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Will you travel? [Mod Note in Post #1 - Travel Discussion Only! Megathread]

Mrcaramelchoc

Are you traveling outside of Ireland in the next few weeks?will you go now because the coronavirus is getting worse or will you cancel?
Im due to go to prague in 2 weeks and i don't know if i should?

Mod: It has been suggested to merge this with the main Corona thread, but I think a dedicated thread about travel has merit. If it becomes too much like the main thread, I'll just merge the two.

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Acosta

It's a tricky one and people need to be very careful, but if everyone follows Dr. Tony's instructions there won't be much of an aviation industry left by the end of all this.

tobefrank321

Acosta wrote: »

It's a tricky one and people need to be very careful, but if everyone follows Dr. Tony's instructions there won't be much of an aviation industry left by the end of all this.

I think people should voluntarily self quarantine for 2 weeks after returning from holidays or limit their interactions, as best they can. Countries like Spain now have a low risk, but its the tourists from other countries you might meet there in pubs and the like where the problem is.

As for much of an aviation industry, that's true, but if we have to shut down generally again, we won't have much of anything left. Something has to be sacrificed for the rest of the economy to survive.

Zonda999

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/darragh-obrien-plays-down-rift-between-health-authorities-and-government-over-air-travel-advice-1008309.html

"plays down rift" = there is a rift, guaranteed.

Not surpising either, compare what we've been hearing from Holohan over the past two days to what Varadkar was saying only last week.

"“I genuinely don't think so...we take his advice very seriously.”

At least he says this, its the Government who should be taking the decision, they are the onhes who have to consider all stakeholders.

I wonder are we going to end up in a strange position of there being countries which Irish people can go and do not need to enter the 14 day quarantine after returning, while at the same time NPHET are telling people to stay put.

josip

atahuapla wrote: »

You’ve obviously convinced yourself you’ll be fine and no risk to others so there isn’t much point talking to you.
For others reading this - no matter how careful you think you’ll be at avoiding people when you’re abroad, you have zero control over it when you’re in a metal tube in the sky.
26 passengers tested positive after getting off a flight from DXB > HKG last Sat.
Enjoy your Sangria.

So do you have any concerns about those who drive to their European destination?
Obviously there aren't as many as those who would fly, but we're also included in the CMO's dictat.

scrips

So, we CAN travel (since flights are operating and other countries are accepting, even welcoming, us), we are ALLOWED to travel, but we SHOULDN'T travel (due to non-essential travel advisory, insurance issues, guilt-tripping by the media, CMO advice). There is no end to the mixed messages that citizens are getting. Realistically the CMO is probably aiming for a good percentage of people to cancel their holiday plans in the hope that the lower numbers travelling will reduce the risk of a second wave, whatever that is.

faceman

The_Brood wrote: »

But Ireland is in the EU, so.....? Unless there has been an IREXIT unannounced I don't understand how Ireland is just doing its own thing.

We are in the EU but we are not part of Shengen. Most inter EU border decisions refer to Shengen countries just like this one

Zonda999

scrips wrote: »

So, we CAN travel (since flights are operating and other countries are accepting, even welcoming, us), we are ALLOWED to travel, but we SHOULDN'T travel (due to non-essential travel ban, insurance issues, guilt-tripping by the media, CMO advice). There is no end to the mixed messages that citizens are getting. Realistically the CMO is probably aiming for a good percentage of people to cancel their holiday plans in the hope that the lower numbers travelling will reduce the risk of a second wave, whatever that is.

I suspect so. Although I struggle to see any mention of the fact that as the economy re-opens internally, surely cases are expected to rise with that?

All of the commentary seems to be around the risk due to foreign travel despite the fact if there are any cases in the country at all when we are re-opening, these will be expected to spread.

Acosta

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I think people should voluntarily self quarantine for 2 weeks after returning from holidays, as best they can. Countries like Spain now have a low risk, but its the tourists from other countries you might meet there in pubs and the like where the problem is.

As for much of an aviation industry, that's true, but if we have to shut down generally again, we won't have much of anything left. Something has to be sacrificed for the rest of the economy to survive.

The current 14 day quarantine won't be an issue for many people intending to head off such as the those who are currently working from home and people who are retired.

Hopefully people will be careful while socializing in these places and keep to themselves as mich as possible and and just enjoy the sun.

All the talk of people heading off on holidays is still probably not as dangerous as heading over and back to the UK, which people have being doing in and out of Dublin and Cork every day since all this began in March.

[Deleted User]

I've no issue with people going on holidays abroad. They just need to be conscious that international flight travel is high risk for spread of COVID-19. Hence why the two week quarantine is important. I had a 3 week trip booked to South American in September. I am writing this off as a loss. Unsure if insurance will cover the flights.

Spanish Eyes

I reckon the majority of those who have booked and paid for their holidays will go. Some will risk assess and decide not to.

If a family has forked out a few thousand and cannot get anything back from Travel Insurance, it's a no brainer for most to take a chance and go.

If the Government REALLY don't want unnecessary travel to take place, then they have to maybe think of a compo scheme for those who cancel per the advice, but are not covered by insurance.

Personally, we usually go in May and October, but this year at end Feb saw the writing on the wall and decided not to book. Will see how things pan out, but in general for us, 2020 is probably a write off.

The_Brood

scrips wrote: »

So, we CAN travel (since flights are operating and other countries are accepting, even welcoming, us), we are ALLOWED to travel, but we SHOULDN'T travel (due to non-essential travel advisory, insurance issues, guilt-tripping by the media, CMO advice). There is no end to the mixed messages that citizens are getting. Realistically the CMO is probably aiming for a good percentage of people to cancel their holiday plans in the hope that the lower numbers travelling will reduce the risk of a second wave, whatever that is.

Exactly. It's like if the economy suffers they want to say "we didn't officially prohibit travel, airlines are free to operate, it's not our fault there was low demand" but if on the other hand there is a second wave they can say "well we strongly advised against travel, we put warnings everywhere, it's not our fault."

If there's any kind of leadership from this new government however they need to make a firm decision, which comes with the risk that if they are wrong there are consequences. That's what taking responsibility means.

NotMOL

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no issue with people going on holidays abroad. They just need to be conscious that international flight travel is high risk for spread of COVID-19. Hence why the two week quarantine is important. I had a 3 week trip booked to South American in September. I am writing this off as a loss. Unsure if insurance will cover the flights.

Do you have any sources which prove that international travel is high risk? If you go to another city with similar covid cases as your current city then how is the risk higher?

dundalkfc10

Going 10 August, Portugal for 2 weeks.

Looking forward to the Sun, everyone wearing a mask because it's mandotary, beaches set out for social distancing unlike Ireland, all restaurants and bars and shops fully compiling with social distancing unlike Tesco and Penneys here which is like a cattle mart once u get in. No groups teens everywhere on buses, parks etc like Ireland

Íl take my chances in such a dangerous place

Spanish Eyes

NotMOL wrote: »

Do you have any sources which prove that international travel is high risk? If you go to another city with similar covid cases as your current city then how is the risk higher?

I think the issue is not travelling as such, but the mingling at close quarters amongst many different nationalities in crowded spaces like airports, apron tranfer buses, queuing to get on board, and on the plane itself, in all directions/connections.

The virus did circumnavigate the globe within a few weeks due to international travel, so it is reasonable to assume it could do so again.

stephenjmcd

Basically cancel so people can get money back.

What I have an issue with is this quote, still the comparisons with New Zealand which aren't comparable at all.

"Public health expert Dr Gabriel Scally told the same programme he did not think airbridges were the solution and that there was in fact no real solution other than to “get rid of the virus in Ireland”.

Ireland should follow the example of countries like New Zealand and introduce strict quarantine measures for people arriving into the country. There were enough hotels near the airports to do this, he said."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/call-for-government-to-cancel-flights-follows-holohan-s-foreign-travel-comments-1.4292494?mode=amp

faceman

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Basically cancel so people can get money back.

What I have an issue with is this quote, still the comparisons with New Zealand which aren't comparable at all.

"Public health expert Dr Gabriel Scally told the same programme he did not think airbridges were the solution and that there was in fact no real solution other than to “get rid of the virus in Ireland”.

Ireland should follow the example of countries like New Zealand and introduce strict quarantine measures for people arriving into the country. There were enough hotels near the airports to do this, he said."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/call-for-government-to-cancel-flights-follows-holohan-s-foreign-travel-comments-1.4292494?mode=amp

If the Irish government cancels flights from Ireland, people will just fly from Belfast. This carries an increased risk of importing the virus in an uncontrolled manner, as there will be no record for them travelling and no requirement to quarantine coming back. Contact tracing will be impeded until its too late.

The government was asked to force airlines to refund passengers a few months ago. Instead they backed an EU bill allowing airlines not to have to refund and be able to offer vouchers instead.

NotMOL

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

I think the issue is not travelling as such, but the mingling at close quarters amongst many different nationalities in crowded spaces like airports, apron tranfer buses, queuing to get on board, and on the plane itself, in all directions/connections.

The virus did circumnavigate the globe within a few weeks due to international travel, so it is reasonable to assume it could do so again.

It circumnavigate the globe because it was imported from regions with high number of cases and we didn't no how to contain the spread...there was literally no mask usage.

But if an airport contains just nationalities from countries with low number of cases then how is the risk increased? The risk of course would be increased if Americans and Brazilians etc are going to be in the airports but right now they are not included on EU travel list.

the.red.baron

faceman wrote: »

If the Irish government cancels flights from Ireland, people will just fly from Belfast. This carries an increased risk of importing the virus in an uncontrolled manner, as there will be no record for them travelling and no requirement to quarantine coming back. Contact tracing will be impeded until its too late.

The government was asked to force airlines to refund passengers a few months ago. Instead they backed an EU bill allowing airlines not to have to refund and be able to offer vouchers instead.

some pain in the hoop though and belfast hardly has the capacity that dublin does and it would put many many people off

sure they could always walk there

ZX7R

Well the EU travel plan has been passed , official announcement to be made later today.
One interesting thing to note.
Ultimately it will remain up to each EU country to make the call for there borders, meaning in some cases countries could reimpose international borders Clarification on this will be included in the official announcement later

dundalkfc10

the.red.baron wrote: »

some pain in the hoop though and belfast hardly has the capacity that dublin does and it would put many many people off

sure they could always walk there

For anyone living in Monaghan, Louth, Meath, Dublin, Cavan, Belfast can be reached in anything from 45 mins to 2 hours. Hardly a pain in the arse.

You can drive to Belfast and park your car there if you wish, no need to walk

atahuapla

dundalkfc10 wrote: »

Going 10 August, Portugal for 2 weeks.

Looking forward to the Sun, everyone wearing a mask because it's mandotary, beaches set out for social distancing unlike Ireland, all restaurants and bars and shops fully compiling with social distancing unlike Tesco and Penneys here which is like a cattle mart once u get in. No groups teens everywhere on buses, parks etc like Ireland

Íl take my chances in such a dangerous place

Nobody cares about you and your chances. People care that you bring it back and infect them which you have no control over when you're sitting in the middle seat of a full Ryanair Boeing 737.

dundalkfc10

atahuapla wrote: »

Nobody cares about you and your chances. People care that you bring it back and infect them which you have no control over when you're sitting in the middle seat of a full Ryanair Boeing 737.

I will, my son will be in the middle, my girlfriend one side me the other.

My Parents and brother have booked the seats in front of us.

You know you can pay not to sit beside a stranger.

Was on a the town bus today in Dundalk and was nobody with masks and bus packed at 8.30am, I know where id rather be on a plane with proper ventilation and everyone wearing masks, after having their temperatures checked before got on

acequion

I'm booked to fly to Spain on 10th July. Talk of flight cancellations making me nervous. How likely is that to happen? For those of us very far down the country Belfast is no good.

munchkin_utd

seems like 14 members of an Iraqi family in Sligo caught it from 3 people coming back after an extended stay out there.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/up-to-14-members-of-the-same-iraqi-family-at-centre-of-covid-cluster-in-sligo-1008362.html

I honestly do not see how this (someone coming from an infection ridden 3rd world country, likely staying in a densly populated urban location) relates to people having holidays in resorts or campsites with social distancing in countries with low infection rates

AND the main infection spread happened in Ireland, so indeed an issue of infections being seeded by visits abroad BUT seriously, it was a weeeeee bit reckless for someone to come from an infection ridden country and then seemingly having welcome home visitations, even straight off the plane at Dublin airport.

The lesson to learn would be to implement a proper quarantine (airport hotels, even police/ security at the front door) for people arriving from infection riddled countries, not to stop people going to places with similar or less infection rates.

Acosta

acequion wrote: »

I'm booked to fly to Spain on 10th July. Talk of flight cancellations making me nervous. How likely is that to happen? For those of us very far down the country Belfast is no good.

Almost no chance of it being cancelled. Let's not forget, the government wouldn't even step into stop flights coming into Dublin from Bergamo, which was the epicentre of the virus in Europe, even after we went into lockdown.

stephenjmcd

Irish times headline quite misleading here

"Ireland left out as EU opens borders to 15 states including Australia, Canada and Japan"

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/ireland-left-out-as-eu-opens-borders-to-15-states-including-australia-canada-and-japan-1.4292678?mode=amp&utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral

wheresmybeaver

We're travelling to Mallorca on Friday for 9 days.

Reasons we're going:
- Flights were booked January and cannot be rescheduled without serious cost. Besides this we have literally no other options between now and Christmas to fly again due to annual leave, school etc. So we'd lose about €1000 if we don't fly Friday.
- We're not staying in a hotel, we're visiting my wife's parents who live in the countryside.
- We're travelling through Cork airport which has relatively lower human traffic at the moment and seems less risky. Palma Airport seems to have their act together too.
- We won't be doing bars and restaurants over there as these seem to be hotspots for infection despite best efforts.
- We plan to self quarantine for at least a week when we get back (ie kids won't be allowed out with the neighbour kids) and I'm able to work from home. Not so much because we think we're more likely to bring the virus back with us but because we don't want our neighbours to be worried.

We're very conscious that we don't want to be selfish about this decision. I honestly don't see how this trip will be any more risky to us or anyone around us compared to travelling and living within Ireland. The inlaws are feeling very isolated over there and haven't seen any of their kids or grandkids since last summer; they would obviously be at lower risk if we didn't visit them at all but they don't want to cocoon for what could be years due to the virus. A few weeks ago as Ireland relaxed restrictions my own parents were reunited with their grandkids but my wife's parents haven't had that pleasure yet, and they're worried they might not see them at all this year.

The virus is already in Ireland and will spread perfectly fine on its own now that people can travel across the country, and I can't imagine "staycationers" will spread the virus any less than the small numbers of people travelling within the EU. We all have to balance the risk of the virus against living our lives over the medium term. So that's why we're travelling.

acequion

Acosta wrote: »

Almost no chance of it being cancelled. Let's not forget, the government wouldn't even step into stop flights coming into Dublin from Bergamo, which was the epicentre of the virus in Europe, even after we went into lockdown.

Thanks for replying Acosta.

However I didn't mean being cancelled by any Govt action. What I would like to know is why there are some flight cancellations at the moment. Would it be because not enough seats are sold on that flight or passengers cancelling? Anyone?

fisgon

faceman wrote: »

Here here!

How was your experience navigating Dublin airport? Much in terms of delays from the extra measures?

How was arrival in Madrid! Easy to navigate the airport and extra steps on arrival? (Trying to anticipate what I’ll face with my own journey)

Dublin airport on Sunday was a ghost town, deserted. In fact, the whole process was much much less painful than normal - I was through security in five minutes, and boarding was even quick. The plane arrived 30 minutes early. Madrid was quiet too. I recommend travelling during a pandemic!

One thing I will say, only about 50% of the staff in Dublin airport were wearing masks. I expected it to be compulsory. That kind of shocked me. In Madrid, everyone, everywhere is wearing one.

I will add that I am on my own, so I can control what I do and who I come into contact with. i would think twice if I were with a family.

acequion

wheresmybeaver wrote: »

We're travelling to Mallorca on Friday for 9 days.

Reasons we're going:
- Flights were booked January and cannot be rescheduled without serious cost. Besides this we have literally no other options between now and Christmas to fly again due to annual leave, school etc. So we'd lose about €1000 if we don't fly Friday.
- We're not staying in a hotel, we're visiting my wife's parents who live in the countryside.
- We're travelling through Cork airport which has relatively lower human traffic at the moment and seems less risky. Palma Airport seems to have their act together too.
- We won't be doing bars and restaurants over there as these seem to be hotspots for infection despite best efforts.
- We plan to self quarantine for at least a week when we get back (ie kids won't be allowed out with the neighbour kids) and I'm able to work from home. Not so much because we think we're more likely to bring the virus back with us but because we don't want our neighbours to be worried.

We're very conscious that we don't want to be selfish about this decision. I honestly don't see how this trip will be any more risky to us or anyone around us compared to travelling and living within Ireland. The inlaws are feeling very isolated over there and haven't seen any of their kids or grandkids since last summer; they would obviously be at lower risk if we didn't visit them at all but they don't want to cocoon for what could be years due to the virus. A few weeks ago as Ireland relaxed restrictions my own parents were reunited with their grandkids but my wife's parents haven't had that pleasure yet, and they're worried they might not see them at all this year.

The virus is already in Ireland and will spread perfectly fine on its own now that people can travel across the country, and I can't imagine "staycationers" will spread the virus any less than the small numbers of people travelling within the EU. We all have to balance the risk of the virus against living our lives over the medium term. So that's why we're travelling.

I fully agree with everything you write but why do you feel the need to justify your decision so much, especially on an internet forum?

Will all the youngsters congregating in gangs be justifying it. Like hell they will!
Will all the house party goers who will drink a bit too much and forget to keep their distance and not touch? Like hell they will!
What about those who travelled all throughout the pandemic. Same answer.
What about the many who never really obeyed the restrictions? Same answer.

And lest anyone think I'm judging them, I assure you I'm not.The point I'm making is that people will live their lives and there is many a person heading abroad right now who will be far more careful than the one on staycation. Or the one not on staycation just at home.

But the latest in this whole sorry saga is to target and guilt trip people travelling!