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Child Item

How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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ldy4mxonucwsq6

Hubertj wrote: »

Read some of the statements from teachers unions this evening. Very disappointing they have taken such an adversarial position although not surprised based on the track record of some of them. Guidance has been issued based on public health advise and somewhat unqualified union representative doubts it. I hope teachers are smart enough to see this for what it is.

The guidelines are extremely detailed and appear to be in line with what we've seen so far in terms of precautions. Will be interesting to see what the union demands but they'd do well to read the public appetite for such moves.

As it stands teachers will already be back to work after the final phase of lifting restrictions.

Plenty of people have been working throughout and certainly the wheels of the economy have well and truly started to turn again.

Minority of people now not back to work at this stage, did we see union outcry and strikes in any other sector throughout the lockdown here? Nope can't say that we did, they should listen to their members but should also remember that every single person in the country has had to make adjustments.

wirelessdude01

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Yes, that's a very common situation unfortunately. And that is before you start to factor in things like kids being able to see the board from where they sit or the teacher being able to keep 2m distance!

Or the various mammy's saying that their Johnny can't sit in the same group at Michael or Timmy or having to take family politics into account.

BonsaiKitten

TheTorment wrote: »

I know of a teacher with 34 in the class next September. Said that on a normal year that they would struggle to fit that many into the classroom.
They recently fitted out the classroom for social distancing to see what it could hold.
At 2m they could have 10 in the class
At 1m that rose to 16

I'm sure that their class is not unique to this situation of overcrowded classes.

Don't know how they will manage come September

Yes, that's a very common situation unfortunately. And that is before you start to factor in things like kids being able to see the board from where they sit or the teacher being able to keep 2m distance!

khalessi

Hubertj wrote: »

Read some of the statements from teachers unions this evening. Very disappointing they have taken such an adversarial position although not surprised based on the track record of some of them. Guidance has been issued based on public health advise and somewhat unqualified union representative doubts it. I hope teachers are smart enough to see this for what it is.

It is unions job to look after the health and safety of their workers. Are you sying they are wrong? Hold off union ire for the moment

Hubertj

Read some of the statements from teachers unions this evening. Very disappointing they have taken such an adversarial position although not surprised based on the track record of some of them. Guidance has been issued based on public health advise and somewhat unqualified union representative doubts it. I hope teachers are smart enough to see this for what it is.

[Deleted User]

I know of a teacher with 34 in the class next September. Said that on a normal year that they would struggle to fit that many into the classroom.
They recently fitted out the classroom for social distancing to see what it could hold.
At 2m they could have 10 in the class
At 1m that rose to 16

I'm sure that their class is not unique to this situation of overcrowded classes.

Don't know how they will manage come September

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Van.Bosch wrote: »

My read of that is up to and including second class there is no restrictions and all students can go back full time from September. Am I reading it right?

Yes looks that way, although there is emphasis on keeping the class 'group' together where practicable across all ages so maybe the pod approach for younger kids anyway.

There's a lot to take in from what's been published, it will definitely be a challenge for schools.

I have no idea what it will mean practically, will there be school for half the class for half of the week, maybe 2 days of school per week?

In that case I may throw in the towel on my day job and become a childminder or home school teacher

at least there would be a demand for it.

Six months of juggling shifts by September is enough for me and I'd say even the most flexible employer has their limit. Most are back working already and certainly will be by September.

It is interim guidelines so again subject to change but there's lots in it right down to the type of soap and hand sanitiser/cleaning materials to use.

brookers

boggerman1 wrote: »

We all know the teacher unions will look for more money.bet though once the school yr is up and going a lot of teachers won’t have any problems giving grinds.life has to get back to normal and what happens if the miracle vaccine is never got.stay hidden away forever and destroy the futures of generations of children.

You know what though, my kids really relaxed when off, they are in a very bright class and feel really anxious going into school, particularly over maths etc, they really enjoyed the time off and I dont see any of their friends suffering. I dont think their futures are being destroyed. If anything i feel great things will happen in their lifetime, this is just a few months in a long life hopefully. BTW I missed loads of school in primary, did no homework as my mother was too busy and my father was out all day. It is not a teachers fault if working parents have no place to put their children when working or that unfortunately there are parents out there who dont give a flying hoot about their kids and their welfare.

khalessi

boggerman1 wrote: »

We all know the teacher unions will look for more money.bet though once the school yr is up and going a lot of teachers won’t have any problems giving grinds.life has to get back to normal and what happens if the miracle vaccine is never got.stay hidden away forever and destroy the futures of generations of children.

Stop trolling if you have nothing useful to say just go away.
Thank you for your input.

boggerman1

khalessi wrote: »

Love this attitude. That unionsteachers looking to ensure safety of their workforce will be solved by money, despite fact youre wrong.

Thank you for your enlightening post, it was thoroughly enjoying.

It is interesting you dont think the same of nurses or any other job that asks for health and safety.

We all know the teacher unions will look for more money.bet though once the school yr is up and going a lot of teachers won’t have any problems giving grinds.life has to get back to normal and what happens if the miracle vaccine is never got.stay hidden away forever and destroy the futures of generations of children.

wirelessdude01

boggerman1 wrote: »

More nonsense or is it box ticking for the schools to reopen in September.the school’s should be reopening as normal in august but my guess is that the teacher unions will sabre rattle and the whole thing will be solved by money being threw at them.

Did you come up with that original thought all on your own?

Funny how these unions still haven't got me pay parity then and that I'm still an LPT.

pwurple

brookers wrote: »

can we just assume the children wont get school for the whole week but perhaps a couple of days and just hope things improve. Im already of that mind and ready for another term of home schooling a couple of mornings. If i feel the situation is not safe and things are looking a bit hairy with the virus I will take them out.

I see where you're coming from , but where do you propose the kids go for the days they are not at school? Maybe they'll be where every other kid in the country is at the moment during the day. Either over in their friends houses, or with their grannies and grandads. They're all mixing either way now. And you'll have that huge stress for all caused by 'homeschooling', (Which it is NOT btw, if you talk to any real homeschooler, they are usually out visiting museums, taking trips etc).

It's also harmful and particularly damaging to children from disadvantaged homes, where there are parents who don't have the ability or even don't want to do it. Or those who have to work full time and don't have capacity to teach. Or don't have the resources. Not everyone has laptops, printers, supplies, high speed broadband to download activities or even the workspace to do it. Try being homeschooled on the floor of a caravan.

Or maybe try to be a widowed nurse, working 12 hour night shifts and then expected to teach 3 children of different ages.

Now put special needs on top of that.

Also, are you in any was reassured by the exceptionally low numbers of cases at the moment? 7 cases a day? 1 death? About a thousand people die in ireland from other causes every month.

We'll see in a few weeks is there some giant spike, hopefully not, but if the numbers are still at less than 10 cases a day by September, then it's under control. Why continue to damage our kids for that?

Put children's needs at the core of it. Followed by supporting our families.

brookers

Strath2020 wrote: »

There is no social distancing going on locally here with teens so September in schools will be no different. The beaches and parks are packed. I think teachers are getting a hard time. They deserve to be provided with facial shields if they want them (at the very minimum) as they will be at risk. I can’t see students all wearing masks either unless they are compulsory. If a teacher or student gets sick with symptoms will the whole class or school have to isolate? I’d we do get a second wave what happens to the kids that can’t access WiFi where broadband is bad or they don’t have computers?

What about boarding schools or day schools with boarders? Kids coming from different counties and countries? Assuming the overseas students will have to quarantine before the other students arrive. I don’t think there are any easy answers to any of the questions. One thing I do know having homeschooled my teens since March is that it is a really really tough job.

Im not a teacher and I feel it is really mean the way some journalists go all out to crucify them for standing up for their rights. I know for a fact because I worked there that if you asked a journalist to do something he was not comfortable with, the NUJ would be all over it. Why should one professional body dictate to another that they should go in to packed classrooms and put their health at risk. I have home schooled since march and it was bloody hard as my kids are not at the top of the class and so need that bit extra for them to get it, it often turned into a row which of course helps nobody and in the last weeks of june i just gave up as couldnt do it anymore. The teachers were fantastic. I cant see my chlldren going back full time, our school is tiny and so many children packed into rooms, there is not enough room to swing a cat and some of the kids in my children's class have medical issues where if they got a normal cold they would be out for days, i can think of about 4. Instead of berating unions for standing up for their members, can we just assume the children wont get school for the whole week but perhaps a couple of days and just hope things improve. Im already of that mind and ready for another term of home schooling a couple of mornings. If i feel the situation is not safe and things are looking a bit hairy with the virus I will take them out.

harr

Actually a bit of normality this week , getting reports cards, book lists and what class teacher, kids actually excited to be getting the back to school stuff organised.
Then you get these recommendations today which I know in my sons school will be unworkable. Very small classroom, With the one meter being implanted his class will hold about 10 students so I don’t see how it’s workable and telling kids to stay two meters apart from friends is again going to be next to impossible... it’s definitely looking like break time will have to spent at desks.
I honestly don’t know what solution is but it’s really starting to affect my kids well being .. all they were holding onto was getting back to some normality in September.

khalessi

boggerman1 wrote: »

More nonsense or is it box ticking for the schools to reopen in September.the school’s should be reopening as normal in august but my guess is that the teacher unions will sabre rattle and the whole thing will be solved by money being threw at them.

Love this attitude. That unionsteachers looking to ensure safety of their workforce will be solved by money, despite fact youre wrong.

Thank you for your enlightening post, it was thoroughly enjoying.

It is interesting you dont think the same of nurses or any other job that asks for health and safety.

boggerman1

More nonsense or is it box ticking for the schools to reopen in September.the school’s should be reopening as normal in august but my guess is that the teacher unions will sabre rattle and the whole thing will be solved by money being threw at them.

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So HSE have published a hefty COVID-19
Interim recommendations for the reopening of schools and educational facilities document.

Guideline of at least 1 metre social distancing for schools (from 3rd class upwards). Masks not mandatory.

Looks good on paper but practically speaking, it is difficult to implement in any meaningful way.

Are teachers going to have to enforce this? How will they do that?

This will be the only place where kids will be socially distancing let's be honest.

Lots of detail in the document, it covers a lot.

THis is also one of the few areas where children are in a work environment apart from hospitals and creches which also have their requirements. It is also to protect teachers but be interesting to see how it will work.

iamwhoiam

Van.Bosch wrote: »

My read of that is up to and including second class there is no restrictions and all students can go back full time from September. Am I reading it right?

That was my understanding too . Up to third class no social distancing but children not to mix with other classes .

Mind you it seems daft when kids and teenagers are mixing already with no distancing on greens and playgrounds etc

More info here on the alternative “ pods” in senior classes

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/physical-distancing-for-older-pupils-pods-and-no-sharing-back-to-school-guidelines-revealed-39332590.html

BonsaiKitten

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So HSE have published a hefty COVID-19
Interim recommendations for the reopening of schools and educational facilities document.

Guideline of at least 1 metre social distancing for schools (from 3rd class upwards). Masks not mandatory.

Looks good on paper but practically speaking, it is difficult to implement in any meaningful way.

Are teachers going to have to enforce this? How will they do that?

This will be the only place where kids will be socially distancing let's be honest.

Lots of detail in the document, it covers a lot.

It's a nonsense. I couldn't fit all of my lot into the classroom at a 1m distance from one another. Never mind keeping social distancing from me. Aside from anything else, the room only have 2 person tables...

I don't mind going back myself but these guidelines are not realistic. They're setting us up to have to break them so that when infection rises again, they've something to point to.

Van.Bosch

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So guideline of 1 metre social distancing for schools (from 3rd class upwards). Masks not mandatory.

Looks good on paper but practically speaking, it is difficult to implement in any meaningful way.

Are teachers going to have to enforce this? How will they do that?

This will be the only place where kids will be socially distancing let's be honest.

My read of that is up to and including second class there is no restrictions and all students can go back full time from September. Am I reading it right?

ldy4mxonucwsq6

So HSE have published a hefty COVID-19
Interim recommendations for the reopening of schools and educational facilities document.

Guideline of at least 1 metre social distancing for schools (from 3rd class upwards). Masks not mandatory.

Looks good on paper but practically speaking, it is difficult to implement in any meaningful way.

Are teachers going to have to enforce this? How will they do that?

This will be the only place where kids will be socially distancing let's be honest.

Lots of detail in the document, it covers a lot.

Strath2020

There is no social distancing going on locally here with teens so September in schools will be no different. The beaches and parks are packed. I think teachers are getting a hard time. They deserve to be provided with facial shields if they want them (at the very minimum) as they will be at risk. I can’t see students all wearing masks either unless they are compulsory. If a teacher or student gets sick with symptoms will the whole class or school have to isolate? I’d we do get a second wave what happens to the kids that can’t access WiFi where broadband is bad or they don’t have computers?

What about boarding schools or day schools with boarders? Kids coming from different counties and countries? Assuming the overseas students will have to quarantine before the other students arrive. I don’t think there are any easy answers to any of the questions. One thing I do know having homeschooled my teens since March is that it is a really really tough job.

Dublingirl80

pwurple wrote: »

And you've unilaterally determined that's the case is it? Mixed studies there to be fair.

Here's a case study of a 9 year old who attended 3 schools with Covid, while showing symptoms of the virus, and passed it on to exactly 0 people.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa424/5819060

There's also an argument to be had for not having a blanket approach where everything is based on Dublin's infection rate.

Sligo hasn't had a case in weeks, same for Kerry. Why subject their schools to some draconian measures when there isn't a single case within 100 miles of them, just because the durty dubs are spreading it around? :pac:

People would have to be banned from entering and leaving sligo if it was to go county by county, plenty of people live in one county and work in another. I think this thread is going nowhere. Nobody knows what the rules will be in September. Hopefully it will be possible for everyone to go back as normal in a safe way for everyone involved. I honestly hope that everyone wants the best for all people involved, staff, kids, parents, parents of parents, when it comes to this virus the whole thing is interconnected anyway. Bottom line is nobody will benefit from the virus spreading in schools. Fingers crossed by the start of August things will have continued to improve ans this will all be possible. We are all optimistic but also worried and I think that's fair enough.

Lyle

Cluster at a nursery school in the UK:

https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/twenty-children-and-adults-nursery-milton-keynes-are-confirmed-have-covid-19-2895565

Acorn nursery at Westcroft has had 20 staff, children and family members test positive for Covid-19 over the past week and a half...

"We’ve seen an outbreak in Milton Keynes in a setting where all sensible precautions were being followed."

They don't have PPE use or distancing in the guidelines for education/childcare in the UK.

They do operate a "bubble" system so while all the contacts of the positive bubble are isolating, the rest of the nursery carries on:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-53191763

The bubbles exposed to the confirmed cases are self-isolating...

"The nursery remains open to bubbles not exposed to confirmed cases."

Dr Victor Aiyedun, Consultant in Communicable Disease Control at PHE, said cases in the school setting could help scientists better understand the transmission of the disease.

"It will also provide insight into how the virus spreads in nursery settings as they prepare to welcome more children over the coming weeks,"he said.

Boggles

pwurple wrote: »

Sligo hasn't had a case in weeks, same for Kerry.

They had cases last week.

pwurple

Treppen wrote: »

But the thing is you don't pass on "being killed in a football training session" to another person.

And you've unilaterally determined that's the case is it? Mixed studies there to be fair.

Here's a case study of a 9 year old who attended 3 schools with Covid, while showing symptoms of the virus, and passed it on to exactly 0 people.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa424/5819060

There's also an argument to be had for not having a blanket approach where everything is based on Dublin's infection rate.

Sligo hasn't had a case in weeks, same for Kerry. Why subject their schools to some draconian measures when there isn't a single case within 100 miles of them, just because the durty dubs are spreading it around? :pac:

Sammy2012

deiseindublin wrote: »

I looked and they're not on DES website. Could you link to them please.

They were sent on to the school in an email from the department. No idea where they are online. But I'm sure they are there. They also mentioned that children are not expected to social distance from each other so that's social distancing in the school setting eliminated.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

Well you seem determined anyway. Best to just wait and see. No masks, no distancing, wouldn't say this all will have a good impact on the teacher shortage issues. As for sick leave for any cough or fever until covid tests are done. You seem to think saying things like social distancing is non runner solves the problem. Masks on buses is to solve the distancing issue . So which will it be, masks/visors or distancing?

Well if schools are to return fully as we've been told then no social distancing is the reality regardless of what you or I think.

As I said before if teachers feel that they want to wear masks, visors, PPE well then they should regardless of what any guidelines say. Same goes for any child who is vulnerable.

People have always been allowed to make their own decisions for themselves and those with underlying conditions are well aware of the risks and how to best prevent infection (this is nothing new to them).

You know social distancing isn't going to be here forever, sure it barely exists even now as far as I can see. People aren't terrified enough any more and some just aren't even trying to distance at this point.

Treppen

pwurple wrote: »

Do you work for The Sun? That is complete hysterics. What I said was absolutely true.

Of the billions of people in the world the risk is absolutely tiny. There is higher risk of your child being killed in a football training session than of Covid.

But the thing is you don't pass on "being killed in a football training session" to another person.

pwurple

bettyoleary wrote: »

That is not true at all. There are children that have died with Covid, developed horrible symptoms and even babies. Why are you saying that? Its extremely dangerous, Whats your agenda?

Do you work for The Sun? That is complete hysterics. What I said was absolutely true.

Of the billions of people in the world the risk is absolutely tiny. There is higher risk of your child being killed in a football training session than of Covid.