Rosita wrote: » rainbowtrout wrote: » The virus is pretty much gone from the community. /quote] There's absolutely no way of knowing that without an extensive testing regime in place. Numbers are low but why wouldn't they be after three months lockdown. But that's a long way from saying it's gone away. .... But the idea that there can be a different safety regime in one workplace (a school) from another down the road (a shop or bank) is not tenable. Either all safety protocols are dropped everywhere (which will not happen) or we have a problem in schools. Even without an extensive testing regime, there would be higher numbers reporting to their doctors with symptoms. All that was published yesterday was that it's proposed that all students go back to school in September. PPE etc wasn't mentioned, that doesn't mean it won't be used. It's 2.5 months away, far too early to call exactly what will be needed. TheValeyard wrote: » So a school with 1000 students can open. But not a football ground, concert, of social occasions with similar number. I think there is a bit of a disconnect here. Actually it's crowds of over 5000 are banned for the forseeable future so according to the last phase of the guidelines which is due to come in mid August, 1000 is fine. Presumably this will happen some time in July now. Mardy Bum wrote: » Leave should be granted for immunocompromised staff and any staff living with an immunocompromised person. If the DES can manage this it, it will be a start. I doubt it will happen because the virus could be around indefinitely. They are not going to give indefinite leave. Bobtheman wrote: » If you want to sarcrifice your health that's your decision. Best of luck with that. I don't think cancelling the LC was for money reasons..in this country all you got to utter in a loud ( preferably female voice ) is " What about the children? Will anybody think of them?' and everyone panics. It would have been better if a decision on the leaving cert was delayed until late May. A final decision. There was no rush for it. About a hundred thousand people won't be back in work by January 2020. Most permanent job losses. But we spend countless front pages talking about the LC ? Give me a break. I don't want to sacrifice my health, nor do I believe I will be by returning to work. The SEC/DES have saved about €50 million by not running the LC/JC this year. There were plenty of venues available outside of schools that could have accommodated students, there was plenty of discussion around it on this forum. It could have run in June, not to mind August. I see plenty of my students out in the local park in large groups over the last week, I presume they are not unique Not sure why you have to have a dig at women regarding the Leaving Cert cancellation. Every media outlet was calling for it. And most of the people around the table that makes these decisions were men. More than 100k people will be out of work in January 2021 if schools don't open as many parents won't be able to go back to work as they won't have childcare. This would probably disproportionately affect women as they tend to be the primary carers. Bobtheman wrote: » Shock horror. One boards poster with an axe to grind lifts his leg ?! Get me the smelling salts. We came out pretty well. Considering the lack of leadership and flip flops on the leaving. Agreed to what was agreeable. Unprecedented but as Cicero says if you want appreciation get a dog. Don't expect it from the media . Don't expect it from parents such as yourself who usually can't handle their 2 kids . What is with all the agression towards everyone you reply to? What makes you think the poster 'can't handle their two kids'? No need for the nastiness and aggression in every reply. :rolleyes: Bobtheman wrote: » It's totally irrelevant what the public thinks because they are largely a sheepish group. A lot done more to do ? Remember that. The persecution of umarried mother's was all the rage up to about 25 years ago. The public thought not having access to condoms was bang on up the 1990s. Now they can't even say a woman menstruates without getting tied up in knots. So when the public tells me I'm doing a good job ...I get very very worried. The media hate teachers . Some parents- those whom we told some home truths mostly. Best bet - don't listen to the media at all. Don't follow the crowd. Pied pipers I would say the Church had a large say in the persecution of unmarried mothers and the lack of access to contraception. emmaro wrote: » Every single decision taken to do with education during this pandemic has been decided by the media. It was the media who kept pushing the cancellation of the LC.....so it was cancelled. Now the media is pushing that parents need kids to go back to school fully (even if that means ignoring health advice).Yesterday's "plan" from McHugh was basically like "if we have to social distance your kid will hardly ever be in school...but if we ignore public health guidelines they'll be out of your hair fulltime!!". They want the public and media to get on board with schools being the only place where social distancing doesn't apply. No one cares about the safety of teachers anyway. It would be a lot more difficult to do more online learning or blended learning...but if that's the safest option it should be what happens. Unfortunately he's correct. What are the alternatives? Keep the two metre distance, have classes split into two or three depending on the size of the group. Lots of people have up to 30 students in core subjects. What happens then? Teach group A for one half of the week and group B for the other half? Only get half the course done over the year? Teach group A half the week and expect group B to follow along at home while your class is broadcast live on line, and reverse for the second half of the week? Teach one half the group live and then go home and spend your evening uploading all of that material for all those that weren't in school that day? All of these options are realistically what would happen if the 2m distance is kept. They were all debated here at length a few weeks ago and I don't remember anyone being in favour. It's all very well people posting on here going ... what about guidelines?... what about immunocompromised people? .... what about ... what about... what about.... but the reality is that schools and education will not function properly long term if social distancing is kept in place. We are fortunate in Ireland and generally in Europe (up to now) that we generally don't have endemic fatal diseases, something which is a norm in other countries. We don't live with malaria, dengue fever, MERS, SARS, ebola, plague, cholera, rabies, and many of the infectious diseases we can't contract here have vaccines or we can treat fairly effectively with medication. It's a new departure for this country that we will have to live with this virus for at least the medium term. It requires a completely new way of thinking about infectious disease and illness.
rainbowtrout wrote: » The virus is pretty much gone from the community. /quote] There's absolutely no way of knowing that without an extensive testing regime in place. Numbers are low but why wouldn't they be after three months lockdown. But that's a long way from saying it's gone away. .... But the idea that there can be a different safety regime in one workplace (a school) from another down the road (a shop or bank) is not tenable. Either all safety protocols are dropped everywhere (which will not happen) or we have a problem in schools.
TheValeyard wrote: » So a school with 1000 students can open. But not a football ground, concert, of social occasions with similar number. I think there is a bit of a disconnect here.
Mardy Bum wrote: » Leave should be granted for immunocompromised staff and any staff living with an immunocompromised person. If the DES can manage this it, it will be a start.
Bobtheman wrote: » If you want to sarcrifice your health that's your decision. Best of luck with that. I don't think cancelling the LC was for money reasons..in this country all you got to utter in a loud ( preferably female voice ) is " What about the children? Will anybody think of them?' and everyone panics. It would have been better if a decision on the leaving cert was delayed until late May. A final decision. There was no rush for it. About a hundred thousand people won't be back in work by January 2020. Most permanent job losses. But we spend countless front pages talking about the LC ? Give me a break.
Bobtheman wrote: » Shock horror. One boards poster with an axe to grind lifts his leg ?! Get me the smelling salts. We came out pretty well. Considering the lack of leadership and flip flops on the leaving. Agreed to what was agreeable. Unprecedented but as Cicero says if you want appreciation get a dog. Don't expect it from the media . Don't expect it from parents such as yourself who usually can't handle their 2 kids .
Bobtheman wrote: » It's totally irrelevant what the public thinks because they are largely a sheepish group. A lot done more to do ? Remember that. The persecution of umarried mother's was all the rage up to about 25 years ago. The public thought not having access to condoms was bang on up the 1990s. Now they can't even say a woman menstruates without getting tied up in knots. So when the public tells me I'm doing a good job ...I get very very worried. The media hate teachers . Some parents- those whom we told some home truths mostly. Best bet - don't listen to the media at all. Don't follow the crowd. Pied pipers
emmaro wrote: » Every single decision taken to do with education during this pandemic has been decided by the media. It was the media who kept pushing the cancellation of the LC.....so it was cancelled. Now the media is pushing that parents need kids to go back to school fully (even if that means ignoring health advice).Yesterday's "plan" from McHugh was basically like "if we have to social distance your kid will hardly ever be in school...but if we ignore public health guidelines they'll be out of your hair fulltime!!". They want the public and media to get on board with schools being the only place where social distancing doesn't apply. No one cares about the safety of teachers anyway. It would be a lot more difficult to do more online learning or blended learning...but if that's the safest option it should be what happens.
Bobtheman wrote: » You talking to me? It was a valid question.Yours. I'm just pointing out it's up to senior civil servants to figure this out I'm an English graduate. Hardly qualified. I am entitled to ask my employer to protect my health. Because I doubt my school will raise my kids if I die of covid. That being said I'm willing to be flexible and take some risk but not " ah sure we will be grand" approach.
teachinggal123 wrote: » We came out of this really badly. Mixed at best. “Pretty well” .... naaaaah. Step out of your bubble and smell the roses.
teachinggal123 wrote: » We came out of this really badly. Mixed at best. “Pretty well” .... naaaaah.
shesty wrote: » I am not attacking you, I am simply asking the question.Society isn't actually out to get teachers.
Snow Garden wrote: » The Covid crisis hasn't shown teachers in a good light. Some have gone the extra mile but many have moaned and exposed their sense of entitlement. McHugh comes across as a terrible minister. Hopefully the new one is somewhat capable.
rainbowtrout wrote: » I don't have a problem with it. Life has to go on. The virus might never have a vaccine. It's something we have to live with. Life has to go back to normal at some stage. The virus is pretty much gone from the community. If it's not in the community you won't be getting it in school. Read an article about primary schools/pre-schools in France last week who have gone back earlier than us and it was awfully sad to see kids sitting in the school yard in individual chalked out boxes. Might as well have been a prison. That's no way to live. It was always going to come to this. It's not possible to teach students on a part time basis and still get the course for the year done. All it does prove is that the Leaving Cert didn't need to be cancelled, that was clearly a money saving decision.
shesty wrote: » Tbh, my workplace is "construction" but the reality is that the lads have to go into people's homes to do their jobs.They might visit multiple houses in a day.So even though construction was given the go-ahead weeks ago, we haven't got a solution for that either.Schools are not actually uniquely being singled out as places where social distancing is being disregarded.They happen to be the most high-profile, I would guess.I would also point out to teachers that kids will be mixing and bringing everything home, so it is not just the teachers that are exposed.It is the children's families too.I have no doubt my SI will bring home every bug that passes her by come Sept, and pass it on to all of us too. I would be curious to know what teachers propose.Blended learning, so double-jobbing for yourselves??No school at all, and a continuation of online teaching?Because I see no way out of this to be honest.There is no visible solution that doesn't leave both teachers and students at a disadvantage.
Rosita wrote: » km79 wrote: » I do not see any mention whatsoever of the provision of PPE gear ? /quote] I this alone shows that it's not a plan but an aspirational opening move. A cynic might wonder if it's deliberately being done so that the unions will be seen to be objecting and that the inevitable alterations will be seen to be teachers over-reacting and messing up the grand plan. This is 100% part of the agenda . Teachers are always complaining etc etc Deflecting from the fact they are underfunding education for decades now and the chickens have well and truly come home to roost in already overcrowded classrooms
km79 wrote: » I do not see any mention whatsoever of the provision of PPE gear ? /quote] I this alone shows that it's not a plan but an aspirational opening move. A cynic might wonder if it's deliberately being done so that the unions will be seen to be objecting and that the inevitable alterations will be seen to be teachers over-reacting and messing up the grand plan.
rainbowtrout wrote: » The virus is pretty much gone from the community. /quote] There's absolutely no way of knowing that without an extensive testing regime in place. Numbers are low but why wouldn't they be after three months lockdown. But that's a long way from saying it's gone away. At the same time I do have some sympathy for the idea that we should go back to normal and let people look out for themselves. In fact but for the ICU bed problem I'd say the government would do the same. But the idea that there can be a different safety regime in one workplace (a school) from another down the road (a shop or bank) is not tenable. Either all safety protocols are dropped everywhere (which will not happen) or we have a problem in schools.
