tobefrank321 wrote: » Lockdown is just not sustainable. And as soon as you lift lockdown its only a matter of time before numbers rise.
tobefrank321 wrote: » The Irish excess numbers haven't been officially counted yet. An unofficial count using rip.ie showed an excess of about 1000 deaths for the period. And that map shows no excess for Spain or Italy which stretches credibility.
PhoenixParker wrote: » Sweden is showing the opposite is true. Right now it seems a country can have a flat rate of infection without a lockdown.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » They don't have a "flat rate of infection", they are not testing in the community - hence why it's around 500 new cases officially every single day. Ireland has tested nearly 100,000 more people than Sweden despite having half the population.
PhoenixParker wrote: » Their rate of ICU admission is roughly constant.
Breezin wrote: » Ireland ranks second in the world for care home deaths, at 62%. Sweden 49%. It would be interesting to see the response of those here who have been claiming Sweden was engaged in a cull of old folk.
Charles Babbage wrote: » I imagine they would respond that Ireland is counting all deaths that might be Covid19 while Sweden is not.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » Ireland has tested nearly 100,000 more people than Sweden despite having half the population.
paddar wrote: » ''The report warns that international comparisons are difficult, due to different approaches to recording deaths, as well as differences in testing and policies'' Also from today in Sweden, (pass it through google translate if you are interested).https://omni.se/privata-aldreboenden-vill-inte-svara-om-dodssiffror/a/OpvJ81 ''Private elderly homes will not comment on death figures. Several of the large care companies in Sweden will not answer on how many people have died of covid-19 at their elderly homes'' Also in the same article ''4,220 people have died in covid-19 in Sweden, according to the latest figures from the Public Health Authority. 49% of them lived in elderly homes and 25% had home care'' So if you total the amount of deaths in care (both residential and at home) its 74%
biko wrote: » https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0527/1143036-covid-deaths-ireland So, the numbers as percentage of total deaths, how many old folks have died? Canada 82% Ireland 62% France 51% Sweden 49% Austria 41% US 38-52% Portugal 40% Hungary 24% Not sure what to make of this. Did we expect other countries to have less care home deaths than Sweden, who have even apologised for them? In Canada it's so bad they have military working in the care homes. So what does it tell us, other than just under 2000 Swedish deaths out of 4000 were in care homes?
Breezin wrote: » The figures vary, and the bases for comparison are shaky. That is one of the constant themes in proper assessment of the Swedish strategy. It won't be assessed properly from daily statistics in the present, or in the immediate future. Given the uncertainty, it might have been wiser to refrain from claiming, as some here have, that the Swedes were culling their elderly (and that it was being defended here too). Presumably this is the end of the culling trope, unless we want to widen it.
JimmyVik wrote: » No. Their death rate figures are shocking. Its a cull of their elderly and the sick. Leaders like thiers should be help accountable for these deaths. See it for what it is. They could easily have done what every other country did to protect their old and their sick, but they didnt. They ran an experiment where the cost was lives. They knew this was a likely result, yet they went ahead with it. Nobody gives a fcuk about it once they know the elderly are the ones to die. Sure you can see that all over boards here too.
tobefrank321 wrote: » Source? Which deaths are they not counting? And can you be 100% certain we are counting all deaths in every possible scenario? There are major discrepancies in how numbers are counted in every country and also gaps. The UK numbers are all over the place, over 40,000 one week, at 35,000 the following week. Spain removed 2000 deaths from their count.
Tea drinker wrote: » The evidence is their lack of testing. It's not definitive but if it is a third of our testing it needs to be examined. On the face of it they are covering up the true numbers. Plus as a country they took a disgusting approach to kill elderly people.
tobefrank321 wrote: » I think you need to look at the approaches of many countries to old people including our own. Sending possibly covid infected patients from hospitals to nursing homes to free up space in hospitals. Virtually no treatment of care home infected in ICUs. No help, guidance or PPE for care homes when requested. And only an acknowledgement when the head of nursing homes asks for help. Also sounds like a cull to me, and that the elderly aren't valued. But hey, lets point fingers at Sweden, I mean we've done so well ourselves when it came to the elderly.
Breezin wrote: » The figures vary, and the bases for comparison are shaky. That is one of the constant themes in proper assessment of the Swedish strategy. It won't be assessed properly from daily statistics in the present, or in the immediate future.
tobefrank321 wrote: » You are talking absolute BS. Do you think Italy, Spain, UK, Belgium, Ireland, US or Netherlands were engaged in a cull of their elderly or sick? Ireland for example never banned flights and still don't enforce quarantine, even though we know old people somewhere will die because of this relaxed attitudes to borders. In the case of Italy and Cheltenham, it unquestionably cost lives. The Swedes have taken the view that in the long term, a lockdown may not make a difference. You seem to think covid19 will be over in a matter of weeks? Unfortunately because of its infectious nature and international travel, its here to stay until a widely available vaccine, which will be at least 2 years. We will soon see what happens as Southern Europe opens up. I doubt you will accuse Spain or Italy of engaging in a cull? Or Germany, who want to travel all over Europe.
