SeanW wrote: » I'm not going to defend a motorist who does something like passing you dangerously. But the fact remains that Andy complains about 98% of motorists break muh speed limits (usually while deflecting from cyclist lawbreaking) while fatalities on Irish roads are among the lowest not just in our history but against the vast majority of other countries. You say that this happens to you every time you cycle ... but in general are dangerous overtakes the majority? Or is it just a few motorists who do this?
Beta Ray Bill wrote: » I think it's more they don't want to pay the toll more so than anything else. I'll always use the motorway if I need to get somewhere fast.
Beta Ray Bill wrote: » That would involved the average motorist having to look at themselves in the mirror... and that's not going to happen. I will say though that when I do use the car it's only to collect my kid as he lives 30k round trip away. Apart from that my car sits in the driveway Monday to Friday
Beta Ray Bill wrote: » I don't know where you're getting the 2 or 3 a week being killed I had google there and it says 83 cyclists were killed between 2010 and 2018 that works out at 0.2 a week. In any case, even if they thought the use of a lifesaver, large amounts of cyclists do not do this. I notice because I'm on a motorcycle.
Beta Ray Bill wrote: » Theft, there's heaps of bikes nicked in Dublin every year.
Beta Ray Bill wrote: » Also, Regulation is a good thing. I've a helmet cam and record everything, I report dopes driving cars like dopes all the time.
SeanW wrote: » Correct. In 2018 Ireland suffered 149 road fatalities. That was among the lowest in the world by every relative measure. If you are in Ireland, you have an approximately 99.99625% of surviving us motorists every year.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate It's also near the lowest in Irish history, figures in the 100-200 range have not been seen since the 1940s.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_road_traffic_accidents_deaths_in_Republic_of_Ireland_by_year Irish drivers are not terrible. That's an indisputable fact. That doesn't stop sanctimonious two-wheeled hypocrites from hijacking every discussion with: bUt mOtOrIsTs aRe kIlLiNg eVeRyBoDy
SeanW wrote: » Firstly, there have been at least half a dozen routine pedestrians in this thread who can attest to the fact that Irish cyclists DO cause problems. And yet this entire thread has been a circle jerk of Andy and his fellow two-wheeled hypocrites crapping all over motorists ...
SeanW wrote: » Well, if that 149 had been in another country, they would been 200+. But what gets me about Andy and his circlejerk (and to be clear, I'm not including you in this per-se) is the hypocrisy. "No no, let's not talk about cyclist misbheaviour 98% OF MOTORISTS ARE LAWBREAKING SCUM!! WE NEED MASSIVE AMOUNTS OF OBSCENE OVERREGULATION ON MOTORISTS BECAUSE THEY'RE KILLING EVERYBODY!!" When you see this as a response to any criticism of cyclist lawbreaking, you have to wonder if there's not some kind of deflection going on.
FinnC wrote: » In fairness plenty on here have defended it and tried to justify it! Dont ask me for names of who as I have no idea of anyones usernames as I don't look at them.
Hurrache wrote: » Sean seems to be getting pretty stressed about this. A relaxing cycle would help him unwind.
SeanW wrote: » Nobody's trying to blame cyclists for road deaths. Nevertheless, Irish drivers are generally not dangerous. The data on that is clear. But there is a lot of deflection ...
SeanW wrote: » And it shows. Clearly.
TaurenDruid wrote: » Today's drive home: At the lights on the corner of Baggot Street/Ely Place/Merrion Street. Cyclist illegally cycles towards Stephen's Green, through a red light (in fairness he couldn't see the red light - but only because he was cycling the wrong way down a one-way street), crosses Ely Place, clearly heading for (really narrow) footpath. Pedestrian has to step on to road to let him onto it. Westland Row. Cyclist zooms past and straight through the junction, despite lights having gone red in time for the car in front of me to have stopped. Amiens Street. Cyclist heading towards town, having a facetime video conversation on his phone. North Strand Road, just before the fire station. Deliveroo cyclist on the footpath, forces two women pushing prams wide so he can stay on footpath, before speeding up as he hits the corner of Leinster Avenue and heads down the side streets.
ewc78 wrote: » I expect this post to be met with an unhealthy dose of Whataboutery.
AndrewJRenko wrote: » I'm not really sure that you'll want to play that game. In a one hour spin this evening, I saw two clear red light jumps, had words with two drivers that passed me with phones in their hands, lost count of the number of times I was pushed out into traffic by illegally parked cars and vans, had words with one driver blocking the path to make a phone call - and probably a pile of other offences. And let's not forget the idiot that tailgaited me for 20-30 seconds, before rushing past to stop at the next lights. But if you want a list, I'll keep a better eye out tomorrow. Hell, I can provide video evidence of most.
07Lapierre wrote: » Shocking! See post #1743
Charles Babbage wrote: » It is case of the "broken window syndrome". Allowing small scale crime go unpunished creates an atmosphere of lawlessness which facilitates bigger crime. Consequently, it is not a case of the police having better things to do.
The Republic of Ireland maintains a jaywalking law, which requires a pedestrian to use a pedestrian crossing if they are within 15.24 metres (50 feet) of one
TaurenDruid wrote: » So, what's your point? Some cyclists will continue to be assholes cos cops won't enforce the law?
Hurrache wrote: » Why are you still obsessed with something that has been made clear from the outset of this thread?
07Lapierre wrote: » Pretty much yes. Same for all roadusers and all ROTR.
micar wrote: » Drove past Castleblaney Garda station on Sunday. Plenty of cars each side and opposite parked on the footpath. If you go into Google street view, there are 14.
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Presumably you are also concerned about the kind of 'law breaking scum' 'menacing with intent' tarring of cyclists that we've seen here?
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Everybody agrees that there are people who behave terribly on all sides. The elephant in the room is that when drivers behave terribly, the outcome can be in a disastrously different league to when cyclists or pedestrians behave terribly. It's not a level playing field. And really, it's not about a few bad apples. If you look at the speeding rates and mobile phone usage rates of Irish drivers, it is more like a few good apples.
SeanW wrote: » You say that this happens to you every time you cycle ... but in general are dangerous overtakes the majority? Or is it just a few motorists who do this?
TaurenDruid wrote: » Yeah, but that's all fiiiine, Andy. We've already established this. How does it go again? "At the end of the day, nobody was hurt!" That's the one!
liamog wrote: » Yes, it's ridiculous, but given the posters who seem intent on making it an us versus them fight it's not that surprising. Which is exactly the point I was making.
liamog wrote: » I lived in Paris for the last year, they had great cycle lanes, and a really good system where a number of junctions are treated like yield signs for those on bikes. Perhaps instead of winding up every person who happens to sometimes use a car, it's better to advocate why it's an improvement for every road user. Change comes about from tragedy or broad coalition, maybe it's time we stop letting tragedy be the driver of improvements.
Zebra3 wrote: » Your attitude of playing down those who risk other people's lives is utterly vile.
Zebra3 wrote: » Close to 50/50 would be dangerous and illegal. Go cycle yourself down the Maynooth-Dunboyne and get the close call with criminal motorists. And if it's just a few motorists risking my life, is that ok with you? Your attitude of playing down those who risk other people's lives is utterly vile.
magicbastarder wrote: » this keeps coming up. *primary* school kids in the netherlands are nearly ten times as likely to cycle to school as *secondary* school pupils are in ireland. a distinct reason road deaths are as low as they are is because more vulnerable road users have been, in effect, bullied off the road.
AndrewJRenko wrote: » No, it goes like this - drivers kill about 3 people on the roads each week.
But if you want to start with small scale crime, should we start with the 98% of drivers that break urban speed limits?
It's not so much 'us against them' as it is 'evidence against emotion'.
And don't forget the playing down the risk of motoring is combined with attacking cyclists as 'lawbreaking scum' and 'menacing with intent'.
Thelonious Monk wrote: » Would you be in favour of the law below, or do you just think it's silly?
meeeeh wrote: » I would very much be in favour of that. As I would be in favour of fines for jaywalking. It might be a Central European thing. There is a joke British make about Germans that they will stand at read light waiting to cross even when there is no one around. Like that's a bad thing. You won't get orderly behaviour on roads if it's ok to obey rules selectively. It's as simple as that.
07Lapierre wrote: » Its a Joke...the real question is why a pedestrian light is red if there is no traffic?
Thelonious Monk wrote: » And of course it's a bad thing, that someone has to wait at the side of the road in case someone decides to drive past. Why should there be a hierarchy?
Thelonious Monk wrote: » No it's absolute bullsh*t that cars are given right of way in city centres over pedestrians. How the hell did we ever swallow that as being normal? Standing at Baggot St and Merrion St every day at lunch for what seems like an age, so many people stacked into a corner that they're spilling onto the roads, while we wait for 10 cars or whatever to pass. It just makes no sense. People should be allowed cross or walk where they like, "jaywalking" is something invented by the automotive industry.
07Lapierre wrote: » We should do as the Danes do:https://www.sciencealert.com/copenhagen-just-installed-environmentally-friendly-traffic-lights-that-give-priority-to-buses-and-bikes#:~:text=Denmark%20Just%20Installed%20Environmentally%20Friendly%20Traffic%20Lights,Priority%20to%20Bikes%20And%20Buses&text=Bus%20passengers%20should%20see%20a,10%20percent%20quicker%2C%20on%20average.
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