How will schools be able to go back in September?

Murple wrote: »

Will they be playing matches of close to 6 hours in length in two teams of 15 on a mini indoor playing pitch with a low ceiling and limited ventilation?

Doesn't take 6 hours to pick the virus up. Playing a sport where there is contact, gum shields going in and out of their mouths etc, think there is a bigger chance there

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

After-school activities in many schools are viewed as cheap child care. I run one in my school and parents will openly say this.

Daughter did art, was very good and we paid for it. Wasn't for childcare reasons, she just wanted to do it.

Their after school sports leaves alot to be desired, usually don't let them train there unless its qualified person

average_runner wrote: »

So no inter school sports but they are ok for kids to be playing all the sports in the evenings and weekends?

Well the wording of what we have been given so far would seem to rule it out. You don't just have a team picked from one class. Taking my own school as an example, I would have children from 4th, 5th and 6th on the team. Children from 3rd are allowed to train if they want to as well.

lulublue22

average_runner wrote: »

So no inter school sports but they are ok for kids to be playing all the sports in the evenings and weekends?

If HSE advice is to be followed no or is it expected that schools just don’t follow any sort of health and safety advice ?

lulublue22 wrote: »

If HSE advice is to be followed no or is it expected that schools just don’t follow any sort of health and safety advice ?

Its just an odd one from HSE to have sport at the weekend where kids from multiple schools and classes in a county playing against each other in different sports but then its not safe for the schools.

HSE not sending a clear message

History Queen

average_runner wrote: »

So no inter school sports but they are ok for kids to be playing all the sports in the evenings and weekends?

I'd say this is a supervision/breaking the bubbles or pods issue rather than an issue with the activity itself. If half the class are gone playing match who supervises other half etc

khalessi

meeeeh wrote: »

I don't think any other sector put out so many preconditions before talks on implementation even started. Department for education is poor but no other sector union or organisation approached things less constructively. Everyone else seems to be able suggest how things can be done, teachers unions come out first with what can't be done. I'm sorry but instead of criticizing media reaction you might look at unions. Being realistic only works when you are also constructive. Just being realistic and whinge doesn't resolve anything.

Other sectors didnt have to. PPE got for HCW, shops got screens masks gloves as necessary, hairdressers ppe, pubs restaurants ppe screens as necessary, gloves and face shields and social disctancing.
I was in the paediatric dentist this morning. We waited outside as asked until appointment time. Then temperature and hand sanitizer before entering. We had masks but would have been offered them. All toys in waiting gone. I wore mask for entiretly of visit as asked. CHild had mask on before and after examination. Dentist in ppe protective gown different to previous visits, heavier and also wore face visor and mask and gloves. We spent 25 minutes in there for examination. Chair I sat on was disinfected before and after usage and room was cleaned after use, before next appointment.

I was in a cafe an hour ago this was all present. I counted 2 seated areas outside one either side of door, 2 seater and 4 seater table, inside 6 x 2 seater tables and 2 x 4 seaters and screens between tables along with spit screen at counter where I paid. Max of 20 people seated inside and 6 outside all socially distanced seating.

Meanwhile people like yourself comment on teachers looking for equal treatment to protect staff and students. Schoolsa are places of education as well as workplaces and are entitled to equal protection other workplaces get.

It amazes me that people would complain about looking for basic hygiene such as soap and hot water or that we would look for guidelines to ensure that their children are safe too.

deiseindublin

average_runner wrote: »

So no inter school sports but they are ok for kids to be playing all the sports in the evenings and weekends?

You do know that schools and DoE have no control over student weekend activities, right?

deiseindublin wrote: »

You do know that schools and DoE have no control over student weekend activities, right?

It's like saying that cursing is kinda socially acceptable in some places so why not schools!!!!!!

Lillyfae

khalessi wrote: »

It amazes me that people would complain about looking for basic hygiene such as soap and hot water or that we would look for guidelines to ensure that their children are safe too.

Nobody is complaining about this. Everyone agrees that it should have been in place way before the pandemic. But in order to bring buildings up to standard, individual school management need to bring this to the attention of the DoE surely, and not just "soldier on". Ditto teachers using their own salaries in order to stock their classrooms with essential equipment.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Nobody is complaining about this. Everyone agrees that it should have been in place way before the pandemic. But in order to bring buildings up to standard, individual school management need to bring this to the attention of the DoE surely, and not just "soldier on". Ditto teachers using their own salaries in order to stock their classrooms with essential equipment.

Inspectors are constantly in and out of schools, so everyone is aware of things but the amount of things swept under the carpet is ridiculous. Just look at all those new schools that weren't built properly and needed remedial works over the past number of years. With the dept, if there is a corner to be cut them a blunt hacksaw is used and the edges aren't even smoothed out.

History Queen

Lillyfae wrote: »

Nobody is complaining about this. Everyone agrees that it should have been in place way before the pandemic. But in order to bring buildings up to standard, individual school management need to bring this to the attention of the DoE surely, and not just "soldier on". Ditto teachers using their own salaries in order to stock their classrooms with essential equipment.

I think you're missing the point. It is raised over and over and over again. Nothing changes. That's why we have to subsidise our classrooms ourselves and soldier on as you say.

BonsaiKitten

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Inspectors are constantly in and out of schools, so everyone is aware of things but the amount of things swept under the carpet is ridiculous. Just look at all those new schools that weren't built properly and needed remedial works over the past number of years. With the dept, if there is a corner to be cut them a blunt hacksaw is used and the edges aren't even smoothed out.

This. The inspectorate are teachers as well, they know what the reality of daily life in a school is. Some don't care. They're not all bad, you get great ones tbf but the Dept don't really want to listen to them either.

deiseindublin wrote: »

You do know that schools and DoE have no control over student weekend activities, right?

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

average_runner wrote: »

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

We have to abide by what we are given and the current ones indicate no extra curricular activities will be allowed when it comes to schools.

average_runner wrote: »

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

We have to abide by what we are given and the current ones indicate no extra curricular activities will be allowed when it comes to schools.

khalessi wrote: »

Meanwhile people like yourself comment on teachers looking for equal treatment to protect staff and students. Schoolsa are places of education as well as workplaces and are entitled to equal protection other workplaces get.

It amazes me that people would complain about looking for basic hygiene such as soap and hot water or that we would look for guidelines to ensure that their children are safe too.

lulublue22

average_runner wrote: »

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

I presume HSE guidelines are tailored for different sectors and not a one size fits all. The HSE have obviously decided that sport - by and large played outdoors with smaller numbers than school settings needs a certain set of guidelines to operate some what safely and that schools with a bigger cohort of individuals primarily indoors in relatively small spaces needs a different set of guidelines. I really don't see the difficulty with this.
Sporting activities are by and large optional and if one is not happy with how its operated then one doesn’t need to attend. That’s not an option for schooling. I presume that by and large sporting activities would have less immunocompromised children attending than a school situation or again at least the option of not participating.
I presume the underlying concept is to have schools reopen and as far as possible stay open. That might require stricter / different guidelines than a sporting activity.

khalessi wrote: »

Meanwhile people like yourself comment on teachers looking for equal treatment to protect staff and students. Schoolsa are places of education as well as workplaces and are entitled to equal protection other workplaces get.

It amazes me that people would complain about looking for basic hygiene such as soap and hot water or that we would look for guidelines to ensure that their children are safe too.

Don't pretend it's about looking for hand sanitiser, that's easily resolved. Also childcare managed to open. Because they are private business who get paid only when they are open they managed to find solutions (yes I know there are limits), shops, restaurant staff everyone else is managing. If the approach would be lets see how we can get back it would be fine. But it's not, the approach of unions is we are not coming back unless...

Don't bs me about equality, there are people who don't have the luxury to discuss guarantees because they won't be paid full if they don't come to work. Of all the things this is not about equality.

History Queen

meeeeh wrote: »

Don't pretend it's about looking for hand sanitiser, that's easily resolved. Also childcare managed to open. Because they are private business who get paid only when they are open they managed to find solutions (yes I know there are limits), shops, restaurant staff everyone else is managing. If the approach would be lets see how we can get back it would be fine. But it's not, the approach of unions is we are not coming back unless...

Ok. If it is so easy you tell us how it is all so easily solved... I'll save you the bother. The Deot need to pay for the extra safety measures. That solves the issues.

Millem

meeeeh wrote: »

Don't pretend it's about looking for hand sanitiser, that's easily resolved. Also childcare managed to open. Because they are private business who get paid only when they are open they managed to find solutions (yes I know there are limits), shops, restaurant staff everyone else is managing. If the approach would be lets see how we can get back it would be fine. But it's not, the approach of unions is we are not coming back unless...

Everyone has reopened with social distancing or more staff?

BonsaiKitten

average_runner wrote: »

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

Schools have been told that adopting pods and bubbles is likely to be the recommended approach. That means that by default, inter school sports don't happen. You are popping the bubbles by doing that.

Whatever my class do outside of school hours is not in my control. They can go mud wrestling en masse - still doesn't change the fact that in schools, we'll be mean to enforce the (rather woolly) guidance as best we can.

I already know that in my school our Science fair, art exhibition, Grandparents day, school visitors, mixed age Aistear work, paired reading, special occasion assemblies etc aren't happening. I presume swimming and inter school sports are unlikely as well. School tours may be off the cards too.

Now, before someone comes at me saying that above isn't a reason to not reopen, I'm aware of that and I would agree with you. I am sure a lot of kids will be disappointed but that's just how it will have to be.

Millem wrote: »

Everyone has reopened with social distancing or more staff?

There is some social distancing yes but nobody said that you can't do certain precautions and there are professions where social distancing is not possible and they still go to work.

BonsaiKitten

Teachers have repeatedly said that our concerns aren't about pay rises or not wanting to work, they are about lack of infrastructure and funding. It is not the job of the unions to solve these issues (even though they've put forward proposals). That comes down to the Dept.

Instead of complaining about teachers and schools, parents and the Ciara Kelly brigade should email their TDs and the Dept. Much more effective.

History Queen wrote: »

Ok. If it is so easy you tell us how it is all so easily solved... I'll save you the bother. The Deot need to pay for the extra safety measures. That solves the issues.

Hand sanitiser? I am sure that can be arranged. Half (probably most) of Europe was back to school without major issues.This is ideological fight not about the best interests of kids.

meeeeh wrote: »

Don't pretend it's about looking for hand sanitiser, that's easily resolved. Also childcare managed to open. Because they are private business who get paid only when they are open they managed to find solutions (yes I know there are limits), shops, restaurant staff everyone else is managing. If the approach would be lets see how we can get back it would be fine. But it's not, the approach of unions is we are not coming back unless...

Did you forget to tell us all what you think it's all about?

lulublue22 wrote: »

I presume HSE guidelines are tailored for different sectors and not a one size fits all. The HSE have obviously decided that sport - by and large played outdoors with smaller numbers than school settings needs a certain set of guidelines to operate some what safely and that schools with a bigger cohort of individuals primarily indoors in relatively small spaces needs a different set of guidelines. I really don't see the difficulty with this.
Sporting activities are by and large optional and if one is not happy with how its operated then one doesn’t need to attend. That’s not an option for schooling. I presume that by and large sporting activities would have less immunocompromised children attending than a school situation or again at least the option of not participating.
I presume the underlying concept is to have schools reopen and as far as possible stay open. That might require stricter / different guidelines than a sporting activity.

We were back with our gang last week. Full turnout of 22 from our gang of teenagers.

Was chatting to one of the parents from my class who is over a different team(younger) and they said there was only about half of their crew back the night before. Some parents hadn't bothered to do the online survey they are required to so were turned away. Others had text to say they weren't sure about returning so soon so would be how things played out.

Lillyfae

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

This. The inspectorate are teachers as well, they know what the reality of daily life in a school is. Some don't care. They're not all bad, you get great ones tbf but the Dept don't really want to listen to them either.

This cannot be the end of it. What is the point of your union at all? Working conditions are an absolute corner stone and they need to be fighting for you, not merely mentioning a problem and then fading back into the background. Anyone who is paying for school supplies out of their own pocket is fully endorsing being ignored by the DoE. Sure why would they listen when their employees are saving them thousands a year by begging a second (besides income tax) contribution from parents and giving their salary back to their employer in supplies....

History Queen wrote: »

Ok. If it is so easy you tell us how it is all so easily solved... I'll save you the bother. The Deot need to pay for the extra safety measures. That solves the issues.

Dept never pays for anything, the Irish people will pay for it all through our taxes.