call them back if they will be slugged more tax, which they should be. This country offers a low corporate tax rate as there is a belief the employment generated is worth the discount. If the Multinationals stop holding up their end of the deal, even the Irish government might be stirred to do something.

cnocbui

A bargain is something no one else wants to buy.

awec

It was posted on here numerous times that remote working outside the state came with complications and tax implications and it was rubbished by the usual suspects keen to portray a view that Ireland's MNCs were going to become remote working hubs that employ hardly anyone here. The MNCs enjoy a low corporation tax rate in exchange for providing employment in the state.

smurgen

Cyrus wrote: »

Did you read and understand the article ? I don’t think you did .

Yep. They're going to get challenged on substance issues and may have to pay more tax as a result. Or keep the bear minimum employees here to satisfy rules. Either was it means employees are going to be relocating, the issue is how many?

Hubertj

smurgen wrote: »

Yep. They're going to get challenged on substance issues and may have to pay more tax as a result. Or keep the bear minimum employees here to satisfy rules. Either was it means employees are going to be relocating, the issue is how many?

That’s not what the article says. You don’t understand it or you are making things up to suit your own agenda. MNCs advises employees that they would face persona tax liability if they were gone over 6 months. MNCs know they have corporate tax challenges due to where work takes place as you said.
I don’t care either way but get your facts straight.

smurgen

Hubertj wrote: »

That’s not what the article says. You don’t understand it or you are making things up to suit your own agenda. MNCs advises employees that they would face persona tax liability if they were gone over 6 months. MNCs know they have corporate tax challenges due to where work takes place as you said.
I don’t care either way but get your facts straight.

They will. At which point the employee can opt to pay tax in another jurisdiction.the multinational can allow this until their corporate tax is scrutinized by Revenue. They will need to be able to evidence substance in Ireland to avail of the low corporate tax.

Hubertj

smurgen wrote: »

They will. At which point the employee can opt to pay tax in another jurisdiction.the multinational can allow this until their corporate tax is scrutinized by Revenue. They will need to be able to evidence substance in Ireland to avail of the low corporate tax.

Many have been told to come back within 6 months - where I work, LinkedIn and Google all communicated that to their employees. But you keep peddling whatever you want

JimmyVik

MattS1 wrote: »

Anyone know why the market in Dublin seems so strong in some areas currently despite CoVid?

Two things have been mentioned supply shortage and people using their mortgage approval before it expires. But on the mortgage approval piece, aren't banks asking for letters to prove you haven't been affected which may moot this point?

Seems overall, it may not be a dead cat bounce and just will remain competitive due to supply.

Cpuncils now saying they are going to buy ex airbnbs or long term lease them. So they wont be coming back to the market to normal buyers either

Bass Reeves

Villa05 wrote: »

Is the property market a market that only ever rises.

The vast majority of houses in this country were purchased at a price well below current market prices?

With regards to property market, is it not possible for "profit taking" to occur as happens in all other asset markets?

I tried to get an answer to this from our estate agent poster who has gone but they dodged the question all the time

Why would you profit take and pay 33% tax on any profit accrued. As there are costs involved, between solicitors and estate agents along with tax you could be looking at a 40% cost on a 100k profit.

If you decide to rebuy it could cost you another 3-5k in stamp duty, solicitors fees, professional fees. The only time you sell is if you do not intend to repurchase

Top Dog

smurgen wrote: »

They will. At which point the employee can opt to pay tax in another jurisdiction.the multinational can allow this until their corporate tax is scrutinized by Revenue. They will need to be able to evidence substance in Ireland to avail of the low corporate tax.

Working from home will remain just fine, so long add that home is in the state. So it's not going to impact a great number of people who live here.

ngunners

awec wrote: »

It was posted on here numerous times that remote working outside the state came with complications and tax implications and it was rubbished by the usual suspects keen to portray a view that Ireland's MNCs were going to become remote working hubs that employ hardly anyone here. The MNCs enjoy a low corporation tax rate in exchange for providing employment in the state.

I know of someone working in a large multi-national who has been allowed to move to permanent remote working in their home country. In order to this, the company will be paying the employee in a different currency. I don’t think many companies will allow this on a large scale but it’s at least a possibility for large companies.

Spring Celebrator

ngunners wrote: »

I know of someone working in a large multi-national who has been allowed to move to permanent remote working in their home country. In order to this, the company will be paying the employee in a different currency. I don’t think many companies will allow this on a large scale but it’s at least a possibility for large companies.

Yeah I have a friend who was offered the same deal. He won't hesitate to move to his home country with 50% cheaper houses with a higher standard.

Cyrus

smurgen wrote: »

They will. At which point the employee can opt to pay tax in another jurisdiction.the multinational can allow this until their corporate tax is scrutinized by Revenue. They will need to be able to evidence substance in Ireland to avail of the low corporate tax.

You don’t really get how it works , revenue here are generally quite amenable it’s the tax authorities in other countries that tend to be the issue . Spain for example being one particularly aggressive jurisdiction, they will infer permanent establishment for the flimsiest reasons.

sanfranbest

This house was listed last year for 575k, it sold for 675K in Dec 2019, 100K over the asking price,
thats how crazy prices are in some parts of Dublin,,,,,,,,,,
I would guess it was a few Techie's bidding against each other,,,
I know its nice, but a 89 sqm, two bedroom, one bathroom terraced house for 675K,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Thats back to Celtic Tiger madness.
Maybe the Techie's who bought it can now work from home and would rather have a nice four bedroom house on the beach in Wexford for less than they paid for this tiny house,,,,,,

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/42-martin-street-portobello-dublin-8/4361567

Working from home will affect a lot of properties in Dublin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Cyrus

sanfranbest wrote: »

This house was listed last year for 575k, it sold for 675K in Dec 2019, 100K over the asking price,
thats how crazy prices are in some parts of Dublin,,,,,,,,,,
I would guess it was a few Techie's bidding against each other,,,
I know its nice, but a 89 sqm, two bedroom, one bathroom terraced house for 675K,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,Thats back to Celtic Tiger madness.
Maybe the Techie's who bought it can now work from home and would rather have a nice four bedroom house on the beach in Wexford for less than they paid for this tiny house,,,,,,

https://www.myhome.ie/residential/brochure/42-martin-street-portobello-dublin-8/4361567

Working from home will affect a lot of properties in Dublin,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

So everyone keeps saying

You understand what the corollary is I assume if this does come to pass ?

sanfranbest

Cyrus wrote: »

So everyone keeps saying

You understand what the corollary is I assume if this does come to pass ?

Yes the corollary will be??????????

If all the high earning Techie's move out of Dublin,,, who will support all the trendy cafes, restaurants and bars in the Camden quarter,,,,,
Portobello is currently Techie central, walking distance to Facebook etc.

Bass Reeves

Spring Celebrator wrote: »

Yeah I have a friend who was offered the same deal. He won't hesitate to move to his home country with 50% cheaper houses with a higher standard.

MN's will insist on a residential requirement in Ireland If WFH creates costs or risks for them. Those that assume that WFH will cause a collapse in Dublin house prices forget that WFH will be a 3-10 year process. It will have a bigger effect on commercial property rather than residential.