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Child Item

beef price tracker

49801

any interest in having a factory beef price tracker on here?

got 4 hiefers to go, 3rs and 1o

got the following quotes for base price on Mon 23 Jan

4.10e/kg aibp bandon
4.15e/kg aibp cahir

quotes including bord bia
am holding tough as hoping for 4.25e/kg

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Anto_Meath

charolais0153 wrote: »

farmers would be able to investigate massive conpanies and shell companies etc while blaming factories for no profits in factories:')

Farmers wouldnt but if the likes of beef plan & IFA put enough effort into it then tthey would, alot of this information is readly available through the likes of the CRO. A spot light on how Larry & his mates run their operations would pull them back into line somewhat. You can bet Larry isnt to happy with the IFJ tonight.

charolais0153

Anto_Meath wrote: »

Last year during the factory protests, I was saying it was the wrong thing to be doin as it was putting farmer against farmer. I think today hearing the stories about Larry I figured out how we can get at the factories. Investigate all the various companies they own, how they manage their taxes. As the saying goes follow the money. If farmers want better prices then we need to know where the money actually is. The one thing factory owners wouldnt like is their business dealings been investigated, if we can follow the money and start showing how the factory owners are abusing the system by tax avoidance then factories will be quick to up the quotes to keep farmers quite about their dealings.

farmers would be able to investigate massive conpanies and shell companies etc while blaming factories for no profits in factories:')

Water John

Slaney looking for organic cattle esp Angus.

Anto_Meath

Last year during the factory protests, I was saying it was the wrong thing to be doin as it was putting farmer against farmer. I think today hearing the stories about Larry I figured out how we can get at the factories. Investigate all the various companies they own, how they manage their taxes. As the saying goes follow the money. If farmers want better prices then we need to know where the money actually is. The one thing factory owners wouldnt like is their business dealings been investigated, if we can follow the money and start showing how the factory owners are abusing the system by tax avoidance then factories will be quick to up the quotes to keep farmers quite about their dealings.

ruwithme

Duke92 wrote: »

How

Let him sleep Duke

Duke92

Bass Reeves wrote: »

You are incorrect about milk

How

Bass Reeves

Duke92 wrote: »

Yes it’s supply and demand
Milk the same there nearly all around a 1/2 a cent difference in price
Grain the same never much more than a few euro difference in price
That is life

You are incorrect about milk

Bass Reeves

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s no doubt we are price takers at farm level but the the correlation between weekly kill, currency fluctuation and market demand does not directly link to beef price, . How can every processor have identical processing costs and how is there none pushing for increasing output, improving efficiencies and ousting their competitors? Week on week perfect uniformity in pricing for the vast majority of cattle which are coming from hobby sized farmers.

A cartel if you will...

8 families control a billion euro industry.

We aren’t on our own with this situation but this is interesting
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-15/u-s-meat-giants-face-biggest-attack-in-century-from-trump-probe?fbclid=IwAR23rlf3dQccaQ94LpSgvyYN4Z5pOOuwvHm-uMIgMjSvNxPbvZ7j6BEhxgI

If you look at the Irish beef industry you have to wonder how four operators have gone from being fairly small businesses controling 60ish % if the Irish beef processing to companies that control over 80%of Irish processing, over 50% of the UK processing as well as processing on other parts of Europe. As well a couple of them have diversified into other sectors, property, medical and nursing homes.all this in an industry where margins are supposed to be wafer thin.

Duke92

Jjameson wrote: »

There’s no doubt we are price takers at farm level but the the correlation between weekly kill, currency fluctuation and market demand does not directly link to beef price, . How can every processor have identical processing costs and how is there none pushing for increasing output, improving efficiencies and ousting their competitors? Week on week perfect uniformity in pricing for the vast majority of cattle which are coming from hobby sized farmers.

A cartel if you will...

8 families control a billion euro industry.

We aren’t on our own with this situation but this is interesting
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-15/u-s-meat-giants-face-biggest-attack-in-century-from-trump-probe?fbclid=IwAR23rlf3dQccaQ94LpSgvyYN4Z5pOOuwvHm-uMIgMjSvNxPbvZ7j6BEhxgI

Yes it’s supply and demand
Milk the same there nearly all around a 1/2 a cent difference in price
Grain the same never much more than a few euro difference in price
That is life

T0001

Aravo wrote: »

Animal tested last year on say 20th June and reading say on 23rd June. What is the expiry date for slaughter this year.

Factories operate a "no going home" policy on cattle presented.

There's info on the DAFM website about different scenarios where cattle sent are out of test.

https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/press/pressreleases/2010/april/title,41953,en.html

epfff

Aravo wrote: »

Animal tested last year on say 20th June and reading say on 23rd June. What is the expiry date for slaughter this year.

No expiry on slaughter date but dept will lock up herd probably after killing

Good loser

Jjameson wrote: »

So how have all the processors got identical operating cost? Despite geographical location,stage of development? Can you answer the question Jim power wasnt fit to. What is the formula that determines the price? How does every price pull and rise move with almost perfect uniformity? The retail price remains constant. The restaurant and catering industry tell us that there’s never any downward fluctuation in their purchasing.

You may well be right (I don’t think so but I’m only a gom of a small hobby farmer 5’11 with a beer belly.) but it is incredulous that we never organised a proper Investigation.

I agree with wrangler to a point about farmers with illogical conspiracy theories and such and bringing such stuff to any table is a waste of energy and actually weakens our case.

That's an easy one. Supply and demand determines price. That's why prices go up AND down. The market is constantly adjusting.

At the micro level the farmer has little clout. See every week in Market Trends in the IFJ where large sellers of lamb can squeeze 10c extra from the factory fairly often - but not always. When supplies are plentiful the factories can stick to their quotes.

Last year I wanted to sell 4 or 5 cattle. My agent said it was unlikely he could get €x per kg. as he had four loads of cattle stacked for the last two weeks looking for this price. And there was no budge. I let them off at the lower price.
It's not complicated.

Aravo

Animal tested last year on say 20th June and reading say on 23rd June. What is the expiry date for slaughter this year.

Fireside Solicitor

And you could say Charlie Haughey made him but there was nothing to stop the farmers doing the same deals with Haughey for the export refunds if they got their act together. Haughey didn’t care where his money was coming from!

Fireside Solicitor

An uncle of mine used deal with Larry back when he started out tangling. That was the early 60s. Look at how the diary co-ops have developed since and look at beef. You could argue that Larry took the place of a beef co-op but then he was allowed to as the farmers could never get cohesive like the dairy men

richie123

charolais0153 wrote: »

90% of beef is exported, doesnt nake muxh differnece what supervalu are doing tbh

The best answer to this whole beef price-fixing debate is go out and pay someone kill your own stock and store it at your own expense then deal with restaurant s wholesalers etc.
You won't be long about finding out how tight the margins are.
Beef is a high output low margin business..
That's how the Larry Goodman's of this world make there money.

charolais0153

Jjameson wrote: »

So how have all the processors got identical operating cost? Despite geographical location,stage of development? Can you answer the question Jim power wasnt fit to. What is the formula that determines the price? How does every price pull and rise move with almost perfect uniformity? The retail price remains constant. The restaurant and catering industry tell us that there’s never any downward fluctuation in their purchasing.

You may well be right (I don’t think so but I’m only a gom of a small hobby farmer 5’11 with a beer belly.) but it is incredulous that we never organised a proper Investigation.

I agree with wrangler to a point about farmers with illogical conspiracy theories and such and bringing such stuff to any table is a waste of energy and actually weakens our case.

90% of beef is exported, doesnt nake muxh differnece what supervalu are doing tbh

Grueller

Duke92 wrote: »

I’m beginning to think most people on here a small hobbie farmers that don’t really have a clue about finishing cattle
But have feck all else to be doing only giving out

10/10 for condescension there Duke.

Fireside Solicitor

Jim Power wasn’t able to answer it because he doesn’t have access to the management accounts of each processor (not the statutory accounts) and the communication records between processors. There are plenty of ways to manage margin and the most important one of all is to make sure you are buying your inputs (our cattle) at the right price and the right mix.

All that said cattle processing is not a high margin business. It is a low margin and all about volume. The retailers in some circumstances demand open books before they will give a contract.

A bread maker here years ago told me that Tesco sent over their bread team to him to go through his books and make sure his costs were as efficient as possible before they would price his bread contract. They even looked at his flour arrangements and forced him to buy forward. On price increases the way the bread lads did it was a simple as one of them would agree to put the price up and go first with the retailer then the others would follow. The retailer would put up with it when they had demand but would then delist some bread makers when things got tight. The delisted boy had to discount to get back in on the shelf and so the price overall came back again. The same principles apply with meat processing from the retailers perspective. The Government should introduce minimum price legislation but they’ll never do that.

Farmers don’t want to hear it but whatever bargaining power they had on beef was lost a long time ago. You now have a family farm model versus large retailer model and the two just don’t mix. The processor is in the middle and doing everything they can to keep their profits up. Then to top all the consumer taste is moving. Only way is for Government legislation on the retailers.

wrangler

893bet wrote: »

But he can control the price through his own feedlots. If the price goes up due to increased demand/competition he can kill more from controlled feedlot which increases supply and drags price back down.

They don't just appear in the feedlots, surely he has to go out and compete in the market place for their replacements

kk.man

wrangler wrote: »

Or anywhere that irish farmers congregate,
You never see a word about larrys' conspiracies on english farming forums or 'everyones out to get us' theories
much healthier altogether

That's not true Wrangler one site recently posted the famous 'world in action' program via utube and then they published an article from the 'Scottish Farmer' tbh they really want to town on him.
I actually thought it was unfair how far they went.

893bet

Good loser wrote: »

So why did the price of cattle go up by 20 to 25c per kg a couple of months ago? If LG pulls prices down he must also be responsible for them going up.

And why did he settle on those numbers?
Give that a think.

But he can control the price through his own feedlots. If the price goes up due to increased demand/competition he can kill more from controlled feedlot which increases supply and drags price back down.

Good loser

charolais0153 wrote: »

Wrangler has said it before, we are undercutting the british so logically our price is behind theirs, wonder what the brits think of lg

Why not address my questions?

Surely all meat factories sell their product at the best price they can achieve? (that.s how I sell my cattle).

Why would they do otherwise?

wrangler

Fireside Solicitor wrote: »

Just like an IFA meeting

Or anywhere that irish farmers congregate,
You never see a word about larrys' conspiracies on english farming forums or 'everyones out to get us' theories
much healthier altogether

Fireside Solicitor

Duke92 wrote: »

I’m beginning to think most people on here a small hobbie farmers that don’t really have a clue about finishing cattle
But have feck all else to be doing only giving out

Just like an IFA meeting

charolais0153

Good loser wrote: »

So why did the price of cattle go up by 20 to 25c per kg a couple of months ago? If LG pulls prices down he must also be responsible for them going up.

And why did he settle on those numbers?
Give that a think.

Wrangler has said it before, we are undercutting the british so logically our price is behind theirs, wonder what the brits think of lg

Good loser

tanko wrote: »

To suggest that supply and demand determines the price of fat cattle is utter rubbish.
The beef market in Ireland is a classic example of a price fixing monopoly/cartel.

So why did the price of cattle go up by 20 to 25c per kg a couple of months ago? If LG pulls prices down he must also be responsible for them going up.

And why did he settle on those numbers?
Give that a think.

Hershall

memorystick wrote: »

Any quotes

3.60 midlands hfrs and bks

memorystick

Any quotes

blue5000

Duke92 wrote: »

I’m beginning to think most people on here a small hobbie farmers that don’t really have a clue about finishing cattle
But have feck all else to be doing only giving out

I reckon every beef farmer, big or small is a hobby farmer, certainly not in it for the money at present anyway.