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Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Pkiernan

I haven't seen or heard anything from Mary Lou, Slab Murphy and other good Republicans in ages.

What's going on?

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PixieValentine

McMurphy wrote: »

Varadkar and pals using a funeral to score political points is hardly surprising but a new low all same.

I've no real opinion on Michelle O'Neill needing to step aside, or Mary Lou and the call for her to stay away from Leinster House, or any of the rest of that stuff. I think they should have had the sense to see this coming, and am mainly just baffled at the handling of it. I'd have thought they'd be smarter about it. They should just hold their hands up and say, yes, we were wrong, it's a really difficult situation etc. Telling people who are upset that they missed funerals of family and friends they loved because of restrictions that "one of the great marks of friendship is how you say goodbyes" is really, really tone-deaf and will not help your case.
But just to address this, to be fair, he actually didn't. His comment this morning was specifically, and only, about Michelle O'Neill being in Dublin when Martin's family stayed away. He said very clearly that he didn't want to talk about the funeral or make any comment on that, out of respect for the fact that it was a funeral. It's on video.

blanch152

hatrickpatrick wrote: »

What do you say to people who don't see much of a difference between Ireland's situation in 1916-21 and Northern Ireland's situation in 1968-98? If you regard them as foolish as well, what do you regard as being the difference?

It would take a very long post to explain the difference, but it encompasses political, economic, social and cultural differences for a start.

The Ireland of 1968 was a very different place to the Ireland of 1916, if you do not know that, you don't know your history. By 1973, the last few changes that were needed were achieved with the acknowledgement by the UK government in the Sunningdale agreement that the will of the majority of people in Northern Ireland was what counted.

Whatever discussion people can have about the justification for the IRA in the period 1968-1973, (and I can have that discussion and am open to some change in my view) there was no reason to pursue anything other than peaceful change post-1973. I am old enough to remember the 1970s well - the IRA were a scourge on this country.

FrancieBrady

Truthvader wrote: »

That is why the main parties want nothing to do with you and that is why you are incapable of understanding why

Unless that main party has more seats than SF in any potential coalition.

joeguevara

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It has been condemned across the political spectrum by all parties on the island apart from SF themselves. You see, this is classic example of how the moral compass of those sympathetic to SF differs from almost everyone else. To them, this is yet another attempt to smear the good name of the brave men and women of SF.

To others it's as clear as the nose on their face that this was a complete balls of a situation they created for themselves, and they now have absolutely no credibility in passing judgment or criticism on actions taken as a result of the biggest crisis to hit the world since WW2.

No other party in Ireland (indeed in Europe) would have sent their entire leadership team up to the funeral of a thug, terrorist, and bank robber.

Not a normal party.

But you forgot to mention that he was chairman of Sinn Fein in NI. It would have been remiss if his leadership wasn’t there. No it’s not a normal party, especially with where a large number if it’s people have come from but a party all the same.

FrancieBrady

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

It has been condemned across the political spectrum by all parties on the island apart from SF themselves. You see, this is classic example of how the moral compass of those sympathetic to SF differs from almost everyone else. To them, this is yet another attempt to smear the good name of the brave men and women of SF.

To others it's as clear as the nose on their face that this was a complete balls of a situation they created for themselves, and they now have absolutely no credibility in passing judgment or criticism on actions taken as a result of the biggest crisis to hit the world since WW2.

No other party in Ireland (indeed in Europe) would have sent their entire leadership team up to the funeral of a thug, terrorist, and bank robber.

Not a normal party.

There'd have been nobody at Mandela's funeral either had he died while he was bombing and engaging in operations against an oppressive regime.

I agree, SF are not a normal party, they have evolved out of an extraordinary conflict/war and divided society.
And blamed for some for all the ills of that society.

Truthvader

Bowie wrote: »

Depends on your definition doesn't it?
I get you are hung up on the IRA like it's a big secret. Run tell the villagers!

No it doesn't. And the problem is that you and your fellow Sinn Fein supporters simply don't know that.The ingrained criminality will mean that even in the times of the everlasting "peace process" you will not be able to stop yourselves which is why every now and then your members will kill someone, torture someone, steal something, throw a bottle at a Guard, launder diesel and generally betray your sub human bedrock. That is why the main parties want nothing to do with you and that is why you are incapable of understanding why

hatrickpatrick

Mortelaro wrote: »

Repeatedly pointed out,Garda Horkans funeral was a State funeral so an entirely different case altogether

It's a moronic argument though. If the concern is about social distancing and the spread of COVID and not about anything else, then the same arguments apply. The virus doesn't give a f*ck who someone was or why people are gathering in a non socially distant manner, so either both sides are wrong and should be both criticised and told to stay away from Dáil business etc until they're past the incubation period for the virus, or neither. It's that simple.

As far as I'm concerned, both sides should be. Ignoring social distancing in the manner it was ignored for the sake of photo ops is moronically stupid and an insult to everyone who has suffered because of the nationwide quarantine. But to act as if the identity of the deceased justifies one and not the other when the controversy is supposedly about the transmission of COVID is essentially letting the mask slip that that's not really why people are bashing SF here, they're just using COVID as an excuse to do so.

JohnnyFlash

McMurphy wrote: »

Forget the uda and loyalists with the flute bands, you don't think there's a bang of hypocrisy coming from those whinging about the social distancing guidelines being ignored at the Sinn Fein funeral and not at the Gardai funeral?

Both groups of people were wrong, and one doesn't cancel the other out.

Varadkar and pals using a funeral to score political points is hardly surprising but a new low all same.

It has been condemned across the political spectrum by all parties on the island apart from SF themselves. You see, this is classic example of how the moral compass of those sympathetic to SF differs from almost everyone else. To them, this is yet another attempt to smear the good name of the brave men and women of SF.

To others it's as clear as the nose on their face that this was a complete balls of a situation they created for themselves, and they now have absolutely no credibility in passing judgment or criticism on actions taken as a result of the biggest crisis to hit the world since WW2.

No other party in Ireland (indeed in Europe) would have sent their entire leadership team up to the funeral of a thug, terrorist, and bank robber.

Not a normal party.

joeguevara

Mortelaro wrote: »

Repeatedly pointed out,Garda Horkans funeral was a State funeral so an entirely different case altogether

Well I reckon Mr Storey would have had much more of a personal relationship with attendees at his funeral than the hero Garda had at his, from political parties.

But all irrelevant. Why not move on and see what we can learn rather than constant bitching and moaning. Been going on for so long and no one has even remotely changed their mind.

hatrickpatrick

joeguevara wrote: »

But why do parties do this political point scoring? Because they think it’s what their supporters want. It’s mirrored in this thread. If voters told them to cop on it would stop.

I'd argue that they already have. This year's election result was at least in part a reaction and push-back against the establishment's collective erasure of Sinn Fein and their ideology from the political "table", everything from the relentless hit pieces aired by the media (with no reciprocation) to MLMD originally being excluded from the leaders' debate on RTE.

Obviously it wasn't the only factor or even one of the main factors, but the collective "Sinn Fein are the wrong choice and aren't a legitimate political party" from both other parties and from the supposed-to-be-impartial media really pissed people off. And rightly so. With regard to Sinn Féin, the Irish media were just as bad during this election cycle as the US media generally is with regard to partisanship (CNN - Dems can do no wrong, Fox - Repubs can do no wrong). The election result was at least in part a pushback against this. I've long held that the results of the Brexit and Trump '16 votes were similar - people don't like being told what to do in a "we live in a democracy, but if you vote this way you're wrong" kind of sense.

And before anyone accuses me of making these points out of my own bias, I assure you that it frustrates me just as much when "my own side" do it. I can probably dig up countless posts from myself here on Boards during the Marriage Equality and Repeal referenda, both of which I supported a "yes" vote in, lamenting the amount of aggressive "vote this way or you're a bad person" style campaigning from some in my own camp. I really do feel that the condescending chastisement of SF voters and even undecided voters rubbed people up the wrong way during and especially after the election, wherein FG were facilitated by the media (again in a way that SF never has been) in running multiple "the people only voted the way they did because they're too ignorant to understand that we were the right choice" style hit pieces.

The voters have already told politicians to cut out this kind of sh!te. It's the politicians and the commentariat who have so far failed to get the message.

Mortelaro

Bowie wrote: »

If the UDA or the Garda did the same it might get the same hypocritical outrage Horkan's funeral got. Have you posted your outrage for the Garda? Wouldn't want to be a hypocrite right?

Repeatedly pointed out,Garda Horkans funeral was a State funeral so an entirely different case altogether

ThunbergsAreGo

McMurphy wrote: »

Forget the uda and loyalists with the flute bands, you don't think there's a bang of hypocrisy coming from those whinging about the social distancing guidelines being ignored at the Sinn Fein funeral and not at the Gardai funeral?

Both groups of people were wrong, and one doesn't cancel the other out.

Varadkar and pals using a funeral to score political points is hardly surprising but a new low all same.

Do you think it was wrong or irresponsible?

And, as with Cummings, a one rule you another for me action?

joeguevara

McMurphy wrote: »

Forget the uda and loyalists with the flute bands, you don't think there's a bang of hypocrisy coming from those whinging about the social distancing guidelines being ignored at the Sinn Fein funeral and not at the Gardai funeral?

Both groups of people were wrong, and one doesn't cancel the other out.

Varadkar and pals using a funeral to score political points is hardly surprising but a new low all same.

But why do parties do this political point scoring? Because they think it’s what their supporters want. It’s mirrored in this thread. If voters told them to cop on it would stop.

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

The whiteshirts is a good label for them.

I see Charlie Flanagan was in a white shirt and black tie at the funeral of Garda Horkan, I don't think he'd be allowed join.

McMurphy

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Monumentally stupid decision by SF. SF in both the North and South now have absolutely no creditability when it comes to discussing the pandemic; the distinct possibility of a new spike in cases in the coming weeks, or the measures being taken to control it.

Can you imagine the outrage by the Shinnerbots on Twitter and the Journal if the UDA had organised a funeral, cordoned off an area of Belfast to hold it, had most of the big wigs in the DUP march behind the coffin, taking selfies at the grave afterwards, while the streets of the Shankill were covered in tough looking fúckers with buzzcuts and dressed in white shirts, black tie, and leather jackets?

The utter hypocrisy by SF and their online army really is astonishing to witness. Complete clusterfúck of a situation, and everyone knows it.

Forget the uda and loyalists with the flute bands, you don't think there's a bang of hypocrisy coming from those whinging about the social distancing guidelines being ignored at the Sinn Fein funeral and not at the Gardai funeral?

Both groups of people were wrong, and one doesn't cancel the other out.

Varadkar and pals using a funeral to score political points is hardly surprising but a new low all same.

hatrickpatrick

blanch152 wrote: »

There are quite a few who don't get it.

The most astonishing are those who equate the current living memories of Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Bobby Storey and the likes with historical figures from the past. They really don't get the difference between 1916, 1921, 1930 and today, and that the standards of today are what matters when you apply them to the people of today.

Once you do that, you realise that Sinn Fein are at least 30 years away from being considered suitable for government if they continue on their current path. They don't realise that a suitable apology for their past support of the IRA and an acknowledgement that the IRA were wrong (particularly post-Sunningdale) is the minimum of what is needed to allow them to be even considered as a suitable party of government for the vast majority of people in the South.

What do you say to people who don't see much of a difference between Ireland's situation in 1916-21 and Northern Ireland's situation in 1968-98? If you regard them as foolish as well, what do you regard as being the difference?

FrancieBrady

blanch152 wrote: »

There are quite a few who don't get it.

The most astonishing are those who equate the current living memories of Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Bobby Storey and the likes with historical figures from the past. They really don't get the difference between 1916, 1921, 1930 and today, and that the standards of today are what matters when you apply them to the people of today.

Once you do that, you realise that Sinn Fein are at least 30 years away from being considered suitable for government if they continue on their current path. They don't realise that a suitable apology for their past support of the IRA and an acknowledgement that the IRA were wrong (particularly post-Sunningdale) is the minimum of what is needed to allow them to be even considered as a suitable party of government for the vast majority of people in the South.

No blanch, that is just the criteria you have for allowing people to govern.

joeguevara

Like I honestly don’t think people think SF supporters are terrorists and I don’t think people think FG supporters are Fascist. Isn’t it time we cop on and stop being reactionary due to what we see on social media. Similarly politicians should stop governing by point scoring. Who does it help. Division isn’t working. Time for something new?

James Brown

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Monumentally stupid decision by SF. SF in both the North and South now have absolutely no creditability when it comes to discussing the pandemic; the distinct possibility of a new spike in cases in the coming weeks, or the measures being taken to control it.

Can you imagine the outrage by the Shinnerbots on Twitter and the Journal if the UDA had organised a funeral, cordoned off an area of Belfast to hold it, had most of the big wigs in the DUP march behind the coffin, taking selfies at the grave afterwards, while the streets of the Shankill were covered in tough looking fúckers with buzzcuts and dressed in white shirts, black tie, and leather jackets?

The utter hypocrisy by SF and their online army really is astonishing to witness. Complete clusterfúck of a situation, and everyone knows it.

The outrage is layed on thick here. Your right to be completely outraged if you choose of course.
I think they should have social distanced.
That's it really.
If the UDA or the Garda did the same it might get the same hypocritical outrage Horkan's funeral got. Have you posted your outrage for the Garda? Wouldn't want to be a hypocrite right?

joeguevara

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Monumentally stupid decision by SF. SF in both the North and South now have absolutely no creditability when it comes to discussing the pandemic; the distinct possibility of a new spike in cases in the coming weeks, or the measures being taken to control it.

Can you imagine the outrage by the Shinnerbots on Twitter and the Journal if the UDA had organised a funeral, cordoned off an area of Belfast to hold it, had most of the big wigs in the DUP march behind the coffin, taking selfies at the grave afterwards, while the streets of the Shankill were covered in tough looking fúckers with buzzcuts and dressed in white shirts, black tie, and leather jackets?

The utter hypocrisy by SF and their online army really is astonishing to witness. Complete clusterfúck of a situation, and everyone knows it.

Do you know what’s stupid is that real issues are not being discussed and tit for tat stupid things are. Perhaps if people stopped commenting (I include myself in this too) on pointless things like going to a funeral or sunbathing in a park and discuss things like implementing housing policies, educating people in deis areas, integrating minorities effectively. Move away from point scoring politics and more into meaningful improvement. We are all intelligent people here and far too much time is being given to bs.

blanch152

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Monumentally stupid decision by SF. SF in both the North and South now have absolutely no creditability when it comes to discussing the pandemic; the distinct possibility of a new spike in cases in the coming weeks, or the measures being taken to control it.

Can you imagine the outrage by the Shinnerbots on Twitter and the Journal if the UDA had organised a funeral, cordoned off an area of Belfast to hold it, had most of the big wigs in the DUP march behind the coffin, taking selfies at the grave afterwards, while the streets of the Shankill were covered in tough looking fúckers with buzzcuts and dressed in white shirts, black tie, and leather jackets?

The utter hypocrisy by SF and their online army really is astonishing to witness. Complete clusterfúck of a situation, and everyone knows it.

The whiteshirts is a good label for them.

blanch152

Truthvader wrote: »

You just dont get it. Its not OK to murder. And its not OK to celebrate and glorify sociopaths. People who do so are not fit to govern anything

There are quite a few who don't get it.

The most astonishing are those who equate the current living memories of Dessie Ellis, Martin Ferris, Bobby Storey and the likes with historical figures from the past. They really don't get the difference between 1916, 1921, 1930 and today, and that the standards of today are what matters when you apply them to the people of today.

Once you do that, you realise that Sinn Fein are at least 30 years away from being considered suitable for government if they continue on their current path. They don't realise that a suitable apology for their past support of the IRA and an acknowledgement that the IRA were wrong (particularly post-Sunningdale) is the minimum of what is needed to allow them to be even considered as a suitable party of government for the vast majority of people in the South.

JohnnyFlash

Monumentally stupid decision by SF. SF in both the North and South now have absolutely no creditability when it comes to discussing the pandemic; the distinct possibility of a new spike in cases in the coming weeks, or the measures being taken to control it.

Can you imagine the outrage by the Shinnerbots on Twitter and the Journal if the UDA had organised a funeral, cordoned off an area of Belfast to hold it, had most of the big wigs in the DUP march behind the coffin, taking selfies at the grave afterwards, while the streets of the Shankill were covered in tough looking fúckers with buzzcuts and dressed in white shirts, black tie, and leather jackets?

The utter hypocrisy by SF and their online army really is astonishing to witness. Complete clusterfúck of a situation, and everyone knows it.

joeguevara

Bowie wrote: »

Yes, I do that a lot. On the phone. So what?
I responded to a comment, you jumped in. Yes I did to show my point. Read my comment. It's all there.

No. It’s not. Show me. If you can’t retract. Fairly easy,

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

You just dont get it. Its not OK to murder. And its not OK to celebrate and glorify sociopaths. People who do so are not fit to govern anything

Depends on your definition doesn't it?
I get you are hung up on the IRA like it's a big secret. Run tell the villagers!

Truthvader

Bowie wrote: »

SF are very proud of their IRA connection as seen by a funeral of a former member the other day

If you vote SF, do you decide based on a different time, before the peace process, in a different jurisdiction or based on the obvious clear IRA links within the party?
If voting FG do you do so because of the fascist roots, the antisemetism of Oliver J. Flanagan, etc.?
If you vote FF, do you do so because Haughey was a swell guy?
Or in any case vote for the party putting forward the policies appeal to you most? I would suggest that's what many people do.

MM said the other day that civil war politics was over. My understanding is the peace process began with the cessation of IRA activities sealed with the GFA back in the nineties.
Some people, like myself will give any party a vote if they've policies they like.

You just dont get it. Its not OK to murder. And its not OK to celebrate and glorify sociopaths. People who do so are not fit to govern anything

James Brown

joeguevara wrote: »

Ninja edit.

You brought up craziness about fascism. If you are going to explain your comment do so. I’d like to see the reasoning to tell you the truth,

Yes, I do that a lot. On the phone. So what?
I responded to a comment, you jumped in. Yes I did to show my point. Read my comment. It's all there.

James Brown

Truthvader wrote: »

Ehh......... How about this from today's Times

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/to-leave-sinn-f%C3%A9in-is-to-leave-the-ira-adams-told-ardfheis-1.2907103

SF are very proud of their IRA connection as seen by a funeral of a former member the other day

If you vote SF, do you decide based on a different time, before the peace process, in a different jurisdiction or based on the obvious clear IRA links within the party?
If voting FG do you do so because of the fascist roots, the antisemetism of Oliver J. Flanagan, etc.?
If you vote FF, do you do so because Haughey was a swell guy?
Or in any case vote for the party putting forward the policies appeal to you most? I would suggest that's what many people do.

MM said the other day that civil war politics was over. My understanding is the peace process began with the cessation of IRA activities sealed with the GFA back in the nineties.
Some people, like myself will give any party a vote if they've policies they like.

joeguevara

Bowie wrote: »

Your questioned a comment I made to another poster. I was explaining my comment.

Ninja edit.

You brought up craziness about fascism. If you are going to explain your comment do so. I’d like to see the reasoning to tell you the truth,

James Brown

joeguevara wrote: »

when have I ever said anything about IRA and SF. I think you have me confused with someone else bud.

Your questioned a comment I made to another poster. I was explaining my comment.