FrancieBrady wrote: » Hume's solo run on foot of the Anglo Irish Agreement and Adams/SF's receptiveness to it was pivotal. For somebody to be so lazy as to not understand what the Unionist veto was and what the AIA did to it, is unforgiveable really. Hume deserves every plaudit he gets for what he did.
JohnnyFlash wrote: » Don't like to see John Humes name dragged through the mud here, lads. The finest Republican since Collins.
Poor_old_gill wrote: » Only came onto this thread for the pathetic whataboutery, so thank you.
Bonniedog wrote: » Am bored. So went to trouble not only of explaining what consent/veto means in context of the three agreements, but posting the relevant sections. You respond with meaningless quote from a man who unlike myself was often on the sauce! Hume was part of conning the shinners - or rather supplying Adams with enough to con them into the surrender. He was hardly going to say that in public! "By the way lads we rogered you sideways without the courtesy of a reach around." :-) You are even less coherent that a shinner TD, and that's saying something. Paper hat in the post :-)
Bonniedog wrote: » So the Provos did support Sunningdale but decided for the crack to keep killing people and having Volunteers killed for nothing for another 25 years? Genius. BTW,when the army surrendered Volunteers were told that the Brits would be gone "within five years." Don't know if you noticed this, but they are still here 22 years after the GFA. Genius. So now, the shinners run the 6 for the Brits, the IRA has surrendered and handed over all its weapons, and the party is dominated by people who wouldn't have had had anything to do with it 25 years ago. And no nearer a united Ireland than 1922. Pure genius. I wonder do they have a tip for the Derby?
Bonniedog wrote: » You are not very bright are you, young Francis? The "unionist veto" is the right to consent to change constitutional status of NI. It's still there. Only difference between 1973 is that erstwhile republicans are prepared to accept it and administer part of Ireland for the Brits.
The fundamental change that has taken place as a result of the Anglo-Irish Agreement is a change that is deeply and fully understood by every Unionist. What it means is that their exclusive hold on power has gone and is not coming back. The power of veto on British policy which they have always had, and which goes to the heart of our problem here, has gone and is not coming back.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Bonniedog doesn't even know what the 'Unionist Veto' refers to. I posted the Hume piece to try and educate him.
Edgware wrote: » Could you go through that again. I lost you at the first Quote
FrancieBrady wrote: » Change the goalposts when caught out. You were spouting this rubbish a while ago: Do you accept that this was rubbish of the highest order or not?
Bonniedog wrote: » I was referring to historical illiterates like yourself who clearly can't understand simple statements. GFA commits the two governments to " ...recognise the legitimacy of whatever choice is freely exercised by the people of Northern Ireland with regard to its status, whether they prefer to continue to support the union with Great Britain or a sovereign United Ireland." Sunningdale: "The Irish government fully accepted and solemnly declared that there could be no change in the status of Northern Ireland until a majority of people in Northern Ireland desired a change in that status." Hillsborough 1985 - "The two governments affirm that any change in the status of Northern Ireland would only come about with the consent of a majority of the people in Northern Ireland." Perhaps our constitutional experts here will explain the difference?
The "unionist veto" in the GFA is exactly the same as it was in Sunningdale:
Bonniedog wrote: » Consent clause in Sunningdale, Hillsborough and GFA are exactly the same: A united Ireland if a majority in 6 counties agree. You band wagon hoppers are an embarrassment.
maccored wrote: » an inaccurate quip invented by the SDLP. stop believing everything youre told without question. smacks of laziness and gullibility
Bonniedog wrote: » So SF supported Sunningdale did it?Sunningdale which contained everything that was in GFA by the way. Or do you mean that republicans didnt want a 32 county republic and were only waiting for the chance to run the north for the Brits?
Bonniedog wrote: » The "unionist veto" in the GFA is exactly the same as it was in Sunningdale: That a majority in 6 counties have to vote for unity. This is getting tiresome as you clearly know nothing about any of this other than quick wiki visits that go over your head. As for your last comment..... where to start. Northern Ireland is not a homeland, nor have republicans ever aspired to running it. Sounds like you are the one that has more in common with Mallon and the SDLP.
The Unionist people have a long and strong tradition in Ireland. They have a rich Protestant heritage and a great pride in their tradition. They have pride in their service to the Crown, pride in their contribution to the United States, in their spirit of industry and achievement, in their work ethic and in their faith. Their special metttle is believed by many of them to be expressed in victories in battles long ago, battles regularly commemorated. But that pride is expressed in an archaic supremacism and in a desperate fear that they could not survive in accommodation with other traditions. They must live apart. Living apart may have been acceptable as long as their hold on power was underpinned by successive British goverments: but that is no longer the case. The fundamental change that has taken place as a result of the Anglo-Irish Agreement is a change that is deeply and fully understood by every Unionist. What it means is that their exclusive hold on power has gone and is not coming back. The power of veto on British policy which they have always had, and which goes to the heart of our problem here, has gone and is not coming back. The loss is uncomfortable for their leaders, for while they held that privileged position they never had to be politicians or exercise the art of politics, which is the art of representing one’s own view while treating others with fairness
Bonniedog wrote: » So SF supported Sunningdale did it?
Sunningdale which contained everything that was in GFA by the way.
Or do you mean that republicans didnt want a 32 county republic and were only waiting for the chance to run the north for the Brits?
Bonniedog wrote: » Parity of esteem my ar$e. It was about bringing about a 32 county Republic. So it failed. Shinners have nothing that could not have been gotten had IRA surrendered in 1973 after Sunningdale instead of wasting another 21 years.
Bonniedog wrote: » If the Provos couldnt beat the Brits, a gang of retro Provos are not going to! Armed struggle failed. You don't have to be a "dissident" to realise that the shinners have sold out on everything the republican movement stood for, and for which thousands died for no reason.
FrancieBrady wrote: » Are you voicing support for the dissidents there?
Bonniedog wrote: » Being part of any British administration in Ireland is totally against any notion of republicanism. Pity they didn't see the light before thousands including the hunger strikers and hundreds of Volunteers died for nothing.
Cal4567 wrote: » Actually the role and power of the devolved UK assemblies are limited, so SF's hands are tied to some extent, a point that seems to be comfortably forgotten both sometimes here and more importantly by ROI politicians. .
smurgen wrote: » Useful idiots we might be now but efforts need to be made to reform the party into the progressive party it can be.i believe those that were looking to SF as an opportunity for change could greatly refine the party. Time will tell as from what I can see there's alot of people angry at this nomination now. Hopefully that scumbag is booted out and those that put him there reprimanded.
Speaking then, Sinn Féin leader Mary Lou McDonald launched disciplinary proceedings, saying Mr Holohan’s comments were “beyond offensive” and “vile”. “I actually find them upsetting,” she said.
