charlie14 wrote: » What other ways are there of dealing with it ?
CalamariFritti wrote: » Well I am not wondering should we have just let it go and whoever dies dies. I am merely wondering was this massive lockdown not a total overreaction and all that fear that still goes on everywhere?
charlie14 wrote: » There are a few places probably would call you that I imagine. New York city for one who with a population of 8 million attribute 22,441 deaths and 56,624 hospitalised to Covid-19. Italy`s Lombardy region for another, where similar to New York, not only were their hospitals overrun but their morgues could not accommodate the numbers.
CalamariFritti wrote: » Stupid question just to confirm that I don't have my number screwed up please. So Sweden had no lockdown and has had 5,000 COVID19 deaths over a population of 10m. 50 in 100,000, Thats 0.05% right? Of which 90% were over 80 with serious health issues. Does that make me a cynical bastard if I'm wondering should we really have locked own the entire globe over that? Looking at the numbers like that it seems like a totally mad overreaction, no? I know its terrible and every one is one too many but way more people die due to hunger, war, cancer whatnot. Those numbers certainly don't suggest this is this new super killer virus we all have to hide behind the couch from.
cnocbui wrote: » Wrong. Wearing masks is the best preventative measure - much more effective than washing hands. The tune has changed, you seem to have missed it. I don't go on holiday to relax.
charlie14 wrote: » I don`t think you get the concept that people go on holidays to relax. Not to risk their health. Even if they did wish to go to Sweden and wear a mask it still would not workWearing masks primarily prevent you from infecting others by spreading the virus. You could also end up playing double jeopardy with your health and wellbeing in Sweden by being attacked for wearing one.
cnocbui wrote: » Let them wear masks.
cnocbui wrote: » Worldwide the tourism sector is worth at least 10% of global GDP. The virus free advocates would see that wiped out in total. The only reasonable way forward is for the vulnerable to self isolate, IMO, and to get the world's economies going again.
charlie14 wrote: » It is difficult to know just how well they held up with not using lockdown. A banking survey posted here some time ago found when comparing Sweden and Denmark that consumer spending in Sweden was just 4% greater than Denmark which was in lockdown. The real problem for that sector of businesses going forward will be in tourism. In 2017 30 Million tourists visited Sweden, with tourism contributed 15 Bn USD to the Swedish economy. Close to 3% of GDP. As Sweden is now, those businesses could be waiting a long time before they, (or the Swedish exchequer), see any revenue from tourism
tobefrank321 wrote: » I saw a report somewhere that Sweden's hospitality industry, particularly hotels, held up reasonably well during the covid peak, possibly the only country in the world where hotel bookings didn't collapse to virtually zero. I would say a lot of Swedish businesses were saved, small businesses like cafes and small hotels. We can't say the same in other countries where large numbers of businesses have gone to the wall because of covid 19.
is_that_so wrote: » CMO and Philip Nolan took a pop at Sweden, suppress the virus first!
sydthebeat wrote: » Pretty much exactly what I've done. Problem is when we find cases of them adding to historical numbers from 58 days ago, it leads to asking WHY they are so inept at the administration of their system
Bit cynical wrote: » The answer to this is not to rely on single day's figures but look at longer term trends. The source you use does give a smoother curve but the problem is that you have to ignore the most recent period of between 10 to 14 days as these days are likely to be updated more often.
sydthebeat wrote: » im not sure why your applying some comparison to ireland. The whole reason i started watching these figures was because posters were pointing to the daily death report sand saying "hey look swedens approach is really working, deaths are so low"... when in reality their daily reported figures..... on saturdays and sundays were so significantly artificially reduced.
tobefrank321 wrote: » We do know Sweden are counting care home and nursing home deaths and always have been.
bb1234567 wrote: » Mexico , Iran ,Peru, Ecuador, Indonesia even worse, the unaccounted deaths in those countries may add up to over 100,000. Sweden as countries go is reporting deaths extremely accurately
tobefrank321 wrote: » It seems to be not confined to Sweden. UK's numbers are completely unreliable. Something like 43k confirmed deaths, but excess deaths are up on 65k. Some of these 65k are probably not covid 19 related, but most would be. New York added 1500 nursing home deaths in one day as they forgot to include them, something similar happened in France. There is no way the Brazil figures are reliable or China's. Even in Ireland we backdated many deaths. There seems to be general issues confirming deaths. Probably the most important figure is total deaths.
is_that_so wrote: » The delay here is because the law says up to 3 months is allowed. CMO has suggested that should come down to a month, but it requires legislative change. We don't really know what other countries have been counting and reporting but we know that ours are COVID or probably COVID from everywhere.
tobefrank321 wrote: » The same might also apply in Sweden. I don't really get why if we are a couple months late reporting a death or deaths due to legal requirements, its been described as being thorough etc, but when Sweden do similar, its looked at differently. Fact is reporting of covid 19 deaths take time and its better to take time to report them correctly than make guesses. When Tony Holohan reports 1 death notified today, that death could have happened a month or so ago. Its only now being notified though. I never questioned our covid deaths accuracy. There are delays in every country was the point I was making.
is_that_so wrote: » Our backdating is down to the reporting of deaths, which legally can take up to 3 months. It is generally accepted that our COVID deaths, both definite and probable are fairly accurate.
Bit cynical wrote: » Yes, it can take about two weeks for some deaths to be reported. A very small number take longer and most take about a week. But these figures are based on the date of death not date of reporting like Ireland and other countries. If you want something comparable to what Ireland or other countries provide, then look at deaths reported on a given day. They don't change.
sydthebeat wrote: » surehttps://experience.arcgis.com/experience/09f821667ce64bf7be6f9f87457ed9aa check 'Avlidna per dag' for deaths per day. also see my posts on this issue as part of this thread: my first post on this from 01/05/2020https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113327439&postcount=1524 04/05/2020https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113343592&postcount=1608 07/05/2020https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113371448&postcount=1872 13/05/2020https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113428122&postcount=2240 20/05/2020https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113494988&postcount=2482 and as of today the figures are 28th April 82 29th April 84
