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How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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khalessi

bettyoleary wrote: »

Let me tell you now. This virus is uknown. Yes, mostly old people die with it, but young people spread it. Babies and young children have got it and died. We know in the UK but who knows in South America.

So dont be so selfish bcos you want your kids to go back to school In my opinion kids are best educated . at home. They have less distractions , so can concentrate more. They are less likely to join in herd mentality and stab each other. They are less likely to be bullied

Betty half the time you quote yourself. Dont call me selfish. HOw dare you! Read my posts all of them before you do that. You will see that my 3 nieces got it along with their parents and one of those kids is high risk due to having 3/4 of one llung,so bugger off. And to add I also have CF in my family so masks wearing is important for us.

Half the time here no one knows what you are on about because you seem to be having conversations with yourself, constantly quoting yourself, use the edit button instead if you want to add something.

bettyoleary

khalessi wrote: »

Betty half the time you quote yourselg. Dont call me selfish. HOw dare you! Read my posts all of them before you do that. You will see that my 3 nieces got it along with their parents and one of those kids is high risk due to having 3/4 of one llung,so bugger off. And to add I also have CF in my family so masks wearing is important for us.

Half the time here no one knows what you are on about because you seem to be having conversations with yourself, constantly quoting yourself, use the edit button instead if you want to add something.

But do you agree with me or not

iamwhoiam

Sometimes the toddler who is screeching for attention is best ignored .

ldy4mxonucwsq6

bettyoleary wrote: »

Let me tell you now. This virus is uknown. Yes, mostly old people die with it, but young people spread it. Babies and young children have got it and died. We know in the UK but who knows in South America.

So dont be so selfish bcos you want your kids to go back to school In my opinion kids are best educated . at home. They have less distractions , so can concentrate more. They are less likely to join in herd mentality and stab each other. They are less likely to be bullied

What's your obsession with kids stabbing each other?

Your posts are increasingly filled with hysteria about famine, landlords, immigrant workers and revisionist historians.

None of it relates to the topic of this thread. Do you even read the thread and what/who you are replying to?

Also "They are less likely to join in herd mentality and stab each other. They are less likely to be bullied".

I don't know where you are living but those type of things are hardly the norm for schoolkids, are we supposed to keep them living under a rock? How can you teach them to be independent confident thinkers (to avoid all of the above) if like you propose we just keep them at home and away from others to avoid any difficult situations?

We and children learn through experience, if you don't give them the opportunity to learn on a social level then they'll be worse off and more inclined to choose the wrong path.

Dublingirl80

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

I'd imagine a class full of 30 kids who might not even be able to tie their own laces might have trouble with them.

They are not very comfortable to wear so a young child would be pulling at their mask all day and that defeats the purpose.

Secondary age kids should be able to manage just fine, I think the HSE has rightly set the age at 13 years old.

Practically though they would need to be changed at least once during the school day.
Masks would need to be taken off for food/drinks etc not to mention the huge increase in waste for schools to dispose of several hundred face masks every day (unless kids are made to bring them home with them).

They may be awkward and uncomfortable (for us all) but they are not a strangulation risk. My point is this, if you are hoping for no social distancing, this could be an option. Face shields also. Other countries are doing this. Hse advice as usual seems to differ from the rest of the world. Probably as it took 3 months to come round to even advising masks. If it's in the interest of controlling spread, limiting risk of staff, children especially vulnerable then sorry but it actually should be everyone. The alternative is social distancing of one or 2 metres in current classrooms. I understand the limitations for special needs children so they would be exempt but realistically for masks to work everyone should be wearing them. The under 13s thing makes no sense unless the children don't spread the virus. This hasn't been proven. This whole thing is going around in circles. No compromise and to be honest I dont think children would really mind popping those visors on while in school. We used to do it in science labs etc. I think there is issues in this with people missing the point that this is about risk to everyone in the school. Not just he children who may indeed be fine if they caught this. Masks are most effective when both wear them. The teacher ans staff alone wearing them will make no difference to general spread if they're alone in it I presume. To be perfectly honest even the thought that people think they can tell staff not to wear masks is ridiculous. They can wear whatever they like for their own safety. Have seen one or two mentions even implying they will look scary so they shouldn't. I think most people would accept looking different in the interest if health and safety.

Sammy2012

The guidelines for social distancing in relation to the July provision are out. 2m outside the classroom for adults and 1m where possible inside the classroom. Does this pave the way for a full return to school in Sept?

Dublingirl80

Sammy2012 wrote: »

The guidelines for social distancing in relation to the July provision are out. 2m outside the classroom for adults and 1m where possible inside the classroom. Does this pave the way for a full return to school in Sept?

I havent seen this but if the same applies for September then 1m which is probably the best compromise would mean some classes would be half a week. I don't know if class size would determine this or room size. Some would be small enough classes in big rooms and it would be full time. Some would be impossible. It's a pity they coudlnt also make more use of outdoor space for some months and maybe cover over the areas with shelter. There is almost 20 times less risk outdoors which is a huge difference. Awnings and half out half in style rooms could be constructed and would actually be useful anywya for yard times when rain happens etc. Someone with access to funds and innovative ideas needs to be put in charge of these issues. I dont feel its always a funding issue but an issue with where the funding actually is going.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

I havent seen this but if the same applies for September then 1m which is probably the best compromise would mean some classes would be half a week. I don't know if class size would determine this or room size. Some would be small enough classes in big rooms and it would be full time. Some would be impossible. It's a pity they coudlnt also make more use of outdoor space for some months and maybe cover over the areas with shelter. There is almost 20 times less risk outdoors which is a huge difference. Awnings and half out half in style rooms could be constructed and would actually be useful anywya for yard times when rain happens etc. Someone with access to funds and innovative ideas needs to be put in charge of these issues. I dont feel its always a funding issue but an issue with where the funding actually is going.

The 1m 'where possible' would be workable to some extent for July provision because it involves fewer children than a normal school day, albeit some will have more complex needs.

They've already said they want kids back fully by end of August so social distancing is simply a non runner.

Masks on public transport now mandatory too so social distancing about to be eliminated there as well to allow more capacity.

Dublingirl80

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

The 1m 'where possible' would be workable to some extent for July provision because it involves fewer children than a normal school day, albeit some will have more complex needs.

They've already said they want kids back fully by end of August so social distancing is simply a non runner.

Masks on public transport now mandatory too so social distancing about to be eliminated there as well to allow more capacity.

Well you seem determined anyway. Best to just wait and see. No masks, no distancing, wouldn't say this all will have a good impact on the teacher shortage issues. As for sick leave for any cough or fever until covid tests are done. You seem to think saying things like social distancing is non runner solves the problem. Masks on buses is to solve the distancing issue . So which will it be, masks/visors or distancing?

deiseindublin

Sammy2012 wrote: »

The guidelines for social distancing in relation to the July provision are out. 2m outside the classroom for adults and 1m where possible inside the classroom. Does this pave the way for a full return to school in Sept?

I looked and they're not on DES website. Could you link to them please.

pwurple

bettyoleary wrote: »

That is not true at all. There are children that have died with Covid, developed horrible symptoms and even babies. Why are you saying that? Its extremely dangerous, Whats your agenda?

Do you work for The Sun? That is complete hysterics. What I said was absolutely true.

Of the billions of people in the world the risk is absolutely tiny. There is higher risk of your child being killed in a football training session than of Covid.

Treppen

pwurple wrote: »

Do you work for The Sun? That is complete hysterics. What I said was absolutely true.

Of the billions of people in the world the risk is absolutely tiny. There is higher risk of your child being killed in a football training session than of Covid.

But the thing is you don't pass on "being killed in a football training session" to another person.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

Well you seem determined anyway. Best to just wait and see. No masks, no distancing, wouldn't say this all will have a good impact on the teacher shortage issues. As for sick leave for any cough or fever until covid tests are done. You seem to think saying things like social distancing is non runner solves the problem. Masks on buses is to solve the distancing issue . So which will it be, masks/visors or distancing?

Well if schools are to return fully as we've been told then no social distancing is the reality regardless of what you or I think.

As I said before if teachers feel that they want to wear masks, visors, PPE well then they should regardless of what any guidelines say. Same goes for any child who is vulnerable.

People have always been allowed to make their own decisions for themselves and those with underlying conditions are well aware of the risks and how to best prevent infection (this is nothing new to them).

You know social distancing isn't going to be here forever, sure it barely exists even now as far as I can see. People aren't terrified enough any more and some just aren't even trying to distance at this point.

Sammy2012

deiseindublin wrote: »

I looked and they're not on DES website. Could you link to them please.

They were sent on to the school in an email from the department. No idea where they are online. But I'm sure they are there. They also mentioned that children are not expected to social distance from each other so that's social distancing in the school setting eliminated.

pwurple

Treppen wrote: »

But the thing is you don't pass on "being killed in a football training session" to another person.

And you've unilaterally determined that's the case is it? Mixed studies there to be fair.

Here's a case study of a 9 year old who attended 3 schools with Covid, while showing symptoms of the virus, and passed it on to exactly 0 people.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa424/5819060

There's also an argument to be had for not having a blanket approach where everything is based on Dublin's infection rate.

Sligo hasn't had a case in weeks, same for Kerry. Why subject their schools to some draconian measures when there isn't a single case within 100 miles of them, just because the durty dubs are spreading it around? :pac:

Boggles

pwurple wrote: »

Sligo hasn't had a case in weeks, same for Kerry.

They had cases last week.

Lyle

Cluster at a nursery school in the UK:

https://www.miltonkeynes.co.uk/news/twenty-children-and-adults-nursery-milton-keynes-are-confirmed-have-covid-19-2895565

Acorn nursery at Westcroft has had 20 staff, children and family members test positive for Covid-19 over the past week and a half...

"We’ve seen an outbreak in Milton Keynes in a setting where all sensible precautions were being followed."

They don't have PPE use or distancing in the guidelines for education/childcare in the UK.

They do operate a "bubble" system so while all the contacts of the positive bubble are isolating, the rest of the nursery carries on:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-beds-bucks-herts-53191763

The bubbles exposed to the confirmed cases are self-isolating...

"The nursery remains open to bubbles not exposed to confirmed cases."

Dr Victor Aiyedun, Consultant in Communicable Disease Control at PHE, said cases in the school setting could help scientists better understand the transmission of the disease.

"It will also provide insight into how the virus spreads in nursery settings as they prepare to welcome more children over the coming weeks,"he said.

Dublingirl80

pwurple wrote: »

And you've unilaterally determined that's the case is it? Mixed studies there to be fair.

Here's a case study of a 9 year old who attended 3 schools with Covid, while showing symptoms of the virus, and passed it on to exactly 0 people.
https://academic.oup.com/cid/article/doi/10.1093/cid/ciaa424/5819060

There's also an argument to be had for not having a blanket approach where everything is based on Dublin's infection rate.

Sligo hasn't had a case in weeks, same for Kerry. Why subject their schools to some draconian measures when there isn't a single case within 100 miles of them, just because the durty dubs are spreading it around? :pac:

People would have to be banned from entering and leaving sligo if it was to go county by county, plenty of people live in one county and work in another. I think this thread is going nowhere. Nobody knows what the rules will be in September. Hopefully it will be possible for everyone to go back as normal in a safe way for everyone involved. I honestly hope that everyone wants the best for all people involved, staff, kids, parents, parents of parents, when it comes to this virus the whole thing is interconnected anyway. Bottom line is nobody will benefit from the virus spreading in schools. Fingers crossed by the start of August things will have continued to improve ans this will all be possible. We are all optimistic but also worried and I think that's fair enough.

Strath2020

There is no social distancing going on locally here with teens so September in schools will be no different. The beaches and parks are packed. I think teachers are getting a hard time. They deserve to be provided with facial shields if they want them (at the very minimum) as they will be at risk. I can’t see students all wearing masks either unless they are compulsory. If a teacher or student gets sick with symptoms will the whole class or school have to isolate? I’d we do get a second wave what happens to the kids that can’t access WiFi where broadband is bad or they don’t have computers?

What about boarding schools or day schools with boarders? Kids coming from different counties and countries? Assuming the overseas students will have to quarantine before the other students arrive. I don’t think there are any easy answers to any of the questions. One thing I do know having homeschooled my teens since March is that it is a really really tough job.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

So HSE have published a hefty COVID-19
Interim recommendations for the reopening of schools and educational facilities document.

Guideline of at least 1 metre social distancing for schools (from 3rd class upwards). Masks not mandatory.

Looks good on paper but practically speaking, it is difficult to implement in any meaningful way.

Are teachers going to have to enforce this? How will they do that?

This will be the only place where kids will be socially distancing let's be honest.

Lots of detail in the document, it covers a lot.

Van.Bosch

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So guideline of 1 metre social distancing for schools (from 3rd class upwards). Masks not mandatory.

Looks good on paper but practically speaking, it is difficult to implement in any meaningful way.

Are teachers going to have to enforce this? How will they do that?

This will be the only place where kids will be socially distancing let's be honest.

My read of that is up to and including second class there is no restrictions and all students can go back full time from September. Am I reading it right?

BonsaiKitten

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So HSE have published a hefty COVID-19
Interim recommendations for the reopening of schools and educational facilities document.

Guideline of at least 1 metre social distancing for schools (from 3rd class upwards). Masks not mandatory.

Looks good on paper but practically speaking, it is difficult to implement in any meaningful way.

Are teachers going to have to enforce this? How will they do that?

This will be the only place where kids will be socially distancing let's be honest.

Lots of detail in the document, it covers a lot.

It's a nonsense. I couldn't fit all of my lot into the classroom at a 1m distance from one another. Never mind keeping social distancing from me. Aside from anything else, the room only have 2 person tables...

I don't mind going back myself but these guidelines are not realistic. They're setting us up to have to break them so that when infection rises again, they've something to point to.

iamwhoiam

Van.Bosch wrote: »

My read of that is up to and including second class there is no restrictions and all students can go back full time from September. Am I reading it right?

That was my understanding too . Up to third class no social distancing but children not to mix with other classes .

Mind you it seems daft when kids and teenagers are mixing already with no distancing on greens and playgrounds etc

More info here on the alternative “ pods” in senior classes

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/physical-distancing-for-older-pupils-pods-and-no-sharing-back-to-school-guidelines-revealed-39332590.html

khalessi

Zahir Bitter Cellist wrote: »

So HSE have published a hefty COVID-19
Interim recommendations for the reopening of schools and educational facilities document.

Guideline of at least 1 metre social distancing for schools (from 3rd class upwards). Masks not mandatory.

Looks good on paper but practically speaking, it is difficult to implement in any meaningful way.

Are teachers going to have to enforce this? How will they do that?

This will be the only place where kids will be socially distancing let's be honest.

Lots of detail in the document, it covers a lot.

THis is also one of the few areas where children are in a work environment apart from hospitals and creches which also have their requirements. It is also to protect teachers but be interesting to see how it will work.

boggerman1

More nonsense or is it box ticking for the schools to reopen in September.the school’s should be reopening as normal in august but my guess is that the teacher unions will sabre rattle and the whole thing will be solved by money being threw at them.

khalessi

boggerman1 wrote: »

More nonsense or is it box ticking for the schools to reopen in September.the school’s should be reopening as normal in august but my guess is that the teacher unions will sabre rattle and the whole thing will be solved by money being threw at them.

Love this attitude. That unionsteachers looking to ensure safety of their workforce will be solved by money, despite fact youre wrong.

Thank you for your enlightening post, it was thoroughly enjoying.

It is interesting you dont think the same of nurses or any other job that asks for health and safety.

harr

Actually a bit of normality this week , getting reports cards, book lists and what class teacher, kids actually excited to be getting the back to school stuff organised.
Then you get these recommendations today which I know in my sons school will be unworkable. Very small classroom, With the one meter being implanted his class will hold about 10 students so I don’t see how it’s workable and telling kids to stay two meters apart from friends is again going to be next to impossible... it’s definitely looking like break time will have to spent at desks.
I honestly don’t know what solution is but it’s really starting to affect my kids well being .. all they were holding onto was getting back to some normality in September.

brookers

Strath2020 wrote: »

There is no social distancing going on locally here with teens so September in schools will be no different. The beaches and parks are packed. I think teachers are getting a hard time. They deserve to be provided with facial shields if they want them (at the very minimum) as they will be at risk. I can’t see students all wearing masks either unless they are compulsory. If a teacher or student gets sick with symptoms will the whole class or school have to isolate? I’d we do get a second wave what happens to the kids that can’t access WiFi where broadband is bad or they don’t have computers?

What about boarding schools or day schools with boarders? Kids coming from different counties and countries? Assuming the overseas students will have to quarantine before the other students arrive. I don’t think there are any easy answers to any of the questions. One thing I do know having homeschooled my teens since March is that it is a really really tough job.

Im not a teacher and I feel it is really mean the way some journalists go all out to crucify them for standing up for their rights. I know for a fact because I worked there that if you asked a journalist to do something he was not comfortable with, the NUJ would be all over it. Why should one professional body dictate to another that they should go in to packed classrooms and put their health at risk. I have home schooled since march and it was bloody hard as my kids are not at the top of the class and so need that bit extra for them to get it, it often turned into a row which of course helps nobody and in the last weeks of june i just gave up as couldnt do it anymore. The teachers were fantastic. I cant see my chlldren going back full time, our school is tiny and so many children packed into rooms, there is not enough room to swing a cat and some of the kids in my children's class have medical issues where if they got a normal cold they would be out for days, i can think of about 4. Instead of berating unions for standing up for their members, can we just assume the children wont get school for the whole week but perhaps a couple of days and just hope things improve. Im already of that mind and ready for another term of home schooling a couple of mornings. If i feel the situation is not safe and things are looking a bit hairy with the virus I will take them out.

pwurple

brookers wrote: »

can we just assume the children wont get school for the whole week but perhaps a couple of days and just hope things improve. Im already of that mind and ready for another term of home schooling a couple of mornings. If i feel the situation is not safe and things are looking a bit hairy with the virus I will take them out.

I see where you're coming from , but where do you propose the kids go for the days they are not at school? Maybe they'll be where every other kid in the country is at the moment during the day. Either over in their friends houses, or with their grannies and grandads. They're all mixing either way now. And you'll have that huge stress for all caused by 'homeschooling', (Which it is NOT btw, if you talk to any real homeschooler, they are usually out visiting museums, taking trips etc).

It's also harmful and particularly damaging to children from disadvantaged homes, where there are parents who don't have the ability or even don't want to do it. Or those who have to work full time and don't have capacity to teach. Or don't have the resources. Not everyone has laptops, printers, supplies, high speed broadband to download activities or even the workspace to do it. Try being homeschooled on the floor of a caravan.

Or maybe try to be a widowed nurse, working 12 hour night shifts and then expected to teach 3 children of different ages.

Now put special needs on top of that.

Also, are you in any was reassured by the exceptionally low numbers of cases at the moment? 7 cases a day? 1 death? About a thousand people die in ireland from other causes every month.

We'll see in a few weeks is there some giant spike, hopefully not, but if the numbers are still at less than 10 cases a day by September, then it's under control. Why continue to damage our kids for that?

Put children's needs at the core of it. Followed by supporting our families.

wirelessdude01

boggerman1 wrote: »

More nonsense or is it box ticking for the schools to reopen in September.the school’s should be reopening as normal in august but my guess is that the teacher unions will sabre rattle and the whole thing will be solved by money being threw at them.

Did you come up with that original thought all on your own?

Funny how these unions still haven't got me pay parity then and that I'm still an LPT.