tobefrank321 wrote: » What experts are these now? All experts I've seen including on NPHET have said travel bans or restrictions are the way to go regardless of when they happen. Unfortunately NPHET were late to the party in this regard, they should have imposed them back in March. I agree with Holohan that 2020 needs to be the year of staycation. Otherwise in a few months we will be back at square one and reimposing lockdowns.
The_Brood wrote: » So the EU is officially reopening, but Ireland is not. How does that make sense? Is Ireland not part of the EU any more? First time ever open defiance?
faceman wrote: » You are right to some degree. Allowing travellers to Ireland from the US, UK, Brazil, Iraq, Russia and Sweden is bonkers. Banning travel to all countries rather than tackling the issue head on is even more bonkers.Travel bans only work in the initial stages of an outbreak and experts agree are more harmful than good after that. You also have to note that the landscape has changed since February/March. Mask wearing, stricter hygiene etc. No country will ever be virus free until there is a vaccine. It took 28 years to eradicate small pox from the planet. Even if we start the clock ticking from when we have a vaccine ready to mass produce, it still took 5 years to eradicate smallpox. Should we close our borders for 5 years? I'm sure you agree that makes no sense. Should we close our borders to USA, UK, Brazil, Iraq, Russia and Sweden? Logic might seem to say yes. But what about cargo/freight/workers/economic travellers? Do we make exceptions for those? Are we deeming them less risky? Or course not however if we are saying yes to those types of travellers, we are acknowledging that there is a line that needs to be drawn between virus vs economy. But I would completely support anything initiative that prevents tourism from those countries. Please bear in mind though, Ireland never declared a national health emergency so our borders never closed. The quarantine thing of 2 weeks is useless.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » I'm going to my folks in Spain on Saturday, indefinitely. Well if the flight still goes ahead I'm not taking it for granted yet who knows what may happen. I have masks for the airport and plane and I'll only be coming in contact with my parents really. And if I kill them by bringing the disease I get their house, so win win. It's quiet this year where they are and you eat outside everywhere anyway. Supermarkets etc are more spacious and not as packed as Dublin. The small bit of work I can do at the moment can still be done online but hoping to spend the rest of the summer on the med.
boege wrote: » The virus will spread with international travel. How do people think it spread in the first place - airports will contain people coming from areas with high and low rates of infection and, unfortunately, the highest rate of infection will be the lowest common denominator. This is how it originally spread and the evidence is already emerging. Today they are reporting at least six cases out of 23 associated with international travel and they have expressed concern. I had believed that we would see a summer mostly free of the virus but now I fear we will see infections jump before the end of August. I hope I am wrong but I ask myself, why will it be different if we open up foreign travel (two-way) again?
Deleted User wrote: » Getting to Spain alone- going through a Spanish airport- increases your chances of getting Covid - then going to bars and restaurants where an international crowd are frequenting ? Sorry now but your argument is also grossly flawed- staying on the island of Ireland in 2020 and limited influx of foreign visitors and limited interactions with those foreign visitors is many times safer than getting a 3 hour flight to Spain
faceman wrote: » Let me give you 2 scenarios, tell me which one sounds safest to you. Country A have reopened bars and restaurants with reduced social distancing measures in place in bars than other public places and businesses without any scientific justification for such as reduction. Face masks aren't mandatory. Country B has a greater social distance requirement and face mask are mandatory except when eating or drinking. This is line with WHO and ECDC guidelines. Compliance is strictly enforced. Which of those 2 options sounds more palatable and safe? Country B obviously. Those 2 countries exist. Country A is Ireland Country B is Spain
Tenzor07 wrote: » Ok, low levels of infection in Ireland true, so if you curtail travel into the country how long do you propose this restriction remain? Until there's a cure, 2022 or 2025 perhaps? Until the HSE can provide more ICU beds for Covid patients, more testing? What was the last 3 months of lockdown about then where the irish people did what Tony told them all to do and reduced deaths and new infections to single figures? Maybe for another 6 months, open the borders then in December for Christmas during Winter flu season?
fisgon wrote: » I flew to Spain yesterday. I will be here for 4, or maybe 6 weeks. Spain has recently dropped its quarantine for people coming in from the EU, so I decided to come here. To listen to Tony Holohan (and in general I agree with him), you would think that if someone goes abroad and comes back to Ireland, they are inevitably going to bring the virus with them. This is nonsense. There is as much chance of someone travelling from Dublin to Galway bringing the virus with them as there is of me taking it from Madrid to Dublin when I return in August - the infection rates in Dublin and Madrid are about the same now. In fact, there is less chance as pretty much everyone in Madrid is wearing a mask at all times, even in the streets - far more than in Dublin. It is about managing risk. If you are going to let people travel around Ireland where they want, and go to pubs and gyms and restaurants, that is much more risky than visiting a foreign country that has a low level of virus. That said, I am going to avoid mixing with people for two weeks when i return, just for the peace of mind of those around me.
Deleted User wrote: » We have a low level of Covid infection right now-if inbound travel to this country is limited we’ll maintain that level relative to other countries. Going abroad exposes you to people from countries who have higher levels of Covid risk - I.e English visiting Spain for example And what are most going to do in Spain? Go to bars, restaurants etc
Deleted User wrote: » You can do what you wish but your logic is flawed-,I’m attacking your post and not you and what you’re doing btw We have a low level of Covid infection right now-if inbound travel to this country is limited we’ll maintain that level relative to other countries. Going abroad exposes you to people from countries who have higher levels of Covid risk - I.e English visiting Spain for example And what are most going to do in Spain? Go to bars, restaurants etc It’s your choice what you do- but your logic for doing it is flawed
faceman wrote: » Yes he can
fisgon wrote: » I flew to Spain yesterday. I will be here for 4, or maybe 6 weeks. Spain has recently dropped its quarantine for people coming in from the EU, so I decided to come here.
ThatsNotMyCat wrote: » Does a 14 day quarantine mean you have to stay in the country for a minimum of 2 weeks? Could my husband drive to Ireland with me and return to UK (by flight) three or four days later (myself and baby staying on)
Tenzor07 wrote: » With regards to the form you have to fill in at the ports, I wonder how the data from that is handled. Is it available only to contact tracers in the HSE? Or is it shared with the Gardai also? Can the data be shared with employers? Is the data attached to your passport? If you travel to and from the state within a 14 day period a couple of times do you have to fill out the form twice?
owlbethere wrote: » Testing at airports isn't going to be the solution either. Testing with quick results, it might give people a false sense of security with the virus. A negative result will have people going into communities and mixing with people but what if they picked up the virus along their travels but there wasn't enough virus to be detected at the time of the test?
faceman wrote: » Don’t take it personal, I wasn’t having a go at you. Quarantine and lockdown aren’t mutually exclusive. I posted this in another thread about travel, it’s relevant here. The advice of the NPHET is not aligned with ECDC or with WHO. In fact research based evidence by WHO shows:“...evidence shows that restricting the movement of people and goods during public health emergencies is ineffective in most situations and may divert resources from other interventions. Furthermore, restrictions may interrupt needed aid and technical support, may disrupt businesses, and may have negative social and economic effects on the affected countries. However, in certain circumstances, measures that restrict the movement of people may prove temporarily useful, such as in settings with few international connections and limited response capacities. Travel measures that significantly interfere with international traffic may only be justified at the beginning of an outbreak, as they may allow countries to gain time, even if only a few days, to rapidly implement effective preparedness measures. Such restrictions must be based on a careful risk assessment, be proportionate to the public health risk, be short in duration, and be reconsidered regularly as the situation evolves. Travel bans to affected areas or denial of entry to passengers coming from affected areas are usually not effective in preventing the importation of cases but may have a significant economic and social impact.”
owlbethere wrote: » How did you manage to pick my post about testing and quarantine apart and apply it to the lockdown and the restrictions and claim I don't want the country to open up? Seriously. How did you manage to get all that from my few lines? The country and the economy is opening up in case you're a bit behind in the phases. Reopening the economy is different from any quarantine measures. Quarantine for arrivals would be no harm. Tony Holohan himself expressed concern yesterday about new cases connected to travel.
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