cnocbui wrote: » People generally don't want to acknowledge anything that would reduce the level of drama, such as facing up to obvious realities. No doubt we will see a rebuttal along the lines of Old Lives Matter.
bb1234567 wrote: » I'm not trying to create drama, TobeFrank said that COVID is only affecting those who would die soon anyway. This may apply to Europe perhaps because their populations are healthier ,I don't know, but it is a patently false statement to make regarding outbreaks in much of the rest of the world. Something which only kills elderly people who would die this year anyway does not kill 20,000 Brazilians under 60 in 3 months, there may be a myriad of reasons why this is the case and why younger people in Europe are fairing much better against the disease, but regardless it is a fact that COVID is a major cause of death of middle aged people in many parts of the world currently.
charlie14 wrote: » That HIQA report is speculation. They based it on data from RIP.ie but neglected to say that for the month of April research by the University of Maynooth and Limerick University using the same site showed that for April three counties worst effected by Covid-19, deaths were double with many others showing increases of 50% and more. HIQA probably feel they need to take a cut at the HSE for laying blame on them for nursing home deaths. I don`t get this weak heart or such should be regarded as the cause of death. If the death cert says Covid-19 then why is it not a Covid-19 death. If somebody had high blood pressure and was swept out to sea and drown, the cause of death is not going to be recorded as due to high blood pressure.
”Sweden's decision to carry on in the face of the pandemic led to thousands of more people dying than in neighboring countries — and didn't spare its economy, either. “They literally gained nothing,” one researcher said”
The large corona spread in Sweden was due to a "coincidence", says Director General of the Public Health Authority Johan Carlson. Therefore, we should not compare ourselves with the Nordic countries. - If you have not had this inflow that we have had, then the Nordic region is not our object of comparison, says Carlson.
tobefrank321 wrote: » If someone dies of terminal cancer but also had covid 19, what did they die of? There were excess deaths, there just wasn't the number of excess deaths equivalent to the number of covid 19 deaths. You're selecting rip.ie figures when it suits your argument but discounting them when it doesn't. Odd.
tobefrank321 wrote: » If someone dies of terminal cancer but also had covid 19, what did they die of?
biko wrote: » In Sweden they'd be counted as a cancer death. In Belgium they'd be counted as a Corona death.
the incredible pudding wrote: » That is not correct, in both cases they're counted as a Corona death.
biko wrote: » What makes you believe that?
JimmyVik wrote: » Dont forget an awful lot of people who would have otherwise got it and maybe died from it or have been helped along by it if they had another disease that killed them, didnt get the flu or other illnesses this year because of lockdown too.
the incredible pudding wrote: » Why do you think it otherwise?
Sweden has changed the approach it's taking to coronavirus tests, meaning the majority of people with symptoms will no longer be tested.
"Morphine has accelerated deaths in elderly coronary patients in Sweden" Nurse Sonja Aspinen talks about her shocking experiences Aspinen believes that most of the deaths of the elderly could have been avoided. Respiratory paralytic morphine has been prescribed in elderly patients with coronavirus disease in Sweden. In addition, they have not been given supplemental oxygen. Doctors have routinely made decisions about switching to end-of-life medication. These decisions have been made without even seeing the patient.
biko wrote: » Because Sweden only tested for COVID if you had symptoms, and then changed even thathttps://www.thelocal.se/20200320/fact-check-has-sweden-stopped-testing-people-for-the-coronavirus
As a rational approach, national authorities may consider prioritising testing in the following groups: hospitalised patients with severe respiratory infections; cases with acute respiratory infections in hospital or long-term care facilities; patients with acute respiratory infections or influenza-like illness in certain outpatient clinics or hospitals in order to assess the extent of virus circulation in the population; elderly people with underlying chronic medical conditions such as lung disease, cancer, heart failure, cerebrovascular disease, renal disease, liver disease, diabetes, and immunocompromising conditions.
JimmyVik wrote: » Dont forget an awful lot of people who would have otherwise got it and maybe died from it or have been helped along by it if they had another disease that killed them, didnt get the flu or other illnesses this year because of lockdown too. This will have to be factored into the equations when the dust settles as well. Lemsip sales are down
bb1234567 wrote: » Influenza activity is usually almost zero at this time of year in Europe , any noticeable flu outbreaks after April or before October are extremely uncommon
JimmyVik wrote: » We were locked down in March and April, no?
bb1234567 wrote: » Yeh might have blunted some late March flu activity perhaps As you can see the flu season was almost entirely over by the time of lockdown though . Maybe I'm wrong but I'm taking it that flu season duration in USA in thus CDC graph and Ireland are similar
biko wrote: » Finnish Public Service about the Swedish strategy:https://yle.fi/uutiset/3-11433976
tobefrank321 wrote: » Late March onwards. Flu season was virtually over by then. April was our worst month for covid deaths so its not like we did a great job eliminating infectious diseases that month. However, if we maintain some social distancing next winter and nursing homes maintain restrictions on visitors such as no touching, hugs or handshakes, flu season mightn't be too bad. I think there will be an awareness going forward of vulnerable categories to infectious diseases which is a good thing.
JimmyVik wrote: » People dont just die from flu complications in Flu season. My own grandfather went into in September from the Flu and died a couple of weeks later.
The real flu tends to happen during the winter. It usually spreads between October and April.
tobefrank321 wrote: » That is true as flu is a year round disease in the community, but when medical experts say flu season they mean when peak deaths occur.https://www2.hse.ie/conditions/flu/flu-symptoms-and-diagnosis.html Since you won't take my word
tobefrank321 wrote: » Countless cases like that also in Ireland unfortunately even for relatively young people. One example cited on the news in recent days was a guy with Down Syndrome who wasn't expected to recover from covid 19 and was given end of life care, without being brought near a hospital. You'd question why he wasn't brought to ICU. And imagine the outrage by some if it happened in Sweden. So we can't exactly throw stones at the Swedes.
