McMurphy wrote: » On the Sabbath
Bishop of hope wrote: » Two wrongs don't make a right, but the second wrong has started. The drum and the flag and the sash will march today amid the virus, cretons.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Some of it carried out with impunity and some of it not. Why is that? 8 years they were intimidating and commiting crime around the Quinn affair...nothing, In comes a higher power in the Gardai, suddenly things start happening. Why was that?
Pkiernan wrote: » Don't worry. MLMD is going to tax the rich!
a very cool kid wrote: » In the UK people working now effectively pay the pensions of those who have retired. While pensions are funded through National Insurance there's no built up fund - it's paid out from National Insurance coming in. If the people of NI are not paying into the National Insurance fund, the UK does not have a fund for the retired people in NI.
By currency change I meant the effect of changing from Sterling to Euro in NI. Prices will go up when they switch (same as they did here in 2002). Also bear in mind that NI groceries/consumer goods in a UI - Brexit world will be sourced from the EU so prices there will be the same as down here (NI currently does 10 times more trade with the UK than it does with ROI).
Lastly the EU has changed significantly since 1989. We have 27 countries now and Ireland is among the very richest. It is difficult to see how the like of Romania and Bulgaria (where wages ~800 a month) would allow a heap of funding to subsidise comparatively high salaries in NI. Also given the rise of nationalism in the UK, it's hard to see a Tory government funding reunification - easy to see Ireland being told to "go whistle".
efanton wrote: » Pensions as stated in my original post should not be a problem at all. The British government has collected pension contributions for decades. They would have basically three choices. 1. They transfer the pension reserves they have previously collected from Northern Ireland to the Irish government, 2. they make a yearly contribution to the Irish government commensurate withe the contributions they have previously collected and according to the number of people who were already retired when a United Ireland came into being, 3. or they simply decide that they will hold on to these funds and continue paying pensions for those that were on a pension before a United Ireland came into being. Currency exchange issues? You do realise in a United Ireland there would be a single currency. I think you are trying to create problems that simply will not be there. The biggest issue that is unknown is how much would the actual transition of services and absorption of the various government departments in Northern Ireland cost. No doubt there will be substantial funding from the EU and UK for this, but I would imagine there still going to be a very hefty cost for the Irish government. Having said that the transition will take years to take effect, so any cost although great would be spread over a long period.
Truthvader wrote: » Truth is the state on both sides of the border had to turn a blind eye to criminal elements on both sides and abadonned working class areas to the local hard men on both sides. Plus had to release Gerry McCabes killers and pretend the Mexicans robbed the Northern Bank. The price of peace. The Kevin Lunney thing was just part of the hidden cost nice professional people rarely have to pay
Truthvader wrote: » Don't know what ex (or current) IRA people the state actually went after. Certainly not Bobby Storey who ended his miserable days cossetted in a cosy bed being cared for by a state whose citizens he devoted his life to murdering, not the killers of Paul Quin, Robert McCartney or Joe Rafferty - and sure the ones we did catch (Garda McCabes killers) had to be let go because Gerry and the lads would only agree to stop killing if they were let off. No idea at all what your final sentence means and indeed it may not be accessible to any meaning at all. Is it meant to be some kind of dark hint that the Guards are "up to something"?
Bishop of hope wrote: » Oh the old, bandit territory exists alright, the border hopping criminals use it all the time. The Lunney case, the atm robberies the lordship credit union robbery, the fuel laundering etc. Of course normal life goes on around it too and only a tiny few are involved in it, but the border area is pretty much a hotbed of criminal activity.
FrancieBrady wrote: » This 'abandonment' thing is a myth. The area (I live in it) is policed like all other areas of the state. It's not bandit country or lawless like those under pressure to explain like to claim. The security forces of the state paid no attention to certain criminal activities but had no problem going after other ex IRA people who had turned to crime. The 'price of peace' didn't come into it then. Why that was and why it happened in divisions of the Gardai that have other issues of national significance is still open to speculation.
Randy Archer wrote: » Say tired claims but it never happens (not an attack on you btw ) There will be no change , until the peace walls are taken down and SF and loyalist cop on and work for the community as a whole . Sure we have Unionists now playing silly buggers because a Shinners had their ra funeral akin to the travellers down in Limerick, while Covid is on. That will take a few weeks of gestures and fist thumping in the desk ...while ordinary people are ignored No one likes the nordies , never mind Blighty. Yes, Westminster will push them under a bus if push comes to shove but then you have to convince Southerners if we want that **** show , we don’t , not right now Nordies are probably going to come out of it alright. Stay within the U.K. but get some special status in the eurozone, best of both worlds . Threat of violence is real (From both loyalist and Republicans ) and level heads in Dublin, London and Brussels don’t want to be dragged into that If Cavan and co haven’t been developed , despite multiple high profile Ministers and Tainiste, by the South, you are tripping balls thinking a UI would change things. Ha come off it, places like Donegal ,and to a lesser extent Cavan, are barely suited to raise sheep ... very little agriculture development can be done up there . Don’t be relying on State to always do everything for ye. Where’s the big money people setting up big Agri business ? Surely Sean Quinn would have spotted opportunity in his rather vast fiefdom of Ulster , if the Viable opportunities had existed Industrial ? Lol. Again, come off of. Donegal actually LOST several key industries - textile, Pharmaceuticals during the boom of 1995-2005 As for tourism, anyone who went to Letterkenny during the Fleadh Ceoils of 2005 to 2006 know withstand they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery - which is odd as the night life is something they could do (before judge Zaidan) . It was bit of a disaster actually, and for some odd reason, the council refused to work with Failte Ireland to promote the thing , like every other town . Those two weekends were just a slightly bigger typical boozy weekend in Letterkenny of that time (which was actually good ) Feck all promotion of the actual cultural aspect of the festival . Just a piss up . There was and is very little to do up there bar drinking (again, night life is good ) so no surprise that they didn’t have repeat visitors thereafter I recall vividly during the fleadhs In other towns , how local business Letterkenny lost the run of themselves. No lying, some of them genuinely believed that they’d be able to even rent out their ****ing garden fronts to campers and people would stay in tents ! (Very limited hotel rooms at the time and apartments ) In 2005 , when people have cars and notions ... I had a good few nights slagging them off about that later . For some odd reason the local central near the hospital ordered crates of bog roll ... (he swore that there’d be huge camp sites around the town ) Chip vans ordered a shed load of stock but forgot to get the special licences needed - I had pointed out to one girl that they better check that out (I’d been familiar with fleadhs elsewhere ) She normally didn’t need to do her business in the town centre itself - when these subtleties were pointed out to her and she was asked where on earth did she think was going to have hoards of people come up the road just for her chips (she had a Van near to the hospital around glen car Inn area ) she wasn’t happy ...two weeks later she’s whinging in the local papers on how the fleadh didn’t go well for her ... Still, Donegal did better with the recent hosting of the Irish Open (golf) Likewise, they did a decent job of the car rallies back in the day It has a long long long way to go to beat off Kerry and Galway Donegal has its mountains and even its beaches . It’s not always freezing up there , yet , it lags behind attracting tourism for **** all reason. Hell, were it not for Wee Danny O’Donnell’s traditional annual tea party in his home area for all the biddies of Ireland .... there wouldn’t have been much going on You don’t need a United Ireland to improve tourism . Never did ! Crap excuse What’s up in dreary Cavan and Monaghan to attract tourism , that’s not fishing (A good reason to go to Cavan btw) , for anyone , who can go elsewhere in the country ? Feck all Christ Longford managed to beat off other counties for that new holiday resort ... were the Cavan boys in bed ?
FrancieBrady wrote: » The Gardai didn't make an arrest in 8 years of crimes and intimidation in the Quinn case. FACT If I were an investor I'd be asking why has the area been abandoned by the enforcers of the law? You also make my point for me...'is there no crime elsewhere in the country' by mentioning the Kinahan's. There are also, major crime gangs elsewhere in the country, it isn't just a border phenomenon and never has been. Try and stay in the realms of fact and reality Randy.
a very cool kid wrote: » On the trimming thing - it's likely the synergy redundancies would be applied to people who come out of workforce and straight into social welfare - think mainly natural attrition - early retirement mainly, unions will not allow a pile of up front redundancies (remember the HSE when former has none for merged admin roles). On things being cheap - on the wrong side of Brexit and with a currency change inflation would be rampant up there. The workforce is not quite as attractive as in ROI (less educated generally, less integrated with US Corp culture for a start. You need to remember it took about 20 years of trying to get the multinational sector to take off with high end jobs in the ROI - It would be similar up there. On pensions I'm a little lost. ROI pays pensions in a pay as you go basis - is the UK not the same? We would still be liable for these to be fuded/pair one way or another?
Randy Archer wrote: » What criminal gangs are attacking members of companies in Leinster or Munster ? Even by your piss poor standards, that whataboutery is pretty weak Smuggling ? We are talking about locals acting like paramilitary kidnapping members of boards of companies that came in to ensure the company doesn’t fall, because your hero ****ed **** up. Who were they Francie ? Know any of the cowboys ? Blind eye ? that would be the locals, on both sides of the border loyal to the Quinn family. Funny, that wee Sean junior was happy with the border to dodge arrest by Southern authorities when it suited Blaming the border for that ? Lol, leave it out ! Girls on Moore St never needed much borders to sell their dodgy cigarettes Getting rid of the border ha ha ha . Oh dear . Criminal gangs don’t worry about borders. Kinahan and do have no problem smuggling in drugs by the sea . They don’t go around kidnapping business men though Foreign investors watch what happened with the Quinn group and go “**** that” It’s you and your pals talking about how I would get more investment in a UI . You trying to suggest that in the space of 3 hours , the PSNI And Gardai Had any reason that a crime was being committed (kidnap of a businessman ) and wouldn’t respond Or try ? That a border was the reason ? You can go back to crying about being abused now , you are done
FrancieBrady wrote: » No crime in Munster or Leinister? Big claim. Is there a border in the world that doesn't have smuggling problems? Getting rid of a border would wipe out so much activity...it's not rocket science is it? A lot of the problem along the border is that a blind eye is turned to smuggling...indeed it is suggested that part of the UK's Brexit solution would be to turn even more of a blind eye to it. Look what happened in the Quinn case, a blind eye was turned to serious criminal activity for years until a man got kidnapped and savagely beaten.
Truthvader wrote: » No interest in a United Ireland one way or the other but open to some of the arguments here. However already this thread is evidencing the trickle of toxic thinking particular to the criminlised leadership in Northern Ireland Have to laugh at the talk of multinationals investing. How do you think the Quinn Group investors are reporting their experiences - and thats only near the border. If Sinn Fein were to get near power their crazy adolescent economic policies would see no multinational come near the place. And thats before the criminal underbelly is considered
FrancieBrady wrote: » Just more abuse and bile Randy. It would be like trying to have a debate with one of Oliver Callan's caricatures rather than the politician he is having a swipe at. Stereotyping is not factual portrayal.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Are you capable of debate or is it just a vehicle for snide inaccurate commentary? I was never 'ok' with the conflict/war here. Nether the cause or the acts carried out during it.
Truthvader wrote: » Maybe the Quinn thugs thought they were "soldiers" so you shoukd be OK with that - or is it only a war if Uncle Gerry says it is
FrancieBrady wrote: » If they committed them, yes.
Bishop of hope wrote: » You are basically singinging the SF songbook on this. Their grasp of economics is suspect at best and your figures being based on that mantra are always going to favour the option you are in preference of. Most other studies have found that a UI is economically not viable at present at least.https://www.anphoblacht.com/contents/27623
Pkiernan wrote: » So shouldn't some IRA members be charged with war crimes?
