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mark of the beast

harrylittle

Mod: moved from Christianity june 11 2020

On the late late show last friday it had a guy with a chip in his right hand and I immediatly thought of revelation 13 . This is probably the prelude to the mark of the beast as stated 2000 years ago in the bible that would happen in the end of days.

"The second beast was given power to give breath to the image of the first beast, so that the image could speak and cause all who refused to worship the image to be killed. 16 It also forced all people, great and small, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hands or on their foreheads, 17 so that they could not buy or sell unless they had the mark, which is the name of the beast or the number of its name."

"A third angel followed them and said in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the beast and its image and receives its mark on their forehead or on their hand, 10 they, too, will drink the wine of God’s fury, which has been poured full strength into the cup of his wrath. They will be tormented with burning sulfur in the presence of the holy angels and of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name."

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Ted_YNWA

pearcider wrote:

Youâ€™re a small minded and tiresome poster with little in the way of intelligence that I can see.

Timberrrrrrrr wrote:

That's not very Christian of you, love thy neighbour and all that shÃ¬te right?

Rein the aggro down a couple of notches

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

Satan rules the world.

Right, when did he start ruling the world, was there a start date? and what happened on that day?

[Deleted User]

pearcider wrote: »

No it isn’t because the satanic world order could not exist at any time in history since Christ except now. Now we have the technology to make his domination real.

Erm, so previous generations have had lynchings, a slave trade that colonialism was built off of. Then back a bit further, witch trials, crusades, Spanish inquisitions and the ability to buy your way into heaven with indulgences. But it's now that Satan has taken over? You really think that the current generation is where the moral deficit is because people don't go to mass?

Tell me, what are these moral failures that makes us so much worse?

Overheal

Callie Billions Author wrote: »

You may be the rare exception. Perhaps your defence of all things Islamic could be a factor at play here? i.e. your're not a genuine athiest, or still have one foot somewhere else.

Cut this out.

pearcider

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Right, when did he start ruling the world, was there a start date? and what happened on that day?

You are tiresome and I won’t debate a poster like you who seeks to catch people out with cheap sarcasm and childish jibes. I doubt you have one honest bone in your body. You are at best a cynical skeptic, bitter and closed minded to the beauty and wonder of the world. At worst you are his servant whether you know it or not.

Regarding the problem of evil. You only have to look at the world and who rules it to see the truth of the matter.

pearcider

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Erm, so previous generations have had lynchings, a slave trade that colonialism was built off of. Then back a bit further, witch trials, crusades, Spanish inquisitions and the ability to buy your way into heaven with indulgences. But it's now that Satan has taken over? You really think that the current generation is where the moral deficit is because people don't go to mass?

Tell me, what are these moral failures that makes us so much worse?

Christianity abolished most of those ills by gradual reform of the human spirit. Christianity transformed the horrific Roman Empire into the incredibly forward looking and modern Byzantine empire which had no slavery or lynching but was ruled by law codified under Justin the Great and which we still use. Unfortunately it was destroyed by the money men of Venice and the Moslems of Turkey. Woe to the day when Constantinople fell, the jewel of Christendom.

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

You are tiresome and I won’t debate a poster like you who seeks to catch people out with cheap sarcasm and childish jibes. I doubt you have one honest bone in your body. You are at best a cynical skeptic, bitter and closed minded to the beauty and wonder of the world. At worst you are his servant whether you know it or not.

Regarding the problem of evil. You only have to look at the world and who rules it to see the truth of the matter.

I'm asking straightforward questions.

If you are stating something as fact on a public forum, then you should at least be able to support it in some way

If you can't, then at least be honest and preface it as a personal opinion, which it seems to be

[Deleted User]

pearcider wrote: »

Christianity abolished most of those ills by gradual reform of the human spirit. Christianity transformed the horrific Roman Empire into the incredibly forward looking and modern Byzantine empire which had no slavery or lynching but was ruled by law codified under Justin the Great and which we still use. Unfortunately it was destroyed by the money men of Venice and the Moslems of Turkey. Woe to the day when Constantinople fell the jewel of Christendom.

And you haven't answered my question. Slavery and lynching are in far more recent memory btw. But why is it that you view the current generation to be at such a moral deficit?

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

You are not an honest debater. You’re a one liner merchant.

Right and your one-liner was "Satan rules the world", which you apparently avoid taking questions on

It's not exactly a strong case you have there..

Overheal

pearcider wrote: »

I won’t debate a poster like you who seeks to catch people out with cheap sarcasm and childish jibes.

Can't we all have a discussion instead of a debate?

pearcider

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And you haven't answered my question. Slavery and lynching are in far more recent memory btw. But why is it that you view the current generation to be at such a moral deficit?

I didn’t say that. I just said the architecture of the beast system is now possible which it wasn’t in the 1800 years up until now. You can make your own judgements on how moral or otherwise people are today. My view is that people are the same as they’ve always been. But now the dark powers manipulate people and that rule the Earth are many times more powerful than they were in the past.

pearcider

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Right and your one-liner was "Satan rules the world", which you apparently avoid taking questions on

It's not exactly a strong case you have there..

Well I actually quoted the Bible first and you were confused with that. The passage makes clear who rules the world.

[Deleted User]

pearcider wrote: »

I didn’t say that. I just said the architecture of the beast system is now possible which it wasn’t in the 1800 years up until now. You can make your own judgements on how moral or otherwise people are today. My view is that people are the same as they’ve always been. But now the dark powers manipulate people and that rule the Earth are many times more powerful than they were in the past.

And I would say pretty much every generation since the industrial revolution could make such a vague claim. The invention of electricity, air travel, evolutions in telecommunications. Introduction of satellites and in more recent times, the claim has been made about barcodes.

Dohnjoe

pearcider wrote: »

Well I actually quoted the Bible first and you were confused with that. The passage makes clear who rules the world.

You quoted some very vague stuff from an old book. The vagueness is always deliberate. To demonstrate:

e.g. "Satan" has ruled the world since when exactly? in what way?

Fiction is always light on details and in this case, highly subjective. Whatever you are coming up with is basically your personal interpretation of something. Can't read your mind, hence the questions.

pearcider

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And I would say pretty much every generation since the industrial revolution could make such a vague claim. The invention of electricity, air travel, evolutions in telecommunications. Introduction of satellites and in more recent times, the claim has been made about barcodes.

There is a very specific claim at stake here. That is the mark of the beast that nobody on the Earth may buy and sell without this mark. There is absolutely no way this could be possible up until quite recently as we had no SWIFT and no smart phones and no satellites. Cut it any way you wish but this is a deeply disturbing fact to a believer such as myself.

pearcider

Dohnjoe wrote: »

You quoted some very vague stuff from an old book. The vagueness is always deliberate. To demonstrate:

e.g. "Satan" has ruled the world since when exactly? in what way?

Fiction is always light on details and in this case, highly subjective. Whatever you are coming up with is basically your personal interpretation of something. Can't read your mind, hence the questions.

The fact that you denigrate the Bible as just another “old book” says it all to me. I won’t be replying to you again.

[Deleted User]

pearcider wrote: »

There is a very specific claim at stake here. That is the mark of the beast that nobody on the Earth may buy and sell without this mark. There is absolutely no way this could be possible up until quite recently as we had no SWIFT and no smart phones and no satellites. Cut it any way you wish but this is a deeply disturbing fact to a believer such as myself.

But with barcodes tattoo ed onto the hand and forehead, a shopkeeper could scan them before buying or selling things.
This would actually fit the description in the Bible.

What's being suggested with current technology does not match the description in the Bible as either it's not something in the hand or the forehead or its not a mark.

So it's a bit weird to claim you believe the Bible while also saying the Bibles description is wrong.

The idea of barcodes being the mark of the beast is more accurate than what's being claimed now.

[Deleted User]

pearcider wrote: »

There is a very specific claim at stake here. That is the mark of the beast that nobody on the Earth may buy and sell without this mark. There is absolutely no way this could be possible up until quite recently as we had no SWIFT and no smart phones and no satellites. Cut it any way you wish but this is a deeply disturbing fact to a believer such as myself.

And barcodes were previously treated as the mark. Other things that could be the mark, credit cards and cheques. Or even to go further back, currencies in general. You can't buy and sell without money so what's to say that isn't the mark? You can make it suit whatever you want.

one world order

Bible says this world is controlled by the evil one and warns us not to be deceived. This is a book written over 1,500 years, about 2,000 years ago and is proving to be true when you look at today's world and the evil controlling it who are working behind the scenes. It also says we are sinners which separates us from God. This was the reason why we needed a saviour as Jesus took the punishment for our sins.

[Deleted User]

Hey at least people aren't pretending that this whole thing isn't a fringe religious conspiracy theory any more.

Doesn't it feel good to be direct and honest about it?

pearcider

King Mob wrote: »

But with barcodes tattoo ed onto the hand and forehead, a shopkeeper could scan them before buying or selling things.
This would actually fit the description in the Bible.

What's being suggested with current technology does not match the description in the Bible as either it's not something in the hand or the forehead or its not a mark.

So it's a bit weird to claim you believe the Bible while also saying the Bibles description is wrong.

The idea of barcodes being the mark of the beast is more accurate than what's being claimed now.

Barcodes would be easy to get around if we still had cash and currency and this would not be a good system. Now however we face a never ending war on cash and all financial transactions are recorded on central databases in real time. Furthermore all governments and their intelligence services have built up the system from the ground up. See Ed Snowden etc. The system also needs real time surveillance with cctv and facial recognition. All only possible in the last few years and unthinkable in 100AD.

Dohnjoe

one world order wrote: »

Bible says this world is controlled by the evil one and warns us not to be deceived. This is a book written over 1,500 years, about 2,000 years ago and is proving to be true when you look at today's world and the evil controlling it who are working behind the scenes. It also says we are sinners which separates us from God. This was the reason why we needed a saviour as Jesus took the punishment for our sins.

Or perhaps it's all made up like hundreds of other beliefs and religions because human beings haven't had the means to explain stuff for much of our existence

Perhaps it's supposed to be taken metaphorically as a blueprint for living (in a time when there weren't governments), instead of being taken literally..

Ipso

one world order wrote: »

Bible says this world is controlled by the evil one and warns us not to be deceived. This is a book written over 1,500 years, about 2,000 years ago and is proving to be true when you look at today's world and the evil controlling it who are working behind the scenes. It also says we are sinners which separates us from God. This was the reason why we needed a saviour as Jesus took the punishment for our sins.

Just today’s world? What about the tribes slaughtered by gods chosen people, the crusades, thirty years war etc
Not exactly fun times.

[Deleted User]

pearcider wrote: »

Barcodes would be easy to get around if we still had cash and currency and this would not be a good system. .

Same is true for quantum dot tattoos or whatever it is you believe.

Satan or whoever could have also banned cash to force people to use the mark system with bar codes.

pearcider wrote: »

The system also needs real time surveillance with cctv and facial recognition.

Which part of the Bible states this?

one world order

Ipso wrote: »

Just today’s world? What about the tribes slaughtered by gods chosen people, the crusades, thirty years war etc
Not exactly fun times.

The tribes that existed when the Jews took over that area after coming out of Egypt were ungodly. They sacrificed their young, worshipped false Gods and had to be wiped out for a new nation to be created that kept God's commandments, but ultimately a new covenant for all mankind was required.

one world order

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Or perhaps it's all made up like hundreds of other beliefs and religions because human beings haven't had the means to explain stuff for much of our existence

Perhaps it's supposed to be taken metaphorically as a blueprint for living (in a time when there weren't governments), instead of being taken literally..

It is still relevant today as it was 2,000 years ago. Jesus is still at work in many people's lives around the world. He has rescued the lost and given meaning and purpose to many. Jesus has shown some people what hell and heaven are really like and it has resulted in their lives been changed forever.

Dohnjoe

one world order wrote: »

It is still relevant today as it was 2,000 years ago. Jesus is still at work in many people's lives around the world. He has rescued the lost and given meaning and purpose to many. Jesus has shown some people what hell and heaven are really like and it has resulted in their lives been changed forever.

Skipped Auschwitz and Rwanda, but suppose there's a moral lesson in there somewhere, or some cheap vagueness to explain it away..

one world order

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Skipped Auschwitz and Rwanda, but suppose there's a moral lesson in there somewhere, or some cheap vagueness to explain it away..

Both committed by man's sinful nature.

Dohnjoe

one world order wrote: »

Both committed by man's sinful nature.

Always man's fault when it's convenient, but divine when it isn't. Odd that

one world order

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Always man's fault when it's convenient, but divine when it isn't. Odd that

We have free will to accept God or reject him.