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Police Shooting USA. Rayshard Brooks.

lawrencesummers

Cops called because a guy was asleep in his car in the queue for a drive through.
Failed field sobriety test.
Tussled with cops.
Shot and killed.
Looks on the outset like another use of excessive Force by police, but there is so much more wrong with it.

One cop has been fired and the other is Put on leave.

Firing somebody that immediately and without due process is probably in a bid to quell the protests - (but it hasn’t) But it can’t be right, surely these matters need investigation, statements and the a just decision, which may well be dismissal / charges filed etc.

There is a big risk of the authorities in the USA actually losing their own police force if they don’t maintain the law and order and due process that everyone deserves. Has the cop in this instance actually violated the procedures That are given to him for arresting people? If a cop needs to be fired then fine, fire hundreds of them but only after due process.

RIP the victim, On his daughters birthday apparently.

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Pkiernan

Dangerously stupid to drive drunk, fight the cops and then grab a weapon off them.

And before the left ultras say a taser is not a weapon, civilians are prohibited from owning them all across Europe.

This is not the same as poor George Floyd who was a victim of murder.

blackbox

Rodin wrote: »

The mindset that Im just going to stand there and let a guy tase me?

Maybe if you didn't have a gun you'd have found an alternative course of action and you'd both be alive.

Figel Narage

suicide_circus wrote: »

If kids are taught from a young age that cops are going to kill them, is it any wonder they resist arrest, even for a minor charge like DUI.

I'm going out on a limb here but the majority of times these guys resist so much is because they have previous records and assume that getting arrested again will bring about a heavy sentence if convicted of something. I think the police officers could have handled this a lot better but I don't think anyone has experienced a taser first hand (Could be wrong). Even at a less powerful level, it incapacitates you and I can't imagine what the more powerful ones the police use is like. If the police officer allowed himself to get tased, the guy could have taken his gun or done whatever else

lawrencesummers

[PHP][/PHP]

Rodin wrote: »

If that's all there is and I haven't been punched then no.
But a taser is a completely different animal as is a baseball bat

You don’t see the contradictions in what your saying unfortunately.

A punch can kill you as quick as a baseball bat, and a baseball bat can do a lot more damage than a taser, especially to a Cop because in the US they wear Bulletproof vests so a taser won’t reach the skin like when it’s used against a civilian.

The simple fact here is fists, bats, tasers are non lethal weapons and they don’t justify the use of lethal violence except in Rare cases, and a suspect running in the other direction isn’t one of them.

lawrencesummers

Pkiernan wrote: »

Dangerously stupid to drive drunk, fight the cops and then grab a weapon off them.

And before the left ultras say a taser is not a weapon, civilians are prohibited from owning them all across Europe.

This is not the same as poor George Floyd who was a victim of murder.

Apparently he wasn’t driving, he was asleep in the parking lot.
Nobody says a taser isn’t a weapon, but the cops say it’s a non lethal weapon.

Mattdhg

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The restaurant where this has happened has been burned down as well.

So all their employees are now out of a job.

Saw it, absolutely ridiculous.

Loads of cars in the parking lot burnt out too.

None of that is helping the movement, especially since this is not as clear cut an injustice as some of the other deaths.

lawrencesummers

Figel Narage wrote: »

I'm going out on a limb here but the majority of times these guys resist so much is because they have previous records and assume that getting arrested again will bring about a heavy sentence if convicted of something. I think the police officers could have handled this a lot better but I don't think anyone has experienced a taser first hand (Could be wrong). Even at a less powerful level, it incapacitates you and I can't imagine what the more powerful ones the police use is like. If the police officer allowed himself to get tased, the guy could have taken his gun or done whatever else

So do you think the shooting is justified ?

lawrencesummers

Mattdhg wrote: »

Saw it, absolutely ridiculous.

Loads of cars in the parking lot burnt out too.

None of that is helping the movement, especially since this is not as clear cut an injustice as some of the other deaths.

It’s unnecessary, but it shows the level of anger that exists and it looks like property damage will be the order of the day for sometime when things like this happen.

I can’t help but think about the person who said calling the cops on a Black person in the US should be treated as attempted murder. That could be where the anger towards the restaurant is coming from.

frag420

Was the taser he took not the one that was used on him?

If yes it was rendered obsolete by the cop so the dead ma would have had an absolute non fatal weapon in his hands unless he knew how to reload it?

Thats assuming its the type that fires little wired up pins that send the shock. Of course the other option would be it was the type that you need to be standing beside someone to shock them in which case he was many meters ahead of the police when they shot him with a non lethal weapon that was made even more non lethal through distance...

I guess we shall have to wait and see

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So do you think the shooting is justified ?

The police officers voices sounded very panicked... I think it was an excessive use of force. But mostly they just handled a co-operative drunk man very poorly. They should be aware that most black guys will be very nervous about being arrested in light of recent events....

More calm officers would have handled this much better imo. They were on edge and trigger happy... (3 shots for a guy with a taser? Why not one in the leg to incapacitate him if you're going to use your gun at all?)

Rows Grower

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Apparently he wasn’t driving, he was asleep in the parking lot.
Nobody says a taser isn’t a weapon, but the cops say it’s a non lethal weapon.

If he uses the taser on the cop then he can take the cops gun.

Figel Narage

lawrencesummers wrote: »

So do you think the shooting is justified ?

I don't know, if I was in a similar situation and a guy had a taser pointed at me I'm not gong to let him use it. These things always escalate out of control in America. On the surface reading it, the guy was shot for sleeping in his car, when looking at the video, he was shot for stealing a taser and potentially using it on the police, it should never have escalated to this point but it did and actions had to be taken

frag420

frag420 wrote: »

Was the taser he took not the one that was used on him?

If yes it was rendered obsolete by the cop so the dead ma would have had an absolute non fatal weapon in his hands unless he knew how to reload it?

Thats assuming its the type that fires little wired up pins that send the shock. Of course the other option would be it was the type that you need to be standing beside someone to shock them in which case he was many meters ahead of the police when they shot him with a non lethal weapon that was made even more non lethal through distance...

I guess we shall have to wait and see

Just looked online...

Can the taser cartridges be reused? Once a taser is fired, the cartridge can not be reused and must be replaced after every use. If the taser cartridge has not been used, it must be replaced every 5 years due to the limitations of the lithium ion batteries used in tasers.

Noe we wait confirmation on this but if in fact he took the taser that was used on him then the cop would have known that it could not be used again unless the victim had a stash of cartridges in his pants which I doubt.

Mattdhg

This is the CCTV from the Wendy's where it all happened https://youtu.be/2Z1HCJpo4N4

To me, it looks like Rayshard was being chased by Officer A and turns around and successfully tases him because the officer slams into the car. Officer B is getting up from where they had the initial struggle with him, sees Rayshard with the taser out and shoots him while running over.

Thats just my impression of the video... If its right then you would have a lot more sympathy for the police involved

baldshin

It's really easy to break this down play by play in hindsight. But what happened, happened very quickly. The brain only sees a taser being pointed at you while adrenaline is high, it doesn't really quickly tell you that the taser has already been used. In fact, even if you quickly process already having used a taser, where is your partner's taser? Do you know? Is it holstered, or is it in this guy's hand?

Cookie_Monster

lawrencesummers wrote: »

Is that justified? Using lethal force against someone who has a non lethal weapon? Is shooting someone who has a baseball bat allowed?

Yeah, if he had a bat tazing him would prob be proportionate, rather than shooting but all depends on the context of the situation.

[Deleted User]

Figel Narage wrote: »

I don't know, if I was in a similar situation and a guy had a taser pointed at me I'm not gong to let him use it. These things always escalate out of control in America. On the surface reading it, the guy was shot for sleeping in his car, when looking at the video, he was shot for stealing a taser and potentially using it on the police, it should never have escalated to this point but it did and actions had to be taken

What if you didn't have a gun, what would you do then? Step back out of range and verbally try to get him to not use it I'd guess

Ardent

frag420 wrote: »

Noe we wait confirmation on this but if in fact he took the taser that was used on him then the cop would have known that it could not be used again unless the victim had a stash of cartridges in his pants which I doubt.

What if the victim instead had a concealed weapon in his pants? In the heat of the moment, with a weapon pointed at you, there isn't time to reflect.

joe40

riffmongous wrote: »

Do you think in any other western democracy this situation would have the same outcome?

I think this is the point that is lost. America is the dominant country in the western world but the way they handle their domestic affairs is a shambles.
From health to education to social welfare it is all fcuked up.

That man should not be dead. If the police life is not at risk then he should not be shot. Running away should not be a death sentence.

frag420

Ardent wrote: »

What if the victim instead had a concealed weapon in his pants? In the heat of the moment, with a weapon pointed at you, there isn't time to reflect.

Then why would he need to steal a taser?

Figel Narage

riffmongous wrote: »

What if you didn't have a gun, what would you do then? Step back out of range and verbally try to get him to not use it I'd guess

No idea, probably run away, don't want to get tased

Wanderer78

suicide_circus wrote: »

between who and who?

themselves

Gretas Gonna Get Ya!

joe40 wrote: »

I think this is the point that is lost. America is the dominant country in the western world but the way they handle their domestic affairs is a shambles.
From health to education to social welfare it is all fcuked up.

That man should not be dead. If the police life is not at risk then he should not be shot. Running away should not be a death sentence.

They completely lost their sh!t... the officer panicked and used lethal force, where the simple threat of lethal force would probably have been more effective.

He was drunk but co-operating. Why put his hands behind his back and cuff him? And why not calmly explain that you're going to cuff him beforehand, and ask him to calmly co-operate?

The sudden transition from talking with the officers, to then being cuffed, seems to have set off the "fight or flight" response for the black guy. (Probably because he feared being the next victim of white police brutality... can't really blame him tbh)

lawrencesummers

Rows Grower wrote: »

If he uses the taser on the cop then he can take the cops gun.

There was two cops there, if he had been able to use it, and it had incapacitated the cop there was still another cop there.

jucko

i have lived in Atlanta for years.
i got in a fight with an armed off duty cop one night, who was legally working as security at a nightclub.it was outside nightclub as i was leaving. The cop was being unreasonable, but it was mostly my fault. i had forgotten my jacket and my wallet was in it. I should have come back next day etc..

during the row, i ended up with the gun. The reason i'm alive today is because i'm white.
It went to court, officer got compensated and didnt show up.
i got off pretty handy in fairness.

God love this man and his family, he was drunk and stupid like i was, but he didnt deserve to die. Dealing with a man celebrating a party and being stupid (maybe for once!) by killing him is crazy, let him walk home, get over it.

This BLM is ridiculous and creating more hate and putting hate in the souls of our children.

The anxiety of parents of black children trying to do their best for them is so sad.
thats my 2 bits,

frag420

Rows Grower wrote: »

Protesters have burned down the Wendy's restaurant where the incident happened and it looks like this is going to escalate into more nationwide protests under the flag of BLM.

Sorry the man has died but the colour of his skin had nothing to do with it.

I disagree, I would wager if it had been a white guy asleep in his car then the police would not have been called so his skin colour at the very least indirectly led to his death.

Rows Grower

frag420 wrote: »

I disagree, I would wager if it had been a white guy asleep in his car then the police would not have been called so his skin colour at the very least indirectly led to his death.

If it was a white guy asleep in his car he would probably wake up on the tarmac with no wallet or watch.

lawrencesummers

jucko wrote: »

i have lived in Atlanta for years.
i got in a fight with an armed off duty cop one night, who was legally working as security at a nightclub.it was outside nightclub as i was leaving. The cop was being unreasonable, but it was mostly my fault. i had forgotten my jacket and my wallet was in it. I should have come back next day etc..

during the row, i ended up with the gun. The reason i'm alive today is because i'm white.
It went to court, officer got compensated and didnt show up.
i got off pretty handy in fairness.

God love this man and his family, he was drunk and stupid like i was, but he didnt deserve to die. Dealing with a man celebrating a party and being stupid (maybe for once!) by killing him is crazy, let him walk home, get over it.

This BLM is ridiculous and creating more hate and putting hate in the souls of our children.

The anxiety of parents of black children trying to do their best for them is so sad.
thats my 2 bits,

It’s interesting that your willing to acknowledge that Black people get killed in situations with police that white people dont, but you think BLM is ridiculous.

That’s a massive contradiction.

Sam Hain

jucko wrote: »

i have lived in Atlanta for years.
i got in a fight with an armed off duty cop one night, who was legally working as security at a nightclub.it was outside nightclub as i was leaving. The cop was being unreasonable, but it was mostly my fault. i had forgotten my jacket and my wallet was in it. I should have come back next day etc..

during the row, i ended up with the gun. The reason i'm alive today is because i'm white.
It went to court, officer got compensated and didnt show up.
i got off pretty handy in fairness.

God love this man and his family, he was drunk and stupid like i was, but he didnt deserve to die. Dealing with a man celebrating a party and being stupid (maybe for once!) by killing him is crazy, let him walk home, get over it.

This BLM is ridiculous and creating more hate and putting hate in the souls of our children.

The anxiety of parents of black children trying to do their best for them is so sad.
thats my 2 bits,

Cool story, bro.

zpehtsfd

Gretas Gonna Get Ya! wrote: »

They completely lost their sh!t... the officer panicked and used lethal force, where the simple threat of lethal force would probably have been more effective.

He was drunk but co-operating. Why put his hands behind his back and cuff him? And why not calmly explain that you're going to cuff him beforehand, and ask him to calmly co-operate?

The sudden transition from talking with the officers, to then being cuffed, seems to have set off the "fight or flight" response for the black guy. (Probably because he feared being the next victim of white police brutality... can't really blame him tbh)

The cop clearly states that he is going to cuff him before putting them on. Putting his hands behind his back and cuffing him is normal procedure for a DUI.

The question you should be asking is why he decided to resist arrest. He had absolutely no reason to fear for his life and knew full well that resisting would put him in a worse position with the cops. To say you can't really blame him for resisting is absolute nonsense.