CrabRevolution wrote: » I'd imagine the higher stakes (i.e. the predicted grade is the final grade; no confirmatory exam like in the UK) in Ireland will result in even more overestimates than in the UK. No matter how strong their integrity and honesty, I think every teacher tasked with picking their student's grades will know in the back of their head that by giving honest marks they could be condemning their entire class to not getting courses they deserve because there are teachers out there giving overinflated marks. I can also see a lot of people choosing to do the LC exam if it becomes an option. They'll have nothing to lose as presumably they get to pick the better of the results (predicted vs. exam). PG could get interesting going into the future. I can see enormous numbers of 500+ point students this year. I know this year they are only up against each other so it could cancel out. But say someone uses those points in a year or 2 when things are back to normal. With the inflated predicted grade, do they not have an advantage over those who sat the exam that year? Also, 2 points out of 15 is a 13.3% error. That's a pretty enormous margin of error, especially for something as important as LC points.
Newbie20 wrote: » Like many of you here I feel Predictive Grading would be a disaster. Teachers know exactly why it would be but people that aren’t teachers don’t seem to fully grasp why it would be such a difficult thing to have to do and how using previous grades is not fair (cheating in mocks, different standard of 5th Year exams etc). Not to mention students that changed levels after the mocks, they would have no previous grades in their new level. Surely it would turn into a joke of epic proportions with the grind type schools potentially giving loads of high grades as they need them to attract future students. I suppose we just have to wait approximately 4 weeks and we’ll have a good idea.
bren2001 wrote: » Huge issues with it but what is a better alternative? I cannot think of another but I hope the DEC can.
Mardy Bum wrote: » How about running the exams as planned in August.
Nalani Hissing Appetizer wrote: » Predictive grades based on ‘guessing’ is a non - runner. Predictive grades based on recorded results is possible. For every teacher complaining about ‘hard’ marking of the the mocks, another will say the mark was too generous. The only possibility is using previous results and demanding each student sign some sort of legal document in which they agree to accept the final result.
Mardy Bum wrote: » How about running the exams as planne in August.
brighterspark wrote: » No one knows what the situation will be in August - to quote Dr Holohan when asked about an event in late August - “All I would be doing is speculating in relation to where we would be at the end of August.” How can SEC plan in these circumstances and how is it fair to ask or expect our students to prepare and perform to the best of their ability under these conditions?
eastie17 wrote: » Take about making a complete balls of something! Why, in all of the histronic media coverage is there no representation from the student cohert who just want to get on with it? And dont get me started on all of the talking heads offering their opinions who clearly dont have a ****ing clue. Yes, of course there should be a better way to judge the senior cycle, but there isn't one so you cant just invent one now!!Asking the colleges to review the CAO applications and checking the numbers to see if by doing some jiggery pokery can they fit everyone into their first choices makes more sense than this predictive grading bolloxology people keep coming out with. Exams could have and should have happened as timetabled. They now need to happen in July. The uncertainty the media keep crying about is being created by the Government still talking about it. You've declared the date Minister not just tell everyone to get on with it, uncertainty over.
joe40 wrote: » I wonder would it be possible to run a slimmed down leaving cert. Maybe every pupil just sit 3/4subjects perhaps Maths, English and 2 other options To be chosen by pupil.
eastie17 wrote: » They could have run in June,
eastie17 wrote: » the situation wont be worse in August so they absolutely could and should run.
eastie17 wrote: » They need to just be definitive that they WILL run and they you put an immediate stop to all of this nonsense. Dr Holohans job is to offer an opinion, its the Governments job to take his and others opinions and make decisions.
Polka_Dot wrote: » I do wonder how many of the students calling for predicted grades actually think it's a fair idea, and how many of them just don't want to do the exams. Don't get me wrong, if you told me in 6th year that not doing the exams was potentially an option, I would have been delighted. But I do think there is a real case from students and parents of thinking that it's too much to ask of them to actually put in the work (which they would still be doing at this time if the LC was going ahead as normal) and to "cut them a break." The LC is no walk in the park, I myself had a nervous breakdown in 6th year, but there is a cynical part of me thinking students are just looking for the easy way out.
ricflair7 wrote: » It’s become apparent the exams can’t take place in usual format, but this delaying and half arsed announcements so far have been a disgrace, Fianna Fails loud statements haven’t helped either!! Speaking as a parent of a leaving cert I can see the anxiety and stress my child is going through and it’s just not fair. It’s time they got their act together and made a definitive call!!!
Purefrank128 wrote: » People need to calm down a lot and not get ahead of themselves. Currently, the idea of predictive grades being used has no standing with the SEC, DES or government.
Rosita wrote: » The government would argue that they have made a definitive call - LC to start on 29th July. Yes, they have lacked detail around that which has undermined the message but they have given a definitive date. It's ironic that you would criticise Fianna Fáil's loud statement because all they are really doing is what you are doing and calling for clarity and a 'definitive' decision that people might actually believe. It's kinda what an opposition party is supposed to do...….oppose and challenge the government.
ricflair7 wrote: » I’m not advocating for predicted grades and as I’m sure the vast majority of students and parents aren’t. It’s become apparent the exams can’t take place in usual format, but this delaying and half arsed announcements so far have been a disgrace, Fianna Fails loud statements haven’t helped either!! Speaking as a parent of a leaving cert I can see the anxiety and stress my child is going through and it’s just not fair. It’s time they got their act together and made a definitive call!!!
rainbowtrout wrote: » They came out with a plan. Exams starting the 29th of July and timetable to be published in June - we'll get back to you then with more detail, in the meantime keep studying. The media have whipped this into a frenzy on a daily basis, so much so that people post those headlines here every morning instead of just ignoring them. Not sure how they can make a definitive call. We can't make the 29th of July come any sooner. I'd say there are a huge number of logistical details to work out. Coronavirus/social distancing is not the biggest logistical detail. The SEC need to work out how many examiners they need to supervise the exams and if they can recruit that number of examiners. If they don't have enough to supervise then the exams can't take place. Or they have to look at some format of a staggered schedule to allow them to take place. Or they have to look at hiring large sports halls, conference rooms/function rooms in hotels where they can have a larger number of people and less supervisors required per head. I'm making the broad assumption that the budget is relatively unlimited to allow this to happen and get as many Leaving Certs out the door as is possible. If you move exams to an alternative centre, then they might have to consider rerouting buses to bring those students who avail of the school transport scheme to and from their exams. Or even hire more buses to allow for social distancing. It woudn't be necessary in every instance, a lot of schools have a large sports hall which could be used for exams. A lot of smaller towns might have a suitable venue within walking distance of the school. Either way, that involves negotiations with Bus Eireann etc. If all of that works, then you have to factor in marking time. I'd presume the time between sitting the exam and starting the marking might be shortened to keep things moving. Do you hire extra examiners to speed up the marking or do you keep to the same time frame as normal? Will all the JC examiners who normally mark be willing to move to LC? Some won't. What impact will this have on the return to school? Can't be in two places at once. Marking is a full time job. Can't sit and mark all day and also be at school teaching. If there is a time line for all of that, then the third level colleges have to be informed as to when the SEC would expect to have results, so then they can plan when to start their first year cohort. There are a huge number of factors which have to be worked out and it will have a domino effect on the other factors. Expecting a detailed plan just because the media are demanding it so they have something to write about will just mean if Joe McHugh et al cave to populism that we do get a half arsed plan that won't work properly. Logistically the exams can work in the same way that shops and businesses do at the moment. There's no reason that when students enter an exam hall that the answer booklets can't be on the tables, or if that is considered an issue that supervisors can't be issued with masks. Two students normally sign the packet of papers at the start to say they weren't opened beforehand. No reason you can't leave the packet on a desk, stand back and allow them to sign the packet, having sanitised their hands first of course. Same kind of system could be used for handing back papers at the end of the exam. There are ways and means to do everything, it's better to leave those that are running the exams work out all these niggles rather than rush out a half arsed plan now.
ricflair7 wrote: » Joe McHugh said on an Instagram livestream this students that they have a plan A,B,C,D and E, well where are these plans?
ricflair7 wrote: » It just looks like they kept kicking the can down the road and now the time has come to make a decision and they don’t know what to do.
ricflair7 wrote: » “it's better to leave those that are running the exams work out all these niggles rather than rush out a half arsed plan now.” Every plan since the start of this pandemic from the department of education relating to junior and leaving cert! I would go as far to say as there hasn’t been a plan since the start!
ricflair7 wrote: » This constant denial that the exams can take place in their normal format has got us to where we are and it’s time to either bring out this ‘masterplan’ they’ve been working on to run these exams or cancel
ricflair7 wrote: » You say it like they’ve just realised that the virus is serious? Since the schools closed on the 13 March has it not been clear that realistically they wouldn’t open again and the LC would be in doubt. Granted I understand in the early days we did not know where we were headed with the virus and how serious it would be but could all of them logistics not have been worked on behind the scenes since then. Joe McHugh said on an Instagram livestream this students that they have a plan A,B,C,D and E, well where are these plans? It just looks like they kept kicking the can down the road and now the time has come to make a decision and they don’t know what to do. “it's better to leave those that are running the exams work out all these niggles rather than rush out a half arsed plan now.” Every plan since the start of this pandemic from the department of education relating to junior and leaving cert! I would go as far to say as there hasn’t been a plan since the start! This constant denial that the exams can take place in their normal format has got us to where we are and it’s time to either bring out this ‘masterplan’ they’ve been working on to run these exams or cancel
ricflair7 wrote: » If the government made a definitive call then the idea of predictive grades wouldn’t be discussed. Leo Varadkar said ‘by hook or by crook’ we will have exams. Then the government said that the exams were postponed until 29th July BUT a decision would be made the first week in June relating this and a timetable would be formed. I understand that they couldn’t make a call as they could not predict the future, but their persistent view that it would take place in its normal format and now the idea of predictive grades really is not fair on students. I understand your point that Fianna Fails job is to oppose the government but was it necessary to call for a complete cancellation with no extensive research into alternatives. It just wasn’t necessary and honestly added to the stress and anxiety. Even Michael Martin on prime time referred to it as ‘Thomas Byrnes Statement’ almost distancing himself from it. While other parties are calling for clarity and a decision which is fair and isn’t riling students up as much!
ricflair7 wrote: » Rainbowtrout- you say if McHugh came out and said “come hell or high water we are running the LC” and had to revert we would be complaining. Have you forgotten Varadkar “by hook or by crook” statement? That seems along those lines. As I’ve said before I understand when the virus was in early stages it was very hard to predict, but other countries (Uk,France) moved quickly to cancel their traditional exams
