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Child Item

Deferred State Exams 2020 [SEE MOD NOTE POST #1]

political analyst

I'm aware that the new LC timetable will be published this June - public health permitting.

Regarding the usual schedule, why doesn't the State Exams Commission have the exams of both papers each in English, Irish and Maths in the Leaving and Junior Cert exams take place on the first 3 days of the exam period so that students will have the exams in the main subjects over with by the end of Day 3?

After all, the sooner the exams are over and done with, the better - right?!

MOD NOTE I'm setting up this thread as the one stop shop for all discusion about the state exams, preparing for these exams and the format this may take. Discussion can also take place about Mat leave contracts and factual information regarding these.
There will be a warning for anyone who:
a) moans about teachers holidays
b) moans about teachers pay
c) moans for the sake of moaning
D) this is NOT a discussion about school closures, that thread ran its course and this is not a replacement.
Usual forum rules also apply.

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Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

Sounds like subject departments will decide on the rankings
We all should have just switched off at Easter

This is a disgrace on so many levels if true.

km79

I am dreading seeing the finer points of this
I really really hope they have been working on this for the last month and it is not ANOTHER hastily thrown together poorly thought out MESS like the last proposal
I think we can all agree that’s exactly what it was now
It didn’t even last a month and caused so much unnecessary stress
I think we can assume the practicals will all get 100% now too ?
Or will they just leave them out of all predicted results ......

Mardy Bum

km79 wrote: »

I am dreading seeing the finer points of this
I really really hope they have been working on this for the last month and it is not ANOTHER hastily thrown together poorly thought out MESS like the last proposal
I think we can all agree that’s exactly what it was now
It didn’t even last a month and caused so much unnecessary stress
I think we can assume the practicals will all get 100% now too ?
Or will they just leave them out of all predicted results ......

There was no work on the LC in the department for two weeks because of the JC.

touts

It's a pity that the children won't get to meet their teachers again. Wondering what we should give my son's teachers as gifts for all their hard work over the years. Maybe an iPhone each. Or a gift voucher for weekends in the Shelburne? Maybe both to the Maths teacher. He wasn't very good at maths. She had to work so hard to help him. Definitely an iPhone and a weekend in the Shelburne. Yes. That would only be fair for all her "hard work".

Ok that's an extreme example but would you be very surprised to see a fair few 600 points awarded in rich fee paying schools this year.

History Queen

Ciano35 wrote: »

I never really thought about that, I had a lovely 6th year group and it’ll be awful not being able to say a proper goodbye to them

Have to say I'd like to be able to meet mine too. God I hope this all works out for them. I'm still holding on to the faint hope (denial really) that the Irish Times will be proven wrong.

If correct what a horrendous way for students, parents and teachers to find out. The leaks out of this government are unbelievable.

Wonder who predicts grades for students with new teachers due to sick leave/mid year retirements/maternity leave etc. What happems students who switched schools recently? Or to school refusers who had planned on coming in to sit exams? Or the other myriad of "non standard" cases?

I sincerely hope it works out well in the vast majority of cases.

km79

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/education/leaving-cert-2020-students-to-be-assessed-using-predictive-grades-39189520.html

skippy1977

km79 wrote: »

I am dreading seeing the finer points of this
I really really hope they have been working on this for the last month and it is not ANOTHER hastily thrown together poorly thought out MESS like the last proposal
I think we can all agree that’s exactly what it was now
It didn’t even last a month and caused so much unnecessary stress
I think we can assume the practicals will all get 100% now too ?
Or will they just leave them out of all predicted results ......

There are so many finer points I would imagine that would be overlooked. I just scanned through the results of my 6th Year Ordinary Maths class to get an idea of how they might be ranked, if it came to that.
The last month in school generally involves a process, where the students at the bottom of that ranking and I decide whether they will chance the ordinary level paper or might be better sitting the foundation level paper so as to avoid anyone failing the exam. I have a pretty weak class where this year I would have probably recommended that out of 22, 3 or 4 do that.
What happens those students this year. I would imagine they would be reluctant to drop (will there even be a mechanism for this) and so whoever I have last on the ranking, according to a bell curve, would fail the exam? Or if those students can be convinced to drop, as they are at the bottom, does the next last person fail....though they would have been fine!!
Similar would apply to dropping from Higher to Ordinary...

...just thinking aloud here!

bren2001

km79 wrote: »

I am dreading seeing the finer points of this
I really really hope they have been working on this for the last month and it is not ANOTHER hastily thrown together poorly thought out MESS like the last proposal
I think we can all agree that’s exactly what it was now
It didn’t even last a month and caused so much unnecessary stress
I think we can assume the practicals will all get 100% now too ?
Or will they just leave them out of all predicted results ......

You'd presume predicted results wouldn't take the orals or practicals into account? You predict the result and that's that.

I agree if it's a hastily thrown together idea, then it's a sh*tshow. We disagree that it's currently a mess (but there's no need to resurrect that).

I assume students will start College on time? Makes my life much easier!

Shn99

Student here: Gutted that I wont be able to say a proper goodbye to my teachers and fellow peers, but relieved this is all coming to an end. Class of 2020 graduating via Zoom it is.....

Comer1

bren2001 wrote: »

You'd presume predicted results wouldn't take the orals or practicals into account? You predict the result and that's that.

I agree if it's a hastily thrown together idea, then it's a sh*tshow. We disagree that it's currently a mess (but there's no need to resurrect that).

I assume students will start College on time? Makes my life much easier!

We should only be asked to give predicted grades for the exam. Any project work already submitted, such as DCG, should still be marked as normal.

km79

https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2020/0507/1136931-teacher-unions-meeting/

History Queen

Shn99 wrote: »

Student here: Gutted that I wont be able to say a proper goodbye to my teachers and fellow peers, but relieved this is all coming to an end. Class of 2020 graduating via Zoom it is.....

The very best of luck to you. Such a pity to end your second level journey so abruptly. I hope your future endeavors work out for you.

shesty

touts wrote: »

It's a pity that the children won't get to meet their teachers again. Wondering what we should give my son's teachers as gifts for all their hard work over the years. Maybe an iPhone each. Or a gift voucher for weekends in the Shelburne? Maybe both to the Maths teacher. He wasn't very good at maths. She had to work so hard to help him. Definitely an iPhone and a weekend in the Shelburne. Yes. That would only be fair for all her "hard work".

Ok that's an extreme example but would you be very surprised to see a fair few 600 points awarded in rich fee paying schools this year.

To be honest, they can award them alright, but the drop out rates from college courses next year will be one to watch

They have to actually be able to manage to complete a college course, not just get in to it.

Treppen

km79 wrote: »

Nice to be getting all our info from the media as usual

AKA the government press office

Shn99

History Queen wrote: »

The very best of luck to you. Such a pity to end your second level journey so abruptly. I hope your future endeavors work out for you.

Thank you, Hope all goes well for all teachers and the DES provide ye with all the resources ye need going forward with this. Thanks for all your hard work.

km79

Treppen wrote: »

AKA the government press office

In fairness the union officials were probably sworn to secrecy which is completely understandable
But pointless when Emma o kelly is clearly reading from the memo or a version of it

Still think unions could have updated members that they were having emergency meeting last night etc

bren2001

Shn99 wrote: »

Student here: Gutted that I wont be able to say a proper goodbye to my teachers and fellow peers, but relieved this is all coming to an end. Class of 2020 graduating via Zoom it is.....

Best of luck wherever you end up. It'll be an interesting first year in University if you go that way. The planning for that is long underway.

Comer1 wrote: »

We should only be asked to give predicted grades for the exam. Any project work already submitted, such as DCG, should still be marked as normal.

Any project work submitted should be marked, that makes sense. However, should orals still be awarded 100% then? or other unfinished practical work? I'm just curious.

Spanish Eyes

Shn99 wrote: »

Thank you, Hope all goes well for all teachers and the DES provide ye with all the resources ye need going forward with this. Thanks for all your hard work.

You will go far. All the best

Multipass

I’m so ashamed of my country, I hope my son leaves and gets into a college abroad, I really do. Hysterical cowards in charge of us.

doc_17

The marks handed out for Music and Orals are gone

NIMAN

Surely with a bit of effort they could have accommodated these exams?

They have entire schools to use, kids could be well spread out, not all in one big hall.

Comer1

bren2001 wrote: »

However, should orals still be awarded 100% then? or other unfinished practical work? I'm just curious.

They will have to be. But when the department applies it bell curve magic to the results we submit, it should bring them into line with other years

Colleges which require minimum in certain subjects like Irish in primary teacher courses will surely have their own interviews/orals or written tests as part of the entry criteria.

thomas 123

If it was down to my teachers I’d have failed the leaving.

Luckily it was up to me and got my first choice in college.

Ranking is absolutely crazy. I feel for anyone who was like me in school.

Spanish Eyes

Multipass wrote: »

I’m so ashamed of my country, I hope my son leaves and gets into a college abroad, I really do. Hysterical cowards in charge of us.

It’s a tough time for everyone, not alone LC.

Sleep on it and I’m sure it will all work out. Final Secondary exams have been cancelled all over. I think this will a relief for many..

Mardy Bum

Clear your inbox folks. It is about to fill up with emails from 6th years for the first time since March 13th. All will have found the wifi button and their anxiety will have disappeared.

Treppen

Shn99 wrote: »

Thank you, Hope all goes well for all teachers and the DES provide ye with all the resources ye need going forward with this. Thanks for all your hard work.

Shn99

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Clear your inbox folks. It is about to fill up with emails from 6th years for the first time since March 13th. All will have found the wifi button and their anxiety will have disappeared.

I have seen tweets like the one attached the past half an hour scrolling through twitter, best of luck to all in dealing with the fallout from it.
https://twitter.com/shanebeattynews/status/1258495583351947264?s=21

TheValeyard

Good luck to teachers who correct their own students mocks. Ye are in a legal minefield now.

km79

doc_17 wrote: »

The marks handed out for Music and Orals are gone

The final threads are being pulled apart

rainbowtrout

skippy1977 wrote: »

There are so many finer points I would imagine that would be overlooked. I just scanned through the results of my 6th Year Ordinary Maths class to get an idea of how they might be ranked, if it came to that.
The last month in school generally involves a process, where the students at the bottom of that ranking and I decide whether they will chance the ordinary level paper or might be better sitting the foundation level paper so as to avoid anyone failing the exam. I have a pretty weak class where this year I would have probably recommended that out of 22, 3 or 4 do that.
What happens those students this year. I would imagine they would be reluctant to drop (will there even be a mechanism for this) and so whoever I have last on the ranking, according to a bell curve, would fail the exam? Or if those students can be convinced to drop, as they are at the bottom, does the next last person fail....though they would have been fine!!
Similar would apply to dropping from Higher to Ordinary...

...just thinking aloud here!

What teacher around the country will be willing to write down a fail grade for a student?

Whatever about the grade inflation aspect of it, a percentage of students fail every year. Is anyone willing to commit to a fail. No pass in maths, no college for example.