Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Truthvader wrote: »

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves,Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

You can take that drivel and try to sell it to Francie and the crew

Bingo! You are justifying the actions of a man supplied guns to terrorists because his motives seem acceptable to you.

War is hell. Collins and DeV didn't cover themselves in honour and glory.

I think each version of freedom fighter/terrorist was of it's time. It's too easy to look further back and romanticise the same things you criticse from the more recent.

Anyway, all SF have going for me is looking to build more social and affordable housing.
The IRA don't really come in to it. I think many feel that way and they are tired of FG and chums.
Sadly while the IRA fade, the crony incompetence of FF/ FG persists. That's how SF are doing well and hopefully other non-FF/FG types do too.
The Troubles are over chief.

efanton

SafeSurfer wrote: »

Where is your proof that Haughey was involved in gun running.

well if you know your history you would know that the Irish government authorised £100,000 for aid to those in Derry in the aftermath of the events of August 1969 (The battle of the bogside as it later became to be known).

Charles Haughey was at the time was Finance minister and a member of the sub committed formed to disperse that fund.
As Minister for Finance, it was Haughey’s responsibility that £100,000 was used for its intended purpose, but it was later proven that at least half of it to have been used for the purchase of weapons.

So whether Haughey was directly involved in the importation of weapons and gun running is relevant. It was him , and only him, that could have made that money available for others to purchase those weapons.

SafeSurfer

Truthvader wrote: »

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves, Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

You can take that drivel and try to sell it to Francie and the crew

Where is your proof that Haughey was involved in gun running.

Truthvader wrote: »

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves, Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

The vindication of some of the players had to come and there it is.

Zebra3 wrote: »

FFFG and Labour were more than happy for women to have their children stolen from them and to have women placed in horrific gulags at the behest of the pigs in the RC church.

Do those victims of terrorism not count?

WTF ?????????????

Zebra3 wrote: »

FFFG and Labour were more than happy for women to have their children stolen from them and to have women placed in horrific gulags at the behest of the pigs in the RC church.

Do those victims of terrorism not count?

SF did not have a presence here in Gov in those days did they?

Not saying it was right, it was despicable. Just making the point.

Zebra3

Truthvader wrote: »

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves, Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

You can take that drivel and try to sell it to Francie and the crew

FFFG and Labour were more than happy for women to have their children stolen from them and to have women placed in horrific gulags at the behest of the pigs in the RC church.

Do those victims of terrorism not count?

Bowie wrote: »

That's okay. No worries.
I said they got more support than FG.
That's what's behind all this feverish upset.
Who knows indeed. Fingers crossed for the SDs and PBP.

Good to see a reasonable and calm poster in these threads.

Bowie wrote: »

I see Haughey got a state one, gun running. Michael Collins, terrorism. DeValera fraud, terrorism...

Sorry not buying that either. Haughey was involved in gun running at a time when he felt that Catholic areas needed arms to defend themselves, Collins and Dev were involved in a war of sorts (and I believe some of what they did was airbrushed and has never been faced) but none of these people took a mother from her small children and buried her on a beach or put a bomb in a crowded pub to incinerate people they did not know or sank to the levels of depravity of Sinn Fein IRA - or their UVF UFF ETC counterparts on the other side.

You can take that drivel and try to sell it to Francie and the crew

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

That won't change my mind at all sorry now. Are SF in power, no. Gwan now. No one wants to get into bed with them with their baggage. Look at the current Gov.

But next election, who knows? Glad to be able to leave this country if that happens!

That's okay. No worries.
I said they got more support than FG.
That's what's behind all this feverish upset.
Who knows indeed. Fingers crossed for the SDs and PBP.

Osamabumdipper

very interesting thread this. Predictable the way its gone.

Bowie wrote: »

I see SF and the IRA as connected. Did you know some SF members were in the IRA? True story.
More members of the public voted for SF than FG. Oops.

That won't change my mind at all sorry now. Are SF in power, no. Gwan now. No one wants to get into bed with them with their baggage. Look at the current Gov.

But next election, who knows? Glad to be able to leave this country if that happens!

Truthvader wrote: »

More flakey dishonest efforts to justify the indefensible.

In every war there are sick people who take the opportunity to indulge themselves. My Lai in Vietnam, ethnic cleansing in Serbia, concentration camps Bloody Sunday, Korean rape Camps. Most of the soldiers do not participate; the ones that do are war criminals and should be treated as such

The " 'RA "as you so affectionately call them devoted themselves almost exclusively to subhuman criminal behaviour, murdering random innocent people who posed no threat to them, shooting unarmed farmers in front of their families, mutilating young people out for a night in pubs and crippling teenagers who did not show the right level of respect.

Whatever they are they are not soldiers and their pretendy uniforms, misuse of the Irish flag and comical funeral services for dead criminals certainly doesn't buy them any more credibility

I see Haughey got a state one, gun running. Michael Collins, terrorism. DeValera fraud, terrorism...
Do you think having Flanagan near the flag is a farce? I do. Each to his own. Flag belongs to the country.

Truthvader wrote: »

More flakey dishonest efforts to justify the indefensible.

In every war there are sick people who take the opportunity to indulge themselves. My Lai in Vietnam, ethnic cleansing in Serbia, concentration camps Bloody Sunday, Korean rape Camps. Most of the soldiers do not participate; the ones that do are war criminals and should be treated as such

The " 'RA "as you so affectionately call them devoted themselves almost exclusively to subhuman criminal behaviour, murdering random innocent people who posed no threat to them, shooting unarmed farmers in front of their families, mutilating young people out for a night in pubs and crippling teenagers who did not show the right level of respect.

Whatever they are they are not soldiers and their pretendy uniforms, misuse of the Irish flag and comical funeral services for dead criminals certainly doesn't buy them any more credibility

All war/conflict is subhuman Truth, there is no nice civil version.

Bowie wrote: »

I see SF and the IRA as connected. Did you know some SF members were in the IRA? True story.
More members of the public voted for SF than FG. Oops.

All 100% true and a huge indicator of a want of education or decency in Irish people

Finty Lemon wrote: »

In 2014 Bobby Storey issued an email to all SF councillors enforcing silence on the issue of sexual abuse allegations against IRA members.

Did you not get the memo?

A brave supporter and advocate for peace and gentle but wise old friend to Mary Lou's children

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Despicable organisation is SF, it tries so much to push forward the so called intellectuals like O'Broin to prove how progressive and educated some of their cohort are. And do their best to bring the middle class into their fold.

Few will be taken in by this, as the core vote couldn't even spell his name, and they are full of RA stuff anyway from the start.

The day someone changes my mind about this I will reconsider, but for now, NO. Too much involvement from NI. Ugh.

I see SF and the IRA as connected. Did you know some SF members were in the IRA? True story.
More members of the public voted for SF than FG. Oops.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Anyone could childishly pick out things other soldiers do in wars too Truth.

IMO it was a war, not in the conventional sense, but a war nonetheless. I always use conflict/war because this silly debate is tiresome.

More flakey dishonest efforts to justify the indefensible.

In every war there are sick people who take the opportunity to indulge themselves. My Lai in Vietnam, ethnic cleansing in Serbia, concentration camps Bloody Sunday, Korean rape Camps. Most of the soldiers do not participate; the ones that do are war criminals and should be treated as such

The " 'RA "as you so affectionately call them devoted themselves almost exclusively to subhuman criminal behaviour, murdering random innocent people who posed no threat to them, shooting unarmed farmers in front of their families, mutilating young people out for a night in pubs and crippling teenagers who did not show the right level of respect.

Whatever they are they are not soldiers and their pretendy uniforms, misuse of the Irish flag and comical funeral services for dead criminals certainly doesn't buy them any more credibility

Bowie wrote: »

Except the Irish Government, British Government and members of the general public, hard to gauge how many TBF. T'was a political conflict. The clue is in how it was stopped.

Good to see some kind of peace in fairnesss, and thanks.

But it is just under the surface for many who would really like to think otherwise and give the benefit of the doubt.

I gave up after the Storey funeral TBH, be there or be square, Corona doesn't matter.

Despicable organisation is SF, it tries so much to push forward the so called intellectuals like O'Broin to prove how progressive and educated some of their cohort are. And do their best to bring the middle class into their fold.

Few will be taken in by this, as the core vote couldn't even spell his name, and they are full of RA stuff anyway from the start.

The day someone changes my mind about this I will reconsider, but for now, NO. Too much involvement from NI. Ugh.

[Deleted User]

Bowie wrote: »

The clue is in how it was stopped.

They filled the provos with informers?

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Go to bed so and have a rest so from your incessant posting. The vast majority do not agree with you, and will not.

Except the Irish Government, British Government and members of the general public, hard to gauge how many TBF. T'was a political conflict. The clue is in how it was stopped.

Finty Lemon

In 2014 Bobby Storey issued an email to all SF councillors enforcing silence on the issue of sexual abuse allegations against IRA members.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Anyone could childishly pick out things other soldiers do in wars too Truth.

IMO it was a war, not in the conventional sense, but a war nonetheless. I always use conflict/war because this silly debate is tiresome.

Go to bed so and have a rest so from your incessant posting. The vast majority do not agree with you, and will not.

Finty Lemon

Cremation destroys DNA evidence

Truthvader wrote: »

Thats the big big lie Francie. There was no war. The "soldiers" were squealing about a shoot to kill policy when the Brits shot back: only willing to do "active service" if it involved burying a woman on a beach, planting a bomb in a pub full of young people or breaking the legs of terrified teenagers. Cruel criminal scum of the very lowest kind

So you wouldn't consider yourself a Shinner?

Truthvader wrote: »

Thats the big big lie Francie. There was no war. The "soldiers" were squealing about a shoot to kill policy when the Brits shot back: only willing to do "active service" if it involved burying a woman on a beach, planting a bomb in a pub full of young people or breaking the legs of terrified teenagers. Cruel criminal scum of the very lowest kind

Anyone could childishly pick out things other soldiers do in wars too Truth.

IMO it was a war, not in the conventional sense, but a war nonetheless. I always use conflict/war because this silly debate is tiresome.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I don't see them any differently to soldiers returning to normal life after a conflict/war.
Awful things are done in war and conflict, but millions have returned to normal and fulfilling lives after.

Thats the big big lie Francie. There was no war. The "soldiers" were squealing about a shoot to kill policy when the Brits shot back: only willing to do "active service" if it involved burying a woman on a beach, planting a bomb in a pub full of young people or breaking the legs of terrified teenagers. Cruel criminal scum of the very lowest kind