How will schools be able to go back in September?

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

You seem to not realise this is literally the tip of the iceberg as far as issues.

A typical week could include a couple of pukers, one soiler, an outbreak of headlice, ringworm, impetigo, a child protection disclosure, a parent who is uncontactable when their child needs to go home sick, broken heating system, additional children to teach because of the substitute crisis, blocked toilets and an overloaded curriculum.
Other weeks things can get really bad.

Our cleaner has 15hrs a week to clean 8 mainstream classroom, 16 toilets, 2 SET rooms, an aistear room, staffroom, the corridors and the reception office.

KerryConnor

It's not exaggerating Lillyfae. Last year a child was sick at the back of the room and I threw newspaper on it, moved kids and dealt with it at break. It wasn't a big deal and that's how schools operate. Our caretaker (400 kids) works partime, split shift 7 til 10 then back for a couple hours in the afternoon. Every adult in a school is flat out supervising their own kids and duties. Took me a while to get used to that level of busyness when I started working in a school environment. That's how schools work and that's why extra staff would be essential to running a school (and I mean every child in all day, every day, which is what we all want and need) while coping with new challenges and restrictions Covid will place on staff.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Needs to be a person on site to solve problems, that should definitely be addressed. Sitting in a room with vomit all day is barbaric. Call another teacher, or the principal or whoever. Poor children.

Unfortunately this is a very small problem in the realms of Irish Education. There are many many more pressing issues all of which come down to lack of investment in education.

BonsaiKitten

Lillyfae wrote: »

Needs to be a person on site to solve problems, that should definitely be addressed. Sitting in a room with vomit all day is barbaric. Call another teacher, or the principal or whoever. Poor children.

Oh I agree but again this comes down to Govt funding like so many other issues mentioned in the thread. In many schools the principal is a teaching principal so have their own class to teach and as for other teachers...who would they be? Very few schools just have staff floating around the place.

Lack of staffing will be problematic for schools trying to keep up the cleaning next year. A lot of schools have cleaners only a few hours a week.

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

From September on if they offered a choice of either 350 covid payment to teachers (who for the first time since all this would be officially off work due to covid) or to work in unsafe conditions that are being suggested , I know which most people would choose. Then you'll have no teachers, no online teaching and lots of people on the covid payment and no childcare which seems to be the main issue for lots of working parents. Realistically a teacher could also go work in a local shop in safe conditions and wait this all out. I think people would want to improve their attitudes. If they think criticising and saying tough luck go do what you're told is going to get thousands of people to work in unsafe conditions. And before you mention all the people who have had to work in unsafe conditions, if people in the meat factories had been protected by issues being highlighted and the public supporting them then maybe there wouldnt have been thousands of cases there. People probably cared more that their burgers wouldnt go out of stock.

Even if that were used to try "force" teachers in to the classrooms (I say that with inverted commas as any teacher I know doesn't need forcing) it still won't get students back in to classrooms. Teachers will be there, but schools will not go against health and safety measures so that means the whole cohort of students wouldn't be in ie. part time education or blended learning. The only way to open schools fully is have the guidance change, allowing that to happen. OR the Dept could try fund schools to comply with the current guidance.

Dublingirl80

Lillyfae wrote: »

Needs to be a person on site to solve problems, that should definitely be addressed. Sitting in a room with vomit all day is barbaric. Call another teacher, or the principal or whoever. Poor children.

You seem to not realise this is literally the tip of the iceberg as far as issues.

Dublingirl80

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

It's not a caretakers job to clean vomit by the way. Teachers usually do it. Funny how the same people everyone calls so lazy happen to also clean up your kids vomit without anyone even realising it's a common enough part of the job.

Lillyfae

History Queen wrote: »

My local primary schools caretaker only works 5 hours per week. Lots of small schools have similar arrangements.

Needs to be a person on site to solve problems, that should definitely be addressed. Sitting in a room with vomit all day is barbaric. Call another teacher, or the principal or whoever. Poor children.

Dublingirl80

From September on if they offered a choice of either 350 covid payment to teachers (who for the first time since all this would be officially off work due to covid) or to work in unsafe conditions that are being suggested , I know which most people would choose. Then you'll have no teachers, no online teaching and lots of people on the covid payment and no childcare which seems to be the main issue for lots of working parents. Realistically a teacher could also go work in a local shop in safe conditions and wait this all out. I think people would want to improve their attitudes. If they think criticising and saying tough luck go do what you're told is going to get thousands of people to work in unsafe conditions. And before you mention all the people who have had to work in unsafe conditions, if people in the meat factories had been protected by issues being highlighted and the public supporting them then maybe there wouldnt have been thousands of cases there. People probably cared more that their burgers wouldnt go out of stock.

average_runner wrote: »

But these are special times, so why not possible?

Well for one thing they are the DLP, or are we throwing away child protection measures too? How do you see them dealing with bullying/discipline/child welfare issues remotely?

average_runner wrote: »

But these are special times, so why not possible?

Perhaps you should explain to us what you think the role of the principal is. It would make it easier to understand your logic.

average_runner wrote: »

But these are special times, so why not possible?

So when you need the principal to deal with a discipline issuee you zoom them?

The lack of knowledge when it comes to practicalities in school is beginning to show.

Edit: Just occurred to me, who is minding the class while the teacher steps out to zoom the principal?

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

Most schools have a part time caretaker who takes care of things in the evening. It's a part time job.

Mrsmum

History Queen wrote: »

My local primary schools caretaker only works 5 hours per week. Lots of small schools have similar arrangements.

Part of the problem there is local politics though. Many parents love the idea of a small local school for their kids. I know there was a huge fight in the village I'm originally from to keep the local school and much grief when the battle was lost. Often you get local or you get modern facilities and that is coming home to roost now. Pluses too though, less kids, less spread of diseases.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Only reason principal wouldn't be on site is if they're working from home due to an underlying condition. Schools needs the boss on site.

But these are special times, so why not possible?

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

My local primary schools caretaker only works 5 hours per week. Lots of small schools have similar arrangements.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

It is no exaggeration. Most primary schools have no caretaker. Many only have a part time secretarial service. These are the realities of education in Ireland.

Lillyfae

KerryConnor wrote: »

It also took me a while to get used to how understaffed schools are. A child in your class of 28 vomits and unless you leave class unattended to get mop etc, you don't have opportunity to clean up the vomit til breaktime.

Seriously, there’s no caretaker? Couldn’t you give them a quick buzz to let them know there’s vomit on the floor and they need to get their sawdust and mop?Schools are underfunded and buildings are seriously lacking, I’ll give you that, but
there is no need to exaggerate the situation.

deiseindublin

I dread to think how little next years LCs will have covered. At least 2020 students had all but 6 fragmented weeks of their schooling, probably when a lot of revision was kicking in.

Mrsmum

I think if there is a heavy emphasis and I do mean hard as nails approach, on keeping kids home should they have any sniffle at all, then logically schools would actually be healthier environments than ever before. Which would be nice for teachers used to picking up numerous colds etc from the snotty nosed kids.
But that zero tolerance causes two other problems, 1) parents, this obviously includes teachers, being off at a moment's notice from their work commitments. There will have to be some instruction given from on high that employers will have to give as many flexible options as possible to parents in that situation but people also need to understand the demands of their job so perhaps work out of hours or owe the company the hours they lost etc.
And 2) If we are telling these children they can't go to school, then imo the lessons they missed must be made up. They are, imo, owed those lessons and are entitled to them. This would also apply to children with conditions that cannot go to school. (I might add here that some of the remote teaching my secondary school children got was superb. Some subject lend themselves to remote learning more than others, of course.) I hear alot about secondary teachers, heretofore, not getting enough hours to make a living so perhaps it could be coordinated now to get them to do the hours teaching the at-home kids and extra subs doing the same in primary school.
What did we all learn in school - “Ní neart go cur le chéile - something about pulling together !

average_runner wrote: »

What can't go on in the school if the principal is not there and you can access him/her via zoom?

Your knowledge of how schools function is clearly below average. Your trolling requires support.

Jim Root wrote: »

Have any teachers contacted TDs about it?

I have no idea. You are the one who wants to over ride health and safety guidelines.

average_runner wrote: »

What can't go on in the school if the principal is not there and you can access him/her via zoom?

Only reason principal wouldn't be on site is if they're working from home due to an underlying condition. Schools needs the boss on site.

ChelseaRentBoy wrote: »

My wifes sister is SNA in a South Dublin school and she's close friends with a lot of the teachers. The general consensus is schools will not return in September at anyway near full capacity and may not return at all until late this year.

Primary or secondary?

Reason I ask is because my next door neighbour, who is a secondary teacher, said they've been told by principal to prepare for full remote teaching. More chance of primary being more 'properly' back as we have alot less movement and easier to implement these so called pods.

average_runner

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

So the principal works from home while the school is open? Heard it all now. You're just trolling.

What can't go on in the school if the principal is not there and you can access him/her via zoom?

ChelseaRentBoy

My wifes sister is SNA in a South Dublin school and she's close friends with a lot of the teachers. The general consensus is schools will not return in September at anyway near full capacity and may not return at all until late this year.

Jim Root

downthemiddle wrote: »

If you feel health and safety guidelines shouldn’t apply to schools contact your local TD and ask them to table a private members bill to that effect. I’m sure most teachers would be delighted to have their lunch in peace instead of having to do yard duty.

Have any teachers contacted TDs about it?