How will schools be able to go back in September?

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I'm the shop steward in our school and get nothing except questions from the staff!!!

Er, what did you think was going to happen?

lulublue22

meeeeh wrote: »

Don't pretend it's about looking for hand sanitiser, that's easily resolved. Also childcare managed to open. Because they are private business who get paid only when they are open they managed to find solutions (yes I know there are limits), shops, restaurant staff everyone else is managing. If the approach would be lets see how we can get back it would be fine. But it's not, the approach of unions is we are not coming back unless...

I would be very interested in the solutions creches implemented to accommodate 850 children on a daily basis ? Thats the enrolment figures for our local primary school. If thats not feasible how about 230 - 300 children on a daily basis ? or look lets make it very easy a small primary school of 150 children . Every day adhering to social distancing without increased funding and staff.
I think you will find that you will struggle to find a comparative creche / child minding facility that deals with that amount of children on a daily basis. As I keep mentioning children not including staff.
But rant away with the sly digs re pay.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Why do you guys bother with them? My union wouldn't let this stuff go and the representative only get an extra vacation day per year as reward for being reps

I'm the shop steward in our school and get nothing except questions from the staff!!!

As someone already said, people seem to think that the teaching unions are this all powerful movement. If they were then we still wouldn't have pay inequality for people such as myself.

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Oh I know! It's an absolute disgrace. It's quite funny really as people have this perception that teacher unions are too powerful but in actual fact they're about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

Why do you guys bother with them? My union wouldn't let this stuff go and the representative only get an extra vacation day per year as reward for being reps

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

The problem of teachers self funding classrooms isn't unique to Ireland btw. I was reading a thread about classroom spends on /r/teachers the other day - an American teacher talked about spending $1800 on setting up for her first year. Note that that isn't accounting for materials during the year, that's kitting out the classroom prior to September. An extreme amount to spend but she didn't seem to be alone in it.

It really depends on what is deemed essential materials. A friend of mine is a teacher and when we went shopping once she was buying a load of stickers and sparkly things in the pound shop because she wanted to do a particular activity that she'd seen on the internet with the kids. A nice gesture but totally unnecessary to their actual education. Of course she can do what she likes with her own money but it wasn't a necessary expense and she knows that.

I'm assuming you all heard the lady from Denmark, that was on The Today show on RTE radio one this morning. She was discussing all the strict things they put in place to keep students and staff safe. Most important one according to her was the strictly enforced 2m between children at all times.

Lillyfae wrote: »

This cannot be the end of it. What is the point of your union at all? Working conditions are an absolute corner stone and they need to be fighting for you, not merely mentioning a problem and then fading back into the background. Anyone who is paying for school supplies out of their own pocket is fully endorsing being ignored by the DoE. Sure why would they listen when their employees are saving them thousands a year by begging a second (besides income tax) contribution from parents and giving their salary back to their employer in supplies....

Oh I know! It's an absolute disgrace. It's quite funny really as people have this perception that teacher unions are too powerful but in actual fact they're about as useful as a chocolate teapot.

The problem of teachers self funding classrooms isn't unique to Ireland btw. I was reading a thread about classroom spends on /r/teachers the other day - an American teacher talked about spending $1800 on setting up for her first year. Note that that isn't accounting for materials during the year, that's kitting out the classroom prior to September. An extreme amount to spend but she didn't seem to be alone in it.

I also wrote about my US student teacher earlier in this thread and how she was fundraising for classroom tables and chairs (DonorsChoose - which is specifically for teacher fundraisers and a big part of the culture over there). Now, want to know something outrageous? Some schools in the US are not allowed use DonorsChoose/Amazon wishlists, no budget is given and a fully kitted out classroom is expected in September. All out of the teachers pocket - again, not the norm but what a ****ed up system it is that allows it.

Millem

meeeeh wrote: »

There is some social distancing yes but nobody said that you can't do certain precautions and there are professions where social distancing is not possible and they still go to work.

I would love to know what professions have reopened back as normal with 1000+ people on the premises all together at once with no social distancing.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

When the teaching unions dare to go public over something you end up with the sh!tshow that is currently happening from some in the media. You can witness it from those on here who are tying to drive some agenda that we are looking for a payrise.

The media can't make it up if they say nothing more than:

Money (or order) for cleaning, refurbishment of buildings and extra facility staff and supplies needs to come centrally from the department of education.

But now it's July and this should have been top of the agenda in March, which it wasn't.

average_runner wrote: »

Dept never pays for anything, the Irish people will pay for it all through our taxes.

Would you prefer if we didn't have hand sanitizer in our schools so?

Lillyfae wrote: »

This cannot be the end of it. What is the point of your union at all? Working conditions are an absolute corner stone and they need to be fighting for you, not merely mentioning a problem and then fading back into the background. Anyone who is paying for school supplies out of their own pocket is fully endorsing being ignored by the DoE. Sure why would they listen when their employees are saving them thousands a year by begging a second (besides income tax) contribution from parents and giving their salary back to their employer in supplies....

When the teaching unions dare to go public over something you end up with the sh!tshow that is currently happening from some in the media. You can witness it from those on here who are tying to drive some agenda that we are looking for a payrise.

average_runner

History Queen wrote: »

Ok. If it is so easy you tell us how it is all so easily solved... I'll save you the bother. The Deot need to pay for the extra safety measures. That solves the issues.

Dept never pays for anything, the Irish people will pay for it all through our taxes.

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

This. The inspectorate are teachers as well, they know what the reality of daily life in a school is. Some don't care. They're not all bad, you get great ones tbf but the Dept don't really want to listen to them either.

This cannot be the end of it. What is the point of your union at all? Working conditions are an absolute corner stone and they need to be fighting for you, not merely mentioning a problem and then fading back into the background. Anyone who is paying for school supplies out of their own pocket is fully endorsing being ignored by the DoE. Sure why would they listen when their employees are saving them thousands a year by begging a second (besides income tax) contribution from parents and giving their salary back to their employer in supplies....

lulublue22 wrote: »

I presume HSE guidelines are tailored for different sectors and not a one size fits all. The HSE have obviously decided that sport - by and large played outdoors with smaller numbers than school settings needs a certain set of guidelines to operate some what safely and that schools with a bigger cohort of individuals primarily indoors in relatively small spaces needs a different set of guidelines. I really don't see the difficulty with this.
Sporting activities are by and large optional and if one is not happy with how its operated then one doesn’t need to attend. That’s not an option for schooling. I presume that by and large sporting activities would have less immunocompromised children attending than a school situation or again at least the option of not participating.
I presume the underlying concept is to have schools reopen and as far as possible stay open. That might require stricter / different guidelines than a sporting activity.

We were back with our gang last week. Full turnout of 22 from our gang of teenagers.

Was chatting to one of the parents from my class who is over a different team(younger) and they said there was only about half of their crew back the night before. Some parents hadn't bothered to do the online survey they are required to so were turned away. Others had text to say they weren't sure about returning so soon so would be how things played out.

meeeeh wrote: »

Don't pretend it's about looking for hand sanitiser, that's easily resolved. Also childcare managed to open. Because they are private business who get paid only when they are open they managed to find solutions (yes I know there are limits), shops, restaurant staff everyone else is managing. If the approach would be lets see how we can get back it would be fine. But it's not, the approach of unions is we are not coming back unless...

Did you forget to tell us all what you think it's all about?

History Queen wrote: »

Ok. If it is so easy you tell us how it is all so easily solved... I'll save you the bother. The Deot need to pay for the extra safety measures. That solves the issues.

Hand sanitiser? I am sure that can be arranged. Half (probably most) of Europe was back to school without major issues.This is ideological fight not about the best interests of kids.

Teachers have repeatedly said that our concerns aren't about pay rises or not wanting to work, they are about lack of infrastructure and funding. It is not the job of the unions to solve these issues (even though they've put forward proposals). That comes down to the Dept.

Instead of complaining about teachers and schools, parents and the Ciara Kelly brigade should email their TDs and the Dept. Much more effective.

Millem wrote: »

Everyone has reopened with social distancing or more staff?

There is some social distancing yes but nobody said that you can't do certain precautions and there are professions where social distancing is not possible and they still go to work.

average_runner wrote: »

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

Schools have been told that adopting pods and bubbles is likely to be the recommended approach. That means that by default, inter school sports don't happen. You are popping the bubbles by doing that.

Whatever my class do outside of school hours is not in my control. They can go mud wrestling en masse - still doesn't change the fact that in schools, we'll be mean to enforce the (rather woolly) guidance as best we can.

I already know that in my school our Science fair, art exhibition, Grandparents day, school visitors, mixed age Aistear work, paired reading, special occasion assemblies etc aren't happening. I presume swimming and inter school sports are unlikely as well. School tours may be off the cards too.

Now, before someone comes at me saying that above isn't a reason to not reopen, I'm aware of that and I would agree with you. I am sure a lot of kids will be disappointed but that's just how it will have to be.

Millem

meeeeh wrote: »

Don't pretend it's about looking for hand sanitiser, that's easily resolved. Also childcare managed to open. Because they are private business who get paid only when they are open they managed to find solutions (yes I know there are limits), shops, restaurant staff everyone else is managing. If the approach would be lets see how we can get back it would be fine. But it's not, the approach of unions is we are not coming back unless...

Everyone has reopened with social distancing or more staff?

History Queen

meeeeh wrote: »

Don't pretend it's about looking for hand sanitiser, that's easily resolved. Also childcare managed to open. Because they are private business who get paid only when they are open they managed to find solutions (yes I know there are limits), shops, restaurant staff everyone else is managing. If the approach would be lets see how we can get back it would be fine. But it's not, the approach of unions is we are not coming back unless...

Ok. If it is so easy you tell us how it is all so easily solved... I'll save you the bother. The Deot need to pay for the extra safety measures. That solves the issues.

khalessi wrote: »

Meanwhile people like yourself comment on teachers looking for equal treatment to protect staff and students. Schoolsa are places of education as well as workplaces and are entitled to equal protection other workplaces get.

It amazes me that people would complain about looking for basic hygiene such as soap and hot water or that we would look for guidelines to ensure that their children are safe too.

Don't pretend it's about looking for hand sanitiser, that's easily resolved. Also childcare managed to open. Because they are private business who get paid only when they are open they managed to find solutions (yes I know there are limits), shops, restaurant staff everyone else is managing. If the approach would be lets see how we can get back it would be fine. But it's not, the approach of unions is we are not coming back unless...

Don't bs me about equality, there are people who don't have the luxury to discuss guarantees because they won't be paid full if they don't come to work. Of all the things this is not about equality.

lulublue22

average_runner wrote: »

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

I presume HSE guidelines are tailored for different sectors and not a one size fits all. The HSE have obviously decided that sport - by and large played outdoors with smaller numbers than school settings needs a certain set of guidelines to operate some what safely and that schools with a bigger cohort of individuals primarily indoors in relatively small spaces needs a different set of guidelines. I really don't see the difficulty with this.
Sporting activities are by and large optional and if one is not happy with how its operated then one doesn’t need to attend. That’s not an option for schooling. I presume that by and large sporting activities would have less immunocompromised children attending than a school situation or again at least the option of not participating.
I presume the underlying concept is to have schools reopen and as far as possible stay open. That might require stricter / different guidelines than a sporting activity.

khalessi wrote: »

Meanwhile people like yourself comment on teachers looking for equal treatment to protect staff and students. Schoolsa are places of education as well as workplaces and are entitled to equal protection other workplaces get.

It amazes me that people would complain about looking for basic hygiene such as soap and hot water or that we would look for guidelines to ensure that their children are safe too.

average_runner wrote: »

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

We have to abide by what we are given and the current ones indicate no extra curricular activities will be allowed when it comes to schools.

average_runner wrote: »

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

We have to abide by what we are given and the current ones indicate no extra curricular activities will be allowed when it comes to schools.

average_runner

deiseindublin wrote: »

You do know that schools and DoE have no control over student weekend activities, right?

You do know it was from the HSE Guidelines?

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Inspectors are constantly in and out of schools, so everyone is aware of things but the amount of things swept under the carpet is ridiculous. Just look at all those new schools that weren't built properly and needed remedial works over the past number of years. With the dept, if there is a corner to be cut them a blunt hacksaw is used and the edges aren't even smoothed out.

This. The inspectorate are teachers as well, they know what the reality of daily life in a school is. Some don't care. They're not all bad, you get great ones tbf but the Dept don't really want to listen to them either.

History Queen

Lillyfae wrote: »

Nobody is complaining about this. Everyone agrees that it should have been in place way before the pandemic. But in order to bring buildings up to standard, individual school management need to bring this to the attention of the DoE surely, and not just "soldier on". Ditto teachers using their own salaries in order to stock their classrooms with essential equipment.

I think you're missing the point. It is raised over and over and over again. Nothing changes. That's why we have to subsidise our classrooms ourselves and soldier on as you say.