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Child Item

How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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Cyrus

combat14 wrote: »

my partners office (500 workers) will only have 15% of staff returning much later in the year .. they are having absolutely no rush back.. and even later in the year about December they will only let another 15% back ....
until things are clear with covid 19 they are working from home

how can teachers be expected to work for hours each day in small classrooms packed with 30+ students with no proper staff room to go to etc.

it's a court case waiting to happen when someone gets sick

Unrelated private enterprise where staff can work from home .

Anything else totally unrelated you care to share ?

HerrKuehn

combat14 wrote: »

my partners office (500 workers) will only have 15% of staff returning much later in the year .. they are having absolutely no rush back.. and even later in the year about December they will only let another 15% back ....
until things are clear with covid 19 they are working from home

how can teachers be expected to work for hours each day in small classrooms packed with 30+ students with no proper staff room to go to etc.

it's a court case waiting to happen when someone gets sick

Maybe your partner can work effectively from home. Teachers cannot. That really is whole point. Some jobs are more suitable to working from home, you wouldn't be able to get a painter and decorator to work remotely for example. I think if schools need to shut down locally because of a case, they should try to make the time up during the rest of the year. At least as best they can. The remote teaching doesn't work and there is no standard. There are too many issues with it, some teachers have GDPR concerns, others no broadband, no office etc. Weekly emails with worksheets and sections of "reading eggs" to work on are pointless. Any parent that would bother doing that stuff would be able to source the materials themselves.

Jim Root

It’s so easy to hide behind health & safety guidelines and unions while on full pay.

thomasdylan

Here's some info on the approach being taken in the Netherlands. The approach is workable here.

https://www.rivm.nl/en/novel-coronavirus-covid-19/children-and-covid-19

Children up to and including 12 years of age do not have to keep 1.5 metres apart from each other and from adults. This also applies to childcare and primary education.
Young people aged 13 until 18 years old (i.e. 17 years old and younger) do not have to stay 1.5 metres apart from each other. In secondary schools, this applies to all pupils, regardless of their age.
Since adults play a greater role in the spread of the novel coronavirus, teachers need to stay 1.5 metres apart from others as often as possible.

KerryConnor

I'm a teacher and finding the "us vs them" sentiment pushed by the irish times and other media disheartening. All the teachers I know want to return with full classes in late August in primary as anything else is unworkable.
What they also want is adequate funding and guidance to implement good hygiene practices, extra staff etc.
I moved from the IT sector to teaching 10 years ago and was initially shocked by lack of funding. I get 160 euro per year for resources which is usually gone in the first week of September buying a new mat for the kids or something I think essential, then I use my own money for pencils, books etc.
It also took me a while to get used to how understaffed schools are. A child in your class of 28 vomits and unless you leave class unattended to get mop etc, you don't have opportunity to clean up the vomit til breaktime.
Ive got used to this but know a fight with DES has to be made to ensure safety.. Not for teachers but for everyone in our community. We don't want schools to become sources of clusters.
Reading about an outbreak in schools in Israel I read of a 44 yo mother who ended up in ICU after her child brought virus home. 200 cases in her child's school.
Let's work together to make schools safe for good of our communities. And while we re at it we might improve our schools and catch up with other European countries who traditionally have invested far more in schools.

thomasdylan

combat14 wrote: »

how can teachers be expected to work for hours each day in small classrooms packed with 30+ students with no proper staff room to go to etc.

it's a court case waiting to happen when someone gets sick

It's not really.

From the early evidence teaching is very safe. Odds are if someone teaching gets covid in school it's going to be from another teacher not a student.

There are 1000s of people who have been working through the height of this in much higher risk jobs.

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

How about the principle and vice principal office?

Vice doesn't have an office and without a room how do you expect our principal to do their job?

khalessi

Hubertj wrote: »

That’s what it really comes down to. Unions holding the public to ransom for a pay increase. And this comes after them having months off work on full pay. Quite sickening really.

It is lovely how you are determined not to understand despite it being mentioned a few times it is the Departments unwillingness to invest in schools that is the problem. It is almost like you have a grudge against teachers.

The government are willing to pour millions into doing up the Cliffs of MOher and pour 360 million into cyclepaths fine, but not willing to invest in schools. They made a big deal of buying hand sanitizer but then then said the schools would have to buy it initially and be reimbursed.

downthemiddle

Jim Root wrote: »

It’s so easy to hide behind health & safety guidelines and unions while on full pay.

If you feel health and safety guidelines shouldn’t apply to schools contact your local TD and ask them to table a private members bill to that effect. I’m sure most teachers would be delighted to have their lunch in peace instead of having to do yard duty.

average_runner

combat14 wrote: »

my partners office (500 workers) will only have 15% of staff returning much later in the year .. they are having absolutely no rush back.. and even later in the year about December they will only let another 15% back ....
until things are clear with covid 19 they are working from home

how can teachers be expected to work for hours each day in small classrooms packed with 30+ students with no proper staff room to go to etc.

it's a court case waiting to happen when someone gets sick

That is because your partner can work from home. You can't teach a class of 8 year olds remotely.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Vice doesn't have an office and without a room how do you expect our principal to do their job?

Can a principal not work remotely like they have?

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

Can a principal not work remotely like they have?

So the principal works from home while the school is open? Heard it all now. You're just trolling.

Jim Root

downthemiddle wrote: »

If you feel health and safety guidelines shouldn’t apply to schools contact your local TD and ask them to table a private members bill to that effect. I’m sure most teachers would be delighted to have their lunch in peace instead of having to do yard duty.

Have any teachers contacted TDs about it?

ChelseaRentBoy

My wifes sister is SNA in a South Dublin school and she's close friends with a lot of the teachers. The general consensus is schools will not return in September at anyway near full capacity and may not return at all until late this year.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So the principal works from home while the school is open? Heard it all now. You're just trolling.

What can't go on in the school if the principal is not there and you can access him/her via zoom?

wirelessdude01

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

My wifes sister is SNA in a South Dublin school and she's close friends with a lot of the teachers. The general consensus is schools will not return in September at anyway near full capacity and may not return at all until late this year.

Primary or secondary?

Reason I ask is because my next door neighbour, who is a secondary teacher, said they've been told by principal to prepare for full remote teaching. More chance of primary being more 'properly' back as we have alot less movement and easier to implement these so called pods.

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

What can't go on in the school if the principal is not there and you can access him/her via zoom?

Only reason principal wouldn't be on site is if they're working from home due to an underlying condition. Schools needs the boss on site.

downthemiddle

Jim Root wrote: »

Have any teachers contacted TDs about it?

I have no idea. You are the one who wants to over ride health and safety guidelines.

downthemiddle

average_runner wrote: »

What can't go on in the school if the principal is not there and you can access him/her via zoom?

Your knowledge of how schools function is clearly below average. Your trolling requires support.

Mrsmum

I think if there is a heavy emphasis and I do mean hard as nails approach, on keeping kids home should they have any sniffle at all, then logically schools would actually be healthier environments than ever before. Which would be nice for teachers used to picking up numerous colds etc from the snotty nosed kids.
But that zero tolerance causes two other problems, 1) parents, this obviously includes teachers, being off at a moment's notice from their work commitments. There will have to be some instruction given from on high that employers will have to give as many flexible options as possible to parents in that situation but people also need to understand the demands of their job so perhaps work out of hours or owe the company the hours they lost etc.
And 2) If we are telling these children they can't go to school, then imo the lessons they missed must be made up. They are, imo, owed those lessons and are entitled to them. This would also apply to children with conditions that cannot go to school. (I might add here that some of the remote teaching my secondary school children got was superb. Some subject lend themselves to remote learning more than others, of course.) I hear alot about secondary teachers, heretofore, not getting enough hours to make a living so perhaps it could be coordinated now to get them to do the hours teaching the at-home kids and extra subs doing the same in primary school.
What did we all learn in school - “Ní neart go cur le chéile - something about pulling together !

deiseindublin

I dread to think how little next years LCs will have covered. At least 2020 students had all but 6 fragmented weeks of their schooling, probably when a lot of revision was kicking in.

Lillyfae

KerryConnor wrote: »

It also took me a while to get used to how understaffed schools are. A child in your class of 28 vomits and unless you leave class unattended to get mop etc, you don't have opportunity to clean up the vomit til breaktime.

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

downthemiddle

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

It is no exaggeration. Most primary schools have no caretaker. Many only have a part time secretarial service. These are the realities of education in Ireland.

History Queen

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

My local primary schools caretaker only works 5 hours per week. Lots of small schools have similar arrangements.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Only reason principal wouldn't be on site is if they're working from home due to an underlying condition. Schools needs the boss on site.

But these are special times, so why not possible?

Mrsmum

History Queen wrote: »

My local primary schools caretaker only works 5 hours per week. Lots of small schools have similar arrangements.

Part of the problem there is local politics though. Many parents love the idea of a small local school for their kids. I know there was a huge fight in the village I'm originally from to keep the local school and much grief when the battle was lost. Often you get local or you get modern facilities and that is coming home to roost now. Pluses too though, less kids, less spread of diseases.

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

Most schools have a part time caretaker who takes care of things in the evening. It's a part time job.

wirelessdude01

average_runner wrote: »

But these are special times, so why not possible?

So when you need the principal to deal with a discipline issuee you zoom them?

The lack of knowledge when it comes to practicalities in school is beginning to show.

Edit: Just occurred to me, who is minding the class while the teacher steps out to zoom the principal?

downthemiddle

average_runner wrote: »

But these are special times, so why not possible?

Perhaps you should explain to us what you think the role of the principal is. It would make it easier to understand your logic.

History Queen

average_runner wrote: »

But these are special times, so why not possible?

Well for one thing they are the DLP, or are we throwing away child protection measures too? How do you see them dealing with bullying/discipline/child welfare issues remotely?