Is it just me or have SF vanished?

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:3Kdvi9pOC4gJ:https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/sinn-f%25C3%25A9in-under-fire-over-welfare-cuts-move-1.2435441+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ie

TheCitizen wrote: »

So many lies in so little words. SF could not have stopped Brexit whther they took the seats in Westminster or not, don't be ridiculous. What Social Welfare powers did SF give away to Westminster, what are you talking about?

Did you watch the news on Brexit at all and how the DUP held the balance of power in WM because of SF's absence.

It was in the post you claimed was rambling. Obviously SF hub is busy you can only read the short ones?

Stormont fell into disrepute over the scandals involving the DUP. It's back up and running again but you'll find ways to attack SF for when it's up and running or when it isn't, nothing new there.

Again not completely true. SF wanted to bring in an Irish act just on wind up for the DUP . Which is ironic considering. The NI leader of SF has no Irish! As do many in SF it is lipservice for many of them.

Homeless people in Northern Ireland are being attacked by Republicans? What are you blathering about now?

Sorry you think about it. It obviously went over your head like a bullet.
Republicanism is far more of threat to a person's safety than it is for those who have to live in hotels. IMO.

So the younger voters who voted SF are all Celtic top wearing kids from council estates now are they?

The majority are and they have no problem pretending a British club (across the water) whose taxes go to Queen is Irish. Celtic play up on this to make the £££££

Should they not commemorate Republicanism from the past? Or is it only SF that shouldn't do it?

SF love pantomime they play it up and are first in the queue if any mention of recent republicanism is mentioned - it is careful choice of words. Deflect deny and so on.

Sure even when Michelle O'Neill and Gerry Kelly appeared in front of the cameras to gently chide Saoradh for trying to kill them as it was the 'no strategy' was a typical odd republican type of wording. 'Irish Republican Project'

"Malnourished, under educated, likely to be from single parent families", this is what makes up the 25% vote share that SF got in the last election according to this character.

Not all but the core of the 'new' SF vote. People who would not normally vote.

"Bank robbers, murderers etc.", this is 2020, the GFA has been in existence for over 20 years. Are you going to keep talking about things that happened decades ago? Seems like you are and maybe it resonates with some older people who vote FG or FF and would never vote SF anyway.

It doesn't appear to resonate with younger voters and in your frustration you label them "malnourished, under educated etc etc." Make sure you keep telling them exactly what you really thing of them....go ahead....you tell 'em.....

Your anger is getting the better of you and you're showing your true colours now alright. How dare these young voters and other voters disagree with the FFG groupthink and make their minds up on who they want to vote for themselves.

All of the articles I posted in recent posts are LESS than 20 years. I am not angry there is not a baseball bat nor stun gun in my vicinity.

As I said younger voters are easier to cod. It is an old populist political trick.
The younger the better. They have not heard and seen it all before.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Yes and you'd prefer them to not appeal to female voters or middle ground voters, of course you would.

If cleaned up and behaved like ordinary decent human beings, instead of covering up murder and so on I would have zero problem with them. Get rid of the flag waving myopic yahoos and so on.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I'm in my late 50's and Soloheadbeag was relayed to me as a factual account of what happened when I was at school.

Did you have a particularly Republican minded teacher?
One of mine was a FG county councillor, until he died he was a fabled local historian.

The point: Sure there were bad teachers who couldn't stay neutral or impartial, but I don't think there was any particular 'republican' slant to the curriculum.

Would welcome seeing examples of it, if you have any.

No sample unfortunately he was actually a good teacher - not overtly Republican. But on reflection I felt the negative aspect of Republicanism was glossed over. Covered the Land Act's 1870's until 1960's Ireland.
Plus he wrote the textbook!

TheCitizen

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not having a go at MLM, I have always been very complimentary about her, the rabble she has to drag around with her is the problem. As you seen her having to deal with the "Up da Ra" comment on LLS you could see she had to do what SF told her....not what she wanted to say herself

Such mealy mouthed nonsense.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

SF haven't departed from the PIRA. Don't make me laugh....

The PIRA haven't been in action for over 20 years. Time passes. They have departed from that era, of course they have.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Who I vote for? guess :p:p

That sort of silliness doesn't surprise me given your other contributions.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yeah, but it is a false door, a facade. The real power seems to be in the unelected members of SF behind the facade. Otherwise the SF swamp would be drained much quicker.

Are you suggesting a political party might be saying things just to get elected? Unheard of, but you could be right

As it is with every party. I wouldn't call it a swamp. The times change as should a party to reflect that. SF still have 'RA heads and that's to be expected. That's part of who they are. Everybody is aware of that.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If Mary Lou was offered the top job at Labour she would be at Labour now

She jumped from FF because she felt she wouldnt get to top quick enough, looked around and seen which party was the easiest to get to the top. Slim picking in SF to replace Gerry....

Fair play to her by the way,

I don't know what you are trying to say. Why do you think MLMD would join Labour?
Seems to me her politics changed and so she acted on that. Seems like a normal action to me.
You do realise the electorate don't vote for the same parties in the same numbers in every election? This suggests peoples interests and concerns change and they adapt their politics to suit.
You could be right of course but that's a very cynical attitude. Back in the old days were people only joining FF/FG for the chance at getting into government? I'd like to think not but based on their records I can't see why anyone would sign up to them.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I am not having a go at MLM, I have always been very complimentary about her, the rabble she has to drag around with her is the problem. As you seen her having to deal with the "Up da Ra" comment on LLS you could see she had to do what SF told her....not what she wanted to say herself

SF haven't departed from the PIRA. Don't make me laugh....

Who I vote for? guess :p:p

More blind guff trying to pass as comment.
At least give over pretending you don't want every discussion to lead to the IRA.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Such mealy mouthed nonsense.

The PIRA haven't been in action for over 20 years. Time passes. They have departed from that era, of course they have.

That sort of silliness doesn't surprise me given your other contributions.

You'll find folk like to let a discussion drop when it's not going as they'd like.

TheCitizen wrote: »

Such mealy mouthed nonsense.

The PIRA haven't been in action for over 20 years. Time passes. They have departed from that era, of course they have.

That sort of silliness doesn't surprise me given your other contributions.

In 2007 they kicked a lad in Monaghan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Paul_Quinn

According to the police in North and Garda they still existL https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ira-army-council-retains-oversight-of-sinn-fein-say-police-38671774.html

So what is this abotu 20 years?

In regards to who I voted for, well so far I have had some many accusations thrown at me I am not sure anymore. Including yourself accusing me of FG. The rest of the crowd here threw similar accusations and plenty of post on here about who I voted for. Just find them :eek:

Not sure what the big deal is, we are discussing SF on a SF thread....

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

No sample unfortunately he was actually a good teacher - not overtly Republican. But on reflection I felt the negative aspect of Republicanism was glossed over. Covered the Land Act's 1870's until 1960's Ireland.
Plus he wrote the textbook!

So a subjective opinion.
The curriculum was Irish orientated but I object to notions of brain washing.
Our history is transparent for all to see if they want to.
Problem is, as these threads show there is no consensus

Bowie wrote: »

More blind guff trying to pass as comment.
At least give over pretending you don't want every discussion to lead to the IRA.

Nobody asked you to comment....you more than welcome to ignore

FrancieBrady wrote: »

So a subjective opinion.
The curriculum was Irish orientated but I object to notions of brain washing.
Our history is transparent for all to see if they want to.
Problem is, as these threads show there is no consensus

Ah there definitely was brainwashing particularly in the two/
three decades after Irish independence. Talk of an 'Irish race' the Tailteann games and so on.
That was the start of it.

In fact I feel like a bit of an eejit that I was blind to it, thinking it is all great against evil British oppressors. When in reality it was far from one sided. Or as simple as them v us.

Plus nothing was 'won' at best you could call it a draw.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Nobody asked you to comment....you more than welcome to ignore

Snap.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

In 2007 they kicked a lad in Monaghan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_Paul_Quinn

According to the police in North and Garda they still existL https://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/ira-army-council-retains-oversight-of-sinn-fein-say-police-38671774.html

So what is this abotu 20 years?

In regards to who I voted for, well so far I have had some many accusations thrown at me I am not sure anymore. Including yourself accusing me of FG. The rest of the crowd here threw similar accusations and plenty of post on here about who I voted for. Just find them :eek:

Not sure what the big deal is, we are discussing SF on a SF thread....

Do you know who in SF kicked him to death? We are seemingly talking about SF here.
FYI: The thread is about SF currently and their presence or lack there of.
You could post about SF and their policies and any talks re the next government. Just a suggestion. Seeing as you allegedly like MLMD.

Bowie wrote: »

Do you know who in SF kicked him to death? We are seemingly talking about SF here.
FYI: The thread is about SF currently and their presence or lack there of.
You could post about SF and their policies and any talks re the next government. Just a suggestion. Seeing as you allegedly like MLMD.

I will refer back to the question yesterday when I asked you about what SF had done in the last 30 years in the South, specifically the South to get away from IRA

You mentioned the IRA, not me. So can't throw them out now when it doesn't suit.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Ah there definitely was brainwashing particularly in the two/
three decades after Irish independence. Talk of an 'Irish race' the Tailteann games and so on.
That was the start of it.

In fact I feel like a bit of an eejit that I was blind to it, thinking it is all great against evil British oppressors. When in reality it was far from one sided. Or as simple as them v us.

Plus nothing was 'won' at best you could call it a draw.

Well, I would say that objectively, what the British Empire engaged in was in many ways oppression. There is absolutely no contesting that cold hard fact of history.

Oppression is always the prime sin...nobody asked them here to do that.

And yes, there are always two sides to a story. There are also very few nations (I can't think of one) who will give the oppressor much truck or sympathy as it matures in independence.

As we have seen, our political system hasn't matured, it still breaks along fault lines caused by that oppressive force...patitionism, republicanism, unionism, loyalism, civil war sides etc etc.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I will refer back to the question yesterday when I asked you about what SF had done in the last 30 years in the South, specifically the South to get away from IRA

You mentioned the IRA, not me. So can't throw them out now when it doesn't suit.

Not true.
You spoke on MLMD on the LLS and 'up the 'RA'. I answered your question and mentioned the IRA connection.
Then Gormdubh came in with his drunk history podcast and you chimed in on that.
I have responded to your last post were you state same, which you either ignored or missed, you have since lost all interest, happy to discuss the IRA, which is fine but don't try pass it as anything else but an out of context off thread 'RA rant.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Well, I would say that objectively, what the British Empire engaged in was in many ways oppression. There is absolutely no contesting that cold hard fact of history.

Oppression is always the prime sin...nobody asked them here to do that.

And yes, there are always two sides to a story. There are also very few nations (I can't think of one) who will give the oppressor much truck or sympathy as it matures in independence.

As we have seen, our political system hasn't matured, it still breaks along fault lines caused by that oppressive force...patitionism, republicanism, unionism, loyalism, civil war sides etc etc.

True but that is only looking at things to the prism of recent history. If you go back to Brian Boru's time surely a lot of Kings in Ireland would have viewed him as the opressor taking over Leinster and the High King of Meath. And even going into Connacht. Yet these days he is viewed as a real Gael who had to fight against the Irish traitors and the Vikings.
It all depends on how it is spun and it normally spun these days as Irish v the invaders.
Personally I think it is a bit presumptuous that there should be a United Ireland based purely on the fact that it geographically one Island.
The British settlers did thier plantation work well and 400 years later there are still descendants who feel British.

All the 'Brits out' stuff seems more than silly considering they are settled there for 400 years now. Plus why stop with asking for the Brits out? Surely there should be some suspicion attached to those with Norman names on the island of Ireland? Or Wynne and Walsh they are Welsh names. Gould is an Anglo-Saxon/Viking name. Mitchell has Norman French origins.

There is a Gould, Wynne and Mitchell in SF for instance - Saxons, Welsh and Norman French out?

Bowie wrote: »

Not true.
You spoke on MLMD on the LLS and 'up the 'RA'. I answered your question and mentioned the IRA connection.
Then Gormdubh came in with his drunk history podcast and you chimed in on that.
I have responded to your last post were you state same, which you either ignored or missed, you have since lost all interest, happy to discuss the IRA, which is fine but don't try pass it as anything else but an out of context off thread 'RA rant.

If you say so, fact is I asked about what they have done in 30 years and your post mentioned IRA....can’t complain now when people bring IRA into conversation....you do it yourself

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

True but that is only looking at things to the prism of recent history. If you go back to Brian Boru's time surely a lot of Kings in Ireland would have viewed him as the opressor taking over Leinster and the High King of Meath. And even going into Connacht. Yet these days he is viewed as a real Gael who had to fight against the Irish traitors and the Vikings.
It all depends on how it is spun and it normally spun these days as Irish v the invaders.
Personally I think it is a bit presumptuous that there should be a United Ireland based purely on the fact that it geographically one Island.
The British settlers did thier plantation work well and 400 years later there are still descendants who feel British.

All the 'Brits out' stuff seems more than silly considering they are settled there for 400 years now. Plus why stop with asking for the Brits out? Surely there should be some suspicion attached to those with Norman names on the island of Ireland? Or Wynne and Walsh they are Welsh names. Gould is an Anglo-Saxon/Viking name. Mitchell has Norman French origins.

There is a Gould, Wynne and Mitchell in SF for instance - Saxons, Welsh and Norman French out?

'BRITS OUT' never referred to anything but the British State and Army.

Sorry, I cannot take anyone seriously who portrays that slogan as anything else.
And please, don't start pointing at individual incidences of ignoramuses and bigots.
It was never, to my knowledge of history, a hatred or dislike of British people or a xenophobic comment..

Shefwedfan wrote: »

If you say so, fact is I asked about what they have done in 30 years and your post mentioned IRA....can’t complain now when people bring IRA into conversation....you do it yourself

The catchy tune gets stuck in fairness oh ah etc.
I notice a lot of posters of the SF leaning use FFG. Is that really to save time typing?
Or is it because they like to pretend the parties is the same and manufacture a against 'them' a them v us?
Because I would find SF/IRA a pain in the hole to keep typing.
I mean is SF really a change? they seem to have a lot old rehashed rhetoric from FF 1930's manifestos to me.

?width=229&version=1468132

FrancieBrady wrote: »

'BRITS OUT' never referred to anything but the British State and Army.

Sorry, I cannot take anyone seriously who portrays that slogan as anything else.
And please, don't start pointing at individual incidences of ignoramuses and bigots.
It was never, to my knowledge of history, a hatred or dislike of British people or a xenophobic comment..

Not for a lot of SF people it isn't and that is the truth of it. When they say 'Brits Out' they don't just mean the British State or the army. They mean the Prods. As happened in Cork in the ROI.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Not for a lot of SF people it isn't and that is the truth of it. When they say 'Brits Out' they don't just mean the British State or the army. They mean the Prods. As happened in Cork in the ROI.

And there you have the sweeping generalisation.

And also the quick retreat to isolated incidents.

Well demonstrated, not a leg to stand on in that debate. I would imagine it is multiples of decades since anyone gave a damn if you were a 'prod' or anything else tbh, in Cork and elsewhere.

Deleted User wrote: »

Name 1 sinn fein person who it means this for??

Seems to me your pedelling nonsense tbh....quite how you think brian boru is relevant to political discussion is beyond me,

They are not going to say it out loud are they that is the game. But many in the areas SF did well in do not like 'other'.

See Clondalkin (Angus O'Snodnaigh's haunt where he topped the poll)

https://www.newstalk.com/the-pat-kenny-show/i-want-to-know-why-are-you-racist-family-leaves-dublin-home-following-racist-attacks-647487

Why did I mention Brian Boru? Because he is held up as one of the first true Irish Gaels - by the Republican 'Irish race' myth.

Yet Boru also oppressed his fellow 'Irishmen' other Kings of Ireland and overthrew the previous High King. But because it is so long ago it can be spun to fit into the republican narrative. The High King of Ireland the true Gael.

You only have to look at Reada Cronin's comments. There is clearly a them and us in some of those in SF.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0219/1116302-cronin-comments/R

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

They are not going to say it out loud are they that is the game. But many in the areas SF did well in do not like 'other'.

See Clondalkin (Angus O'Snodnaigh's haunt where he topped the poll)

https://www.newstalk.com/the-pat-kenny-show/i-want-to-know-why-are-you-racist-family-leaves-dublin-home-following-racist-attacks-647487

Why did I mention Brian Boru? Because he is held up as one of the first true Irish Gaels - by the Republican 'Irish race' myth.

Yet Boru also oppressed his fellow 'Irishmen' other Kings of Ireland and overthrew the previous High King. But because it is so long ago it can be spun to fit into the republican narrative. The High King of Ireland the true Gael.

You only have to look at Reada Cronin's comments. There is clearly a them and us in some of those in SF.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2020/0219/1116302-cronin-comments/R

Bizarre.

Are Sinn Fein responsible for ALL racist attacks now or just this one in Clondalkin?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

And there you have the sweeping generalisation.

And also the quick retreat to isolated incidents.

Well demonstrated, not a leg to stand on in that debate. I would imagine it is multiples of decades since anyone gave a damn if you were a 'prod' or anything else tbh, in Cork and elsewhere.

Oh yeah SF is a bastion of professionalism in the political area.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-councillor-apologises-for-stay-the-f-at-home-email-to-constituent-995190.html

https://news.sky.com/story/paddy-holohan-ex-mma-fighter-suspended-as-sinn-fein-councillor-over-underage-girl-remarks-11911168

It do not attract yahoo's at all!

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Oh yeah SF is a bastion of professionalism in the political area.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/sinn-fein-councillor-apologises-for-stay-the-f-at-home-email-to-constituent-995190.html

https://news.sky.com/story/paddy-holohan-ex-mma-fighter-suspended-as-sinn-fein-councillor-over-underage-girl-remarks-11911168

It do not attract yahoo's at all!

As I tell another poster here, you can play the 'wacky, strange, corrupt, violent Councillor' game with almost every party on the island.

They all have them...we have two FG ones here in the one constituency. Came to national prominence for corruption and violent behavior.

Does it mean, for a second that FG is all like that, or that they endorse that behaviour?
No, it doesn't for a second.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Bizarre.

Are Sinn Fein responsible for ALL racist attacks now or just this one in Clondalkin?

That is thier voter base who they play up to. Remember AOS referred to Shatter as Goebbels?

Then we recently had the O'Riada comments. Also Paddy Hoolahan's comments which which embarrassed SF.

There is definitely a thread there.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/29652064_Why_is_there_no_Radical_Right_Party_in_Ireland

FrancieBrady wrote: »

As I tell another poster here, you can play the 'wacky, strange, corrupt, violent Councillor' game with almost every party on the island.

They all have them...we have two FG ones here in the one constituency. Came to national prominence for corruption and violent behavior.

Does it mean, for a second that FG is all like that, or that they endorse that behaviour?
No, it doesn't for a second.

SF seem to attract them like moths. And last time I checked AOS and Reada Cronin were TD's. As is Cullinane and Dessie Ellis. How many 'loose cannons' does SF have out of thier 37 TD's?

This is exactly what I mean. How could a sensible voter - vote for these yahoo's?
There is a reason SF target border areas and working class areas in the republic. They'd be the only ones who would vote for them.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

That is thier voter base who they play up to. Remember AOS referred to Shatter as Goebbels?

Then we recently had the O'Riada comments. Also Paddy Hoolahan's comments which which embarrassed SF.

There is definitely a thread there.

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/29652064_Why_is_there_no_Radical_Right_Party_in_Ireland

You can do this with all parties. I couldn't be arsed going looking for examples of TD's, Councillors and members of other parties saying the wrong thing. But they most definitely are there.