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Leo says the Civil Service is 'very white'

Akesh

Imagine the shock and horror in Leinster House when it was discovered that a country, where over 91% of the population are white, has a civil service that is 'very white'. To correct this error, he would like to use targets for the civil service to hire more minorities.

These kinds of targets are illogical and in no way should a public servant be hired on the basis of their skin colour or race but this is what he wants to introduce.

Is this just another reactionary policy in reaction to the death of George Floyd or does it have merit? Obviously recruiters in the civil service are racists otherwise there would be no need for such a policy/target.

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Wibbs

Ninthlife wrote: »

Do you reckon the Nigerian president or PM is sitting in Lagos thinking, 'you know what I think the Nigerian civil service is too black'

Well you've hit the nail on the head there. "Diversity" only seems to apply to White people and nations. Your "progressives" see a White majority nation and culture and insist it needs "diversity". The right kind of course, IE more non Whites. A few thousand Italians/Spaniards/Germans won't cut it. East Asian folks don't really cut it so much either.

Now if one were to suggest after an hour walking around say Kampala that what this place needs is a load more White folks, there would be ructions, much gnashing of teeth and noises about colonialism and cultural appropriation and the like, but oul Whitey needs more dark faces to be "correct".

It's utter bollocks and as so called "multicultural" nations have shown causes all sorts of extra divisions and social problems, not least for the non native population and for generations with it. Show me any multicultural nation where social progress and social issues aren't drawn along racial lines. Good luck with that.

Ireland has until very recently been a largely monocultural country, certainly along "race" lines, yet even in that brief snapshot of time since the late 90's where that changed and not by much either, we're already seeing the seeds of the crap of every single other European nation that has run this idiotic social experiment has had to deal with and continues to deal with.

Modern multiculturalism doesn't work. Can multiculturalism work? Rarely, but it has to a large degree a few times in history, the Roman Empire, the Islamic empire, the Chinese empire to some degree. And that's the irony; it only seems to work in cultures that are more hardline and rigid, even "right wing" in outlook, and most of all cock sure of themselves as a culture. It most certainly doesn't work in cultures without a clear self confidence and a lack of self loathing.

jam_mac_jam

I really hope they don't start bringing in quotas. For sex or for race.
It's very unfair.

Ninthlife

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Public sector is far less diverse than the private sector.

I mean for a start the Irish language requirements for language teachers for example are ridiculous. No wonder no one can actually speak French or German here after years of "learning" it in school. Imagine having a native teacher teaching you their language.

The average brickie will meet more "foreigners" in a day on a building site than some public sector employees will meet in a year.

What difference does it make if a private sector worker meets more foreigners than a public sector worker?

kildare lad

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The elephant in the room is that entry to public sector jobs is still heavily influenced by family connections.
Immigrants and their children don't have these connections so they don't get the jobs.
Any sincere attempt to address this would tackle the nepotism problem.
Instead we'll just get some tokenistic affirmitive action to create a racially diverse public sector that still hires on nepotism.

I know a fella that works in the civil service , a family member got him in . He couldn't hold down a job in the private sector until till he got in there. It says a lot about the people running this country . I've also dealing with other government bodies , the mismanagement and lack of people who are unwilling to stick the head over the parapet when something is ridiculous . They just wanna ride their job out as easy as they can because it's nearly impossible to lose your job once you get in .

[Deleted User]

Public sector is far less diverse than the private sector.

I mean for a start the Irish language requirements for language teachers for example are ridiculous. No wonder no one can actually speak French or German here after years of "learning" it in school. Imagine having a native teacher teaching you their language.

The average brickie will meet more "foreigners" in a day on a building site than some public sector employees will meet in a year.

jam_mac_jam

Yurt! wrote: »

That's a bit of a myth. The civil service is open recruitment and merit based.

Semi-state quangos are a bit different and I'd say there's a sorts of hiring stunts pulled, but the civil service itself is meritocratic

I think it is. The application process is very extensive.

I was looking at it a few years ago and the application form itself was insanely detailed.

Yurt2

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The elephant in the room is that entry to public sector jobs is still heavily influenced by family connections.
Immigrants and their children don't have these connections so they don't get the jobs.
Any sincere attempt to address this would tackle the nepotism problem.
Instead we'll just get some tokenistic affirmitive action to create a racially diverse public sector that still hires on nepotism.

That's a bit of a myth. The civil service is open recruitment and merit based.

Semi-state quangos are a bit different and I'd say there's a sorts of hiring stunts pulled, but the civil service itself is meritocratic

y0ssar1an22

its only a matter of time before they try to bring in further quotas. there are already quotas based on your gender.

how much of a role does the media play in this? stoking the flames so to speak.

sad day for our country when the leader bows to some media pressure. man up leo (can i say that anymore or will the rabble come for me?) would you!

same reason the government of the ivory coast is 'very' black

anplaya27

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The elephant in the room is that entry to public sector jobs is still heavily influenced by family connections.
Immigrants and their children don't have these connections so they don't get the jobs.
Any sincere attempt to address this would tackle the nepotism problem.
Instead we'll just get some tokenistic affirmitive action to create a racially diverse public sector that still hires on nepotism.

How?

The opportunities in the civil service are open and available to everyone every year online no? Are you saying there someone hired to flag family members of current civil servants or something and out them forward for special treatment? How would that work?

Rockbeast2

CrankyHaus wrote: »

The elephant in the room is that entry to public sector jobs is still heavily influenced by family connections.
Immigrants and their children don't have these connections so they don't get the jobs.
Any sincere attempt to address this would tackle the nepotism problem.
Instead we'll just get some tokenistic affirmitive action to create a racially diverse public sector that still hires on nepotism.

It would still have its issues, but I would probably be okay with a 5 to 10 year period wherein no spouses, siblings, children, nephews or nieces, of a current employee were permitted to be hired in a civil service department. If it would thin out the "family connections" and mini-fiefdoms in certain areas, it would be a positive thing.

kildare lad

gibsmedat wrote: »

Varadkar,BLM,and the NGOs are doing a fantastic job at waking up the Irish working class to their nonsense.

The statue issue will also massively split the left.

The Far left are doing a great job at putting the Right in power all across the world . They're so out of touch with normal people on the ground all they're doing is alienating people like me with there nonsense politics and bending over backwards to appease people who contribute little to nothing to society . You can thank the Left for another 4 years of trump when he gets re elected this year .

CrankyHaus

Nermal wrote: »

The law is on their side, and has been for two decades:

"14.— Nothing in this Act shall be construed as prohibiting—

(b) preferential treatment or the taking of positive measures which are bona fide intended to—

(i) promote equality of opportunity for persons who are, in relation to other persons, disadvantaged or who have been or are likely to be unable to avail themselves of the same opportunities as those other persons"

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/8/section/14/enacted/en/html#sec14

Until this provision is repealed, there is no true equality.

I agree to an extent. But an Equality Act that did not have that provision may, for example, have stymied the hiring of Catholic police officers into the PSNI.

In certain circumstances positive discrimination is merited as a short term measure to address serious inequalities.

But a legal situation where Mary Mitchell O'Connor can create female-only professorships is a disgrace.

Nermal

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

That clown show is really pushing the boat out with this absolute nonsense, he has forgotten that the hipsters, soy boys and commies currently making absolute fools of themselves are a mob, not the majority, and nowhere near it. It will be the sword that the moron and his gaggle of idiots fall on.

The law is on their side, and has been for two decades:

"14.— Nothing in this Act shall be construed as prohibiting—

(b) preferential treatment or the taking of positive measures which are bona fide intended to—

(i) promote equality of opportunity for persons who are, in relation to other persons, disadvantaged or who have been or are likely to be unable to avail themselves of the same opportunities as those other persons"

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2000/act/8/section/14/enacted/en/html#sec14

Until this provision is repealed, there is no true equality.

CrankyHaus

The elephant in the room is that entry to public sector jobs is still heavily influenced by family connections.
Immigrants and their children don't have these connections so they don't get the jobs.
Any sincere attempt to address this would tackle the nepotism problem.
Instead we'll just get some tokenistic affirmitive action to create a racially diverse public sector that still hires on nepotism.

meeeeh

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

They stay in their own echo chamber and band together to report any opinions that's different to theirs s they can have a thread to themselves

I think some threads are bellow me to engage in them seriously. Basically I find there is too much stupidity posted so it would unfair to highlight only one post and too much work to highlight all nonsense.

titan18

Yurt! wrote: »

The major barrier to minorities teaching in Ireland is the Irish language requirement to be honest.

I had an American friend who wished to teach here but was put off by it. I tried to tell her a year's spadework learning and a Gaeltacht homestay would have probably got her over line, but it wasn't for her in the end.

She would have made a fine addition to any staff room but cest la vie

I'm not a fan of the language, and think at LC level, it should become optional, but I'd be completely against removing Irish from primary school. That would really be the final nail in the coffin for it. I think the majority of the country wouldn't wish it was removed from the primary school either tbh. I think it should be taught better, but complete removal really is a step too far.

gibsmedat

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

That clown show is really pushing the boat out with this absolute nonsense, he has forgotten that the hipsters, soy boys and commies currently making absolute fools of themselves are a mob, not the majority, and nowhere near it. It will be the sword that the moron and his gaggle of idiots fall on.

Varadkar,BLM,and the NGOs are doing a fantastic job at waking up the Irish working class to their nonsense.

The statue issue will also massively split the left.

TomTomTim

Jimmy Garlic wrote: »

That clown show is really pushing the boat out with this absolute nonsense, he has forgotten that the hipsters, soy boys and commies currently making absolute fools of themselves are a mob, not the majority, and nowhere near it. It will be the sword that the moron and his gaggle of idiots fall on.

This is it, he's truly a social media politician, who thinks social media represents everyone. If anything it makes him look like he's not very bright.

Jimmy Garlic

That clown show is really pushing the boat out with this absolute nonsense, he has forgotten that the hipsters, soy boys and commies currently making absolute fools of themselves are a mob, not the majority, and nowhere near it. It will be the sword that the moron and his gaggle of idiots fall on.

kildare lad

Nesta2018 wrote: »

When you look at Dr Ebun Joseph, you can see the effects of this kind of tokenistic mentality. Anyone who reads what she has written or who has listened to her will know that her PhD is a joke, as is her heading up a "Black Studies" department in UCD. This is the kind of thing that stokes racism and resentment. By contrast, look at this fine young woman from a Cameroonian background, who worked hard in school and got a teaching qualification. She did not need quota systems or special treatment and she points out herself that the opportunities are there, and encourages young people from minority backgrounds to just go for it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0605/1145786-diversity-in-education/

She's a race baiter, I remember she was calling the Garda racist for turning up when a load of black teenagers were running riot at an event in the red cow. She's typical of someone who emigrates to another country , gets educated on the back of the tax payers then turns around and complains about how racist the country is .

1800_Ladladlad

suicide_circus wrote: »

There is a notable absence in this thread of posters who are usually very vocal about the scourge of racism, calling out racism etc.

They stay in their own echo chamber and band together to report any opinions that's different to theirs s they can have a thread to themselves

Yurt2

The major barrier to minorities teaching in Ireland is the Irish language requirement to be honest.

I had an American friend who wished to teach here but was put off by it. I tried to tell her a year's spadework learning and a Gaeltacht homestay would have probably got her over line, but it wasn't for her in the end.

She would have made a fine addition to any staff room but cest la vie

is_that_so

Nesta2018 wrote: »

Yes, it's the journalist's take on it that they are disadvantaged, and the people involved in the race relations industry, rather than the actual teachers from migrant backgrounds interviewed.

It's Emma O'Kelly, she can be somewhat dramatic about things.

is_that_so

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

Even this article, though, implies that there are many black graduates of teaching courses who are not being employed because of "conservatism". If this is the case then that's a disgrace but I don't believe it is. Where is the evidence of all these black teaching graduates that are unemployed because of discriminatory hiring practices?

Inputs lead to outputs. It is great to see this young woman doing well and setting a great example. Hopefully many more will follow on from her.

Given that many immigrants have moved here over the last 20 years and their kids would only now be reaching adulthood how could there be? The biggest issue at present is the male teacher problem.

Nesta2018

Yes, it's the journalist's take on it that they are disadvantaged, and the people involved in the race relations industry, rather than the actual teachers from migrant backgrounds interviewed.

ChelseaRentBoy

suicide_circus wrote: »

There is a notable absence in this thread of posters who are usually very vocal about the scourge of racism, calling out racism etc.

It's okay to be racist towards white Irish people it seems.

Rodin

Rockbeast2 wrote: »

Even this article, though, implies that there are many black graduates of teaching courses who are not being employed because of "conservatism". If this is the case then that's a disgrace but I don't believe it is. Where is the evidence of all these black teaching graduates that are unemployed because of discriminatory hiring practices?

Inputs lead to outputs. It is great to see this young woman doing well and setting a great example. Hopefully many more will follow on from her.

Unfortunately there are mistakes in the Irish spelling on the white board. Doesn't look good.

Rodin

thomas 123 wrote: »

You may not already know this but in a lot of multinationals in Ireland they already have inclusion policies in hiring, ie a candidate from a “minority” would be given preference over a candidate from the “majority”.

That's an EXclusion policy in my book.

About time a court case was taken for discrimination.

Rockbeast2

Nesta2018 wrote: »

When you look at Dr Ebun Joseph, you can see the effects of this kind of tokenistic mentality. Anyone who reads what she has written or who has listened to her will know that her PhD is a joke, as is her heading up a "Black Studies" department in UCD. This is the kind of thing that stokes racism and resentment. By contrast, look at this fine young woman from a Cameroonian background, who worked hard in school and got a teaching qualification. She did not need quota systems or special treatment and she points out herself that the opportunities are there, and encourages young people from minority backgrounds to just go for it.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0605/1145786-diversity-in-education/

Even this article, though, implies that there are many black graduates of teaching courses who are not being employed because of "conservatism". If this is the case then that's a disgrace but I don't believe it is. Where is the evidence of all these black teaching graduates that are unemployed because of discriminatory hiring practices?

Inputs lead to outputs. It is great to see this young woman doing well and setting a great example. Hopefully many more will follow on from her.

Yurt2

TheCitizen wrote: »

You’re not wrong there, it speaks for itself. Pathetic, inaccurate, racist bile.

Another measured contribution from yourself.

Of course you'll now tell us you and your political fellow travellers will allow an honest and dispassionate discussion about what type of immigration is appropriate and desirable for Ireland.

All the while lecturing everyone where the goalposts should be.