Masks

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

A choice to infect others?

If you say so.

is_that_so wrote: »

If you say so.

If I have the virus (I could also be asymptomatic and don't know I have it)... I wear a mask and I am protecting others from my germs...

If you have the virus and could be asymptomatic and don't wear a mask you are infecting others.

How is anyone ok with infecting people which can kill some people?

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

If I have the virus (I could also be asymptomatic and don't know I have it)... I wear a mask and I am protecting others from my germs...

If you have the virus and could be asymptomatic and don't wear a mask you are infecting others.

How is anyone ok with infecting people which can kill some people?

I see a what if there not reality. It is in decline and that probability is now a very small one. That to me is where the informed decision comes in.

is_that_so wrote: »

I see a what if there not reality. It is in decline and that probability is now a very small one.

What is in decline? The virus in decline? Based on tests done on symptomatic people?

How can you justify your reasons for infecting others? It's selfish behaviour.

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

What is in decline? The virus in decline? Based on tests done on symptomatic people?

How can you justify your reasons for infecting others? It's selfish behaviour.

My view of COVID-19 is that we are going to have to live with it and manage and control its prevalence. While it may well mean some adjustments, it does not mean IMO masks on our faces till a vaccine is found. Now you may wish to call that selfish, reckless or something else. It's really just a completely difference of perspective.

is_that_so wrote: »

My view of COVID-19 is that we are going to have to live with it and manage and control its prevalence. While it may well mean some adjustments, it does not mean IMO masks on our faces till a vaccine is found. Now you may wish to call that selfish, reckless or something else. It's really just a completely difference of perspective.

And this is why I'm blaming the government if they don't make it mandatory and knowing how it spreads. We didn't have a choice with a lockdown, but we have a choice with face masks?

If and a big if (because at this stage, it's a complete joke)... If masks are made mandatory, what will you do?

is_that_so wrote: »

My view of COVID-19 is that we are going to have to live with it and manage and control its prevalence. While it may well mean some adjustments, it does not mean IMO masks on our faces till a vaccine is found. Now you may wish to call that selfish, reckless or something else. It's really just a completely difference of perspective.

Agree with that a bit

Unhealthy and the old should wear them for sure to protect themselves, maybe make it law for that group.

Healthy young people won't be over crowding hospitals

You've to be under 60/unhealthy to not wear a mask, just like you've to be 18 to drink alcohol

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

And this is why I'm blaming the government if they don't make it mandatory and knowing how it spreads. We didn't have a choice with a lockdown, but we have a choice with face masks?

If and a big if (because at this stage, it's a complete joke)... If masks are made mandatory, what will you do?

I'll deal with that if it happens but I honestly don't believe it will be much more than a friendly suggestion

is_that_so wrote: »

Experts, I've some to realise during this have their own agendas. Mostly they have aligned with extremely vital public health matters but there is also a level of alarmism there too, which is not at all useful. Our "experts" are not inclined towards mandatory so it will be a choice.

Hong Kong -- a region right beside China with a population of 7 million people -- currently has only 1,041 cases and 4 deaths. Hong Kong has experience with similar virus outbreaks in the past, and would have experts more knowledgeable and experienced than our own as a result

The head of epidemiology in the University of Hong Kong published a study looking at the effectiveness of face masks to prevent the spread of the virus:

One of the proposals for lifting lockdowns is that we use mass testing along with contact tracing and quarantine, to get ahead of infections in the community

If you are identified as an infected person, the health department can trace your family members, your social contacts and your occupational contacts, but it is very difficult to trace who you were sitting next to on the bus or train.

If we can limit transmission in these kinds of locations, it could really be a big help

One of the reasons widespread, public face mask wearing is so important with Covid-19 has to do with the prevalence of asymptomatic carriers who can still spread the virus to others. It is estimated that anywhere from 6% to almost 18% of those infected can carry the virus without developing symptoms. Add to this an incubation period of around five days, but up to 14 days in some cases, before symptoms develop and even those who do go on to show signs of being contagious can spread the virus to a lot of people before they start to fall ill.

This makes it particularly difficult to suppress transmission in the community. But if everybody is wearing face masks, that would mean infected and asymptomatic people are also wearing masks. That could help to reduce the amount of virus which gets into the environment and potentially causes infections.

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200504-coronavirus-what-is-the-best-kind-of-face-mask?ocid=fbfut&fbclid=IwAR1B_vb2ghLDZCl9WmZkzLrnLaOcVGsPozMF2RZCRd2yvtDJdYU_4Oe24PI&referer=https%3A%2F%2Fl.facebook.com%2F

People against face masks, or waiting for the HSE to tell them to wear them, are ignorant and/or unwilling or incapable of doing a small bit of reading to understand the reasoning behind having mask wearing in place. People are mostly respecting the lockdown, because they are aware that it helps slow the spreading which in turn helps our healthcare staff to cope and reduces the number of avoidable deaths, even though the lockdown is forcing us to remain at home and not having interaction with other people. Why then would people not respect this other measure which actually allows us to get the lockdown eased and interacting at least with our family and friends again? Makes absolutely no sense, the anti mask sentiment

Arrival wrote: »

Hong Kong -- a region right beside China with a population of 7 million people -- currently has only 1,041 cases and 4 deaths. Hong Kong has experience with similar virus outbreaks in the past, and would have experts more knowledgeable and experienced than our own as a result

The head of epidemiology in the University of Hong Kong published a study looking at the effectiveness of face masks to prevent the spread of the virus:

https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200504-coronavirus-what-is-the-best-kind-of-face-mask?ocid=fbfut&fbclid=IwAR1B_vb2ghLDZCl9WmZkzLrnLaOcVGsPozMF2RZCRd2yvtDJdYU_4Oe24PI&referer=https%3A%2F%2Fl.facebook.com%2F

People against face masks, or waiting for the HSE to tell them to wear them, are ignorant and/or unwilling or incapable of doing a small bit of reading to understand the reasoning behind having mask wearing in place. People are mostly respecting the lockdown, because they are aware that it helps slow the spreading which in turn helps our healthcare staff to cope and reduces the number of avoidable deaths, even though the lockdown is forcing us to remain at home and not having interaction with other people. Why then would people not respect this other measure which actually allows us to get the lockdown eased and interacting at least with our family and friends again? Makes absolutely no sense, the anti mask sentiment

The lockdown was forced on us... This is why we need it made mandatory.

What Username Guidelines

It seems that Germany, Belgium, France, Italy and Spain are making masks mandatory on public transport and in public indoor spaces like shops, so hopefully our copy/paste government take note.

Mike3287 wrote: »

Agree with that a bit

Unhealthy and the old should wear them for sure to protect themselves, maybe make it law for that group.

Healthy young people won't be over crowding hospitals

You've to be under 60/unhealthy to not wear a mask, just like you've to be 18 to drink alcohol

The longer people push back against facemasks because they'll be fine if they get it, the longer the restrictions must be in place. We're a couple of months into this and Hong Kong are now 17 days without a case caused by community transmission. If we went that long without a case we could open the whole country. It's not about wearing a mask until a vaccine, its about wearing one until the virus is heavily surpressed.

Mike3287 wrote: »

Agree with that a bit

Unhealthy and the old should wear them for sure to protect themselves, maybe make it law for that group.

Healthy young people won't be over crowding hospitals

You've to be under 60/unhealthy to not wear a mask, just like you've to be 18 to drink alcohol

Jesus Christ, even this far into the pandemic we have people this ignorant on the virus and how it spreads

I'm telling ye, we have serious issues with critical thinking skills amongst the general population, this kind of **** being posted on here proves it. Sorry if that's harsh but ****ing hell, come on like

Arrival wrote: »

Jesus Christ, even this far into the pandemic we have people this ignorant on the virus and how it spreads

I'm telling ye, we have serious issues with critical thinking skills amongst the general population, this kind of **** being posted on here proves it

It's either isolate that group from society or gear them up

Virus can't be stopped here now, it's too widespread and do we have the man power to enforce mask wearing country wide?

I'd love everyone to maskup, it's the the way to go

I wear a mask/eye wear out and about and when I have to meet clients

What's your solution?

Mask up whole country and enforce it?

Can it be done?

stephenjmcd

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

It seems that Germany, Belgium, France, Italy and Spain are making masks mandatory on public transport and in public indoor spaces like shops, so hopefully our copy/paste government take note.

The longer people push back against facemasks because they'll be fine if they get it, the longer the restrictions must be in place. We're a couple of months into this and Hong Kong are now 17 days without a case caused by community transmission. If we went that long without a case we could open the whole country. It's not about wearing a mask until a vaccine, its about wearing one until the virus is heavily surpressed.

Except they have a functioning government to make mask wearing mandatory. We dont. Current caretaker government can't sign anything else into law at the moment.

It wouldn't be in law here and they know it, hence it'll be a non enforceable recommendation.

What Username Guidelines

Mike3287 wrote: »

It's either isolate that group from society or gear them up

Virus can't be stopped here now, it's too widespread and do we have the man power to enforce mask wearing country wide?

I'd love everyone to maskup, it's the the way to go

I wear a mask/eye wear out and about and when I have to meet clients

What's your solution?

Mask up whole country and enforce it?

Can it be done?

It shouldnt have to be enforced, it should be messaged clearly that it will save people. Problem is, Irish dont like being told what to do. The only hope is that shops make them mandatory for entry for example, I know transport unions are calling for it for Bus Drivers. But I'm losing hope fast.

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

It shouldnt have to be enforced, it should be messaged clearly that it will save people. Problem is, Irish dont like being told what to do. The only hope is that shops make them mandatory for entry for example, I know transport unions are calling for it for Bus Drivers. But I'm losing hope fast.

The CMO et al will not stand over that claim because if used it's in conjunction with other measures they do stand over.

is_that_so wrote: »

The CMO et al will not stand over that claim because if used it's in conjunction with other measures they do stand over.

But they're telling us already that we're saving people by staying at home. So why not say that with masks?

In situations where there's no distancing ... Like in shops and people walking into your space.

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

It shouldnt have to be enforced, it should be messaged clearly that it will save people. Problem is, Irish dont like being told what to do. The only hope is that shops make them mandatory for entry for example, I know transport unions are calling for it for Bus Drivers. But I'm losing hope fast.

Agree our only hope is something like transport, shops, services and all them enforcing and they won't do it if it involves losing business, like my local supermarkets have stopped queues outside

Tesco noticed Lidl/Aldi were letting loads of people in and losing business with people turning away when they saw the queue outsides and went upto Lidl

We all know its a waste of time and Irish won't comply and why would they

For one masks cost money and young people basically think they are immune and we have travellers a law themselves

If your 20 and healthy you've probably got a better chance of being hit by lightning than dieing of Covid19

Sam Hain

Berfikmul wrote: »

I wear a mask all the time.

Hello Rocky Dennis.

Mike3287 wrote: »

It's either isolate that group from society or gear them up

Virus can't be stopped here now, it's too widespread and do we have the man power to enforce mask wearing country wide?

I'd love everyone to maskup, it's the the way to go

I wear a mask/eye wear out and about and when I have to meet clients

What's your solution?

Mask up whole country and enforce it?

Can it be done?

It probably can't be stopped, because we would still have people entering the country when things are back opening up and there'd always be a small few people who'd either disregard the guidelines or absentmindedly slip up, but it could most definitely be suppressed enough with a combination of measures, to the point that we could get back to living a fairly normal life again, as they would be able to easily and successfully trace contacts. It's all about reducing the spread amongst the community which makes contact tracing more difficult

And that's another thing they're seriously failing us in, they still haven't got an app ready. There are apps available which are open source, meaning anyone can verify the coding, and ensure full anonymity while actually being effective at tracing contacts without using GPS data. They use the Bluetooth to communicate with other phones of anyone who happens to be nearby and if you are near enough to them for long enough, and you or the other person ends up testing positive, the app updates the other person about that to tell them to isolate and get tested.

This kind of thing + mask wearing + hand hygiene + social distancing would really get us to a good place with managing to track and Chase the virus. The virus only spreads if people allow it to, we really can outsmart it quite easily

And yeah, I absolutely think active enforcement of these things should be in place. We're in a pandemic, things change during a crisis and being soft handed and lenient clearly results in some people simply putting their selfish personal needs over the good of the public health

RugbyLad11

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Except they have a functioning government to make mask wearing mandatory. We dont. Current caretaker government can't sign anything else into law at the moment.

It wouldn't be in law here and they know it, hence it'll be a non enforceable recommendation.

What about the law saying people can't go over 2km and 5km etc

Haven't people being arrested for this?

stephenjmcd

RugbyLad11 wrote: »

What about the law saying people can't go over 2km and 5km etc

Haven't people being arrested for this?

Covid healthcare act was passed by the last Seanad. Legislation gave the minister powers to sign garda enforcement of said legislation.

Any amendment to current legislation or new legislation would have to go to Dail and Seanad. Seanad can't sit until a new Taoiseach has appointmented 11 members to it.

In other words if they want to make an amendment to make masks mandatory it has to go through the usual process. Now unless theres a clause in it, of which there might well be seeing as loopholes have already been found as absolutely none of it applies to a person who's not resident of the state. But I highly doubt there's anything in it to allow them to make new laws up as they please without due process.

Leo has hinted at it a few times in the last 2 weeks that anything issued would only be a recommendation,
"it is not something we’d ever make compulsory, but it’s something that we may make advisory.”

Sconsey

Mike3287 wrote: »

Agree our only hope is something like transport, shops, services and all them enforcing and they won't do it if it involves losing business, like my local supermarkets have stopped queues outside

Tesco noticed Lidl/Aldi were letting loads of people in and losing business with people turning away when they saw the queue outsides and went upto Lidl

Sounds kind of made up, 'he said, she said' rubbish.

We all know its a waste of time and Irish won't comply and why would they

How do you know that? other countries experience suggest it is not a waste of time. How do you know the Irish won't comply? what makes you some kind of oracle on the topic? The vast majority have complied to all the current regulations.

For one masks cost money and young people basically think they are immune and we have travellers a law themselves

If your 20 and healthy you've probably got a better chance of being hit by lightning than dieing of Covid19

Amazing! you still don't get it...if the healthy 20 year old gets the virus they could spread it (regardless of symptoms), if they wear a mask then it reduces the risk of them spreading the virus potentially saving the lives of those that are not healthy 20 year olds.

Outlaw Pete

Seen a few valved masks about earlier today. My money would be on such people not being aware that the valve means they are no longer protecting others and only themselves. Nice tip here on covering the valve:

https://twitter.com/SFFFLocal798/status/1257385993725935617

This is very interesting read about aerosols in normal breathing and speech. Just another reason for masks and face coverings. Speech can release larger number of particles compared to coughing... At least most of us are covering our mouths when coughing.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-38808-z

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

This is very interesting read about aerosols in normal breathing and speech. Just another reason for masks and face coverings. Speech can release larger number of particles compared to coughing... At least most of us are covering our mouths when coughing.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-38808-z

One of the articles I linked in another post on here mentioned a study which found that simply saying "stay healthy" resulted in thousands of droplets being released, and these droplets can end up staying airborne for hours. Apparently COVID-19 is particularly resilient at staying infectious even while just floating in the air like this, so indoors where the air is very still it's likely that an infectious person could leave viral loads all over the place and accidentally infect other people long after they've left

This is why the virus has spread so quickly and effectively across the world, combined with the incubation period of up to 14 days

Arrival wrote: »

One of the articles I linked in another post on here mentioned a study which found that simply saying "stay healthy" resulted in thousands of droplets being released, and these droplets can end up staying airborne for hours. Apparently COVID-19 is particularly resilient at staying infectious even while just floating in the air like this, so indoors where the air is very still it's likely that an infectious person could leave viral loads all over the place and accidentally infect other people long after they've left

This is why the virus has spread so quickly and effectively across the world, combined with the incubation period of up to 14 days

I just want to lock myself away.

Arrival wrote: »

One of the articles I linked in another post on here mentioned a study which found that simply saying "stay healthy" resulted in thousands of droplets being released, and these droplets can end up staying airborne for hours. Apparently COVID-19 is particularly resilient at staying infectious even while just floating in the air like this, so indoors where the air is very still it's likely that an infectious person could leave viral loads all over the place and accidentally infect other people long after they've left

This is why the virus has spread so quickly and effectively across the world, combined with the incubation period of up to 14 days

Shouldn't we also be wearing goggles if these aerosols are just hanging around?

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Shouldn't we also be wearing goggles if these aerosols are just hanging around?

Of course and they have to be tight on the skin too, face shield would be best