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How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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trapp

TheValeyard wrote: »

What are your practical solutions so?

Smaller class sizes

Children come in one or two days a week to allow for reduced numbers

staggered starting and finishing times

staggered break times

constant reminders of hygeine

regular handwashing

Alternative shut up shop for a few years and the teachers join the dole queue and we raise an uneducated generation

Over to you my friend

TheValeyard

trapp wrote: »

Smaller class sizes

Possible, may need to hire many more teachers to teach the other kids, as teachers are already on contracted class contact hours.

trapp wrote: »

Children come in one or two days a week to allow for reduced numbers

Probably will happen.

trapp wrote: »

staggered starting and finishing times

Dept of Education would need to square this with bus companies who transport many children to school. Various times may not work.

trapp wrote: »

staggered break times

No need if you just operate a morning or afternoon school

trapp wrote: »

constant reminders of hygeine

Teenagers and hygiene.....

trapp wrote: »

regular handwashing

Once again, teenagers and hygiene

trapp wrote: »

Alternative shut up shop for a few years and the teachers join the dole queue and we raise an uneducated generation

That's never an option, and teachers are already teaching online, it could continue if needs be.

trapp wrote: »

Over to you my friend

Not a job for. Me, that's a job for senior management and high level public servants on 100K. Maybe they could finally earn their income.

trapp

TheValeyard wrote: »

Possible, may need to hire many more teachers to teach the other kids, as teachers are already on contracted class contact hours.

Probably will happen.

Dept of Education would need to square this with bus companies who transport many children to school. Various times may not work.

No need if you just operate a morning or afternoon school

Teenagers and hygiene.....

Once again, teenagers and hygiene

That's never an option, and teachers are already teaching online, it could continue if needs be.

Not a job for. Me, that's a job for senior management and high level public servants on 100K. Maybe they could finally earn their income.

Again another teacher putting obstacles in the way.

And some laughable ones too, cant open schools because the teenagers wont wash their hands. Cant open schools because it wont suit the bus driver.

Laughable attitude.

Online teaching is fine short term but is not a solution for a few years.

Most deis level schools are having little engagement in any case.

Teenagers are taught maths aren't they? Spend a class or two teaching them how to wash their hands.

Obstacles, obstacles and more obstacles instead of thinking of solutions.

Of course schools should not open until safe but find ways of making them safer places.

Alex86Eire

trapp wrote: »

regular handwashing

We have 700 kids with one bathroom for them containing 2 sinks. It'll be interesting..

TheValeyard

trapp wrote: »

Again another teacher putting obstacles in the way.

And some laughable ones too, cant open schools because the teenagers wont wash their hands. Cant open schools because it wont suit the bus driver.

Laughable attitude.

Online teaching is fine short term but is not a solution for a few years.

Most deis level schools are having little engagement in any case.

Teenagers are taught maths aren't they? Spend a class or two teaching them how to wash their hands.

Obstacles, obstacles and more obstacles instead of thinking of solutions.

Of course schools should not open until safe but find ways of making them safer places.

The mental gymnastics is strong with this one.

Alex86Eire

trapp wrote: »

Obstacles, obstacles and more obstacles instead of thinking of solutions.

Of course schools should not open until safe but find ways of making them safer places.

Sorry but why are you expecting the people on this forum to solve this?

lulublue22

trapp wrote: »

Smaller class sizes

Children come in one or two days a week to allow for reduced numbers

staggered starting and finishing times

staggered break times

constant reminders of hygeine

regular handwashing

Alternative shut up shop for a few years and the teachers join the dole queue and we raise an uneducated generation

Over to you my friend

smaller classes sizes - how small ?

how to ensure children stay 2 m apart during the day ?

staggered start times - to allow 2 different groups to be taught ? if so who deep cleans in between groups ? staggered start times to prevent too many arriving at once ? - how would that work in an 800 pupil school ? Our local primary is in and around 750 ish children. Even having 150 children in a day thats a lot of time allocated to allow children to arrive safely and leave safely.

staggered breaks - possible in smaller schools difficult to manage in a larger school.

depending on school size children could be in once a week - who teaches them the rest of the week given that teachers are in school teaching the next batch of children ?

We do need to put procedures in place to facilitate schools reopening but it is a difficult process and not as straight forward as some would like to suggest.

ETA

as a school we have had discussions re practical steps we can take in relation to our own circumstances - such as staggering breaks , use of various entrances , no team teaching etc rules around pe equipment hand washing cleaning tables etc. I presume other schools have too. Obviously an application of what we have discussed will be based on guidance and input from Dep ie our employers.

kandr10

trapp wrote: »

Seem to be repeating the same thing in this thread all the time.

This pandemic is here to stay in some form for the next year or two.

Two choices for schools, open in some form or stay shut for two years.

Presuming we want to open schools the group, including some teachers, that are constantly coming up with obstacles need to change their mindset.

It's not about why we cant open schools but instead how we can open them.

Instead of pointing out the reasons why not, instead think of ways to make the impossible become possible.

Any teachers who can't come in or feel they can't can receive a reduced payment while they are waiting.

And that previous line is not a dig at teachers its just the reality the country is in at the moment.

Harsh as it sounds education for the children of the country can't just be put off for a few years because a teacher is vulnerable or at risk. These teachers might just have to wait until the virus danger is completely gone.

I do get where you’re coming from. However, a lot of these obstacles are things we have zero control over. For example, very small classrooms with large numbers of kids, no corridors between some classes, corridors that are less than 2m in width in other cases. We can’t change the buildings physically- we have to work with what we’ve got. So to trouble shoot some of these issues - I’d say max 5-6 kids per class in at once to allow appropriate distancing between kids. That would take the week to get through a class of 30. Is that something parents would agree to? How do you balance going back to work and childcare on the other days if a reduced timetable is indeed necessary? How does the teacher do distance learning with the portion of the class that aren’t in If they are teaching small groups? I’m not trying to put obstacles in the way - these are genuine questions that would require direction at a higher level.

History Queen

trapp wrote: »

Seem to be repeating the same thing in this thread all the time.

This pandemic is here to stay in some form for the next year or two.

Two choices for schools, open in some form or stay shut for two years.

Presuming we want to open schools the group, including some teachers, that are constantly coming up with obstacles need to change their mindset.

It's not about why we cant open schools but instead how we can open them.

Instead of pointing out the reasons why not, instead think of ways to make the impossible become possible.

Any teachers who can't come in or feel they can't can receive a reduced payment while they are waiting.

And that previous line is not a dig at teachers its just the reality the country is in at the moment.

Harsh as it sounds education for the children of the country can't just be put off for a few years because a teacher is vulnerable or at risk. These teachers might just have to wait until the virus danger is completely gone.

I agree with much of what you said, and I'm not being obstructionist, merely thinking out loud so to speak, smaller class sizes makes absolute sense to me in terms of social distancing but I am wondering how the obstacles to it (namely 1. enough classrooms 2.enough teachers) can be solved in the short term.

My school is already at capacity give or take (approx 3 free classrooms per class period) and using prefabs (some prefabs are institu 20 years!). We also have had issues recruiting teachers for maternity leave positions in in-demand subjects. The teachers aren't there in some cases.

I have put some thought in to this and aside from prefabs/using halls etc. to increase capacity I don't know how teacher shortage can be addressed?

vid36

I have another suggestion, preparing to alter the school calendar. Many leading experts predict a second wave of Covid in the autumn/winter. In preparation for the inevitable shutdown during this period, schools should open in early August this year and be prepared to run though the summer in 2021 if necessary.

kandr10

vid36 wrote: »

I have another suggestion, preparing to alter the school calendar. Many leading experts predict a second wave of Covid in the autumn/winter. In preparation for the inevitable shutdown during this period, schools should open in early August this year and be prepared to run though the summer in 2021 if necessary.

That’s a good suggestion. How do you do it with appropriate social distancing , given some of the difficulties around this that have been brought up?

Long_Wave

kandr10 wrote: »

That’s a good suggestion. How do you do it with appropriate social distancing , given some of the difficulties around this that have been brought up?

There is no "social distancing" down the deli in spar or in the slaughter house but life goes on.

kandr10

Long_Wave wrote: »

There is no "social distancing" down the deli in spar or in the slaughter house but life goes on.

Really? In my local shops there is..

TomTree

Alex86Eire wrote: »

We have 700 kids with one bathroom for them containing 2 sinks. It'll be interesting..

That is a public health issue without any covid-19.

sideswipe

There isn’t going to be a perfect solution without an antiviral or vaccine. Schools are going to need to be provided with funds to put extra hand washing facilities in place. Perhaps the use of local halls/ sports facilities where available. This is going to take some outside the box thinking- simply saying teenagers are dirty so schools can’t open without a vaccine doesn’t wash.......pun intended.

Beasty

Beasty wrote: »

trapp - do not post in this thread again

This threadban was never revoked.

No need for anyone to respond further to trapp's posts as they are unable to post here

jimmytwotimes 2013

vid36 wrote: »

I have another suggestion, preparing to alter the school calendar. Many leading experts predict a second wave of Covid in the autumn/winter. In preparation for the inevitable shutdown during this period, schools should open in early August this year and be prepared to run though the summer in 2021 if necessary.

The leaving cert is on in August and will run in summer 2021 too so that would need fixing as well

TheValeyard

Beasty wrote: »

This threadban was never revoked.

No need for anyone to respond further to trapp's posts as they are unable to post here

You should change your tag 'put that light out' to 'stay 2m away from me'

kandr10

Beasty wrote: »

This threadban was never revoked.

No need for anyone to respond further to trapp's posts as they are unable to post here

Didn’t realise - sorry!

kandr10

sideswipe wrote: »

There isn’t going to be a perfect solution without an antiviral or vaccine. Schools are going to need to be provided with funds to put extra hand washing facilities in place. Perhaps the use of local halls/ sports facilities where available. This is going to take some outside the box thinking- simply saying teenagers are dirty so schools can’t open without a vaccine doesn’t wash.......pun intended.

I would agree it’s not practical to wait for a vaccine or anti virals. It’d be way too long for kids to be out of school. We do need out of the box thinking - it’s just hard to think of anything viable. Funds for cleaners for sure would be good. You can’t change a building though so as far as I can see you can only control how many are in it at once and how they use the building.

khalessi

sideswipe wrote: »

There isn’t going to be a perfect solution without an antiviral or vaccine. Schools are going to need to be provided with funds to put extra hand washing facilities in place. Perhaps the use of local halls/ sports facilities where available. This is going to take some outside the box thinking- simply saying teenagers are dirty so schools can’t open without a vaccine doesn’t wash.......pun intended.

As I suggested ages ago, the Dept should follow a model like Denmark and adapt to suit Irish schools. The Dept of Health seconded hotels as step down hospitals and in Denmark they took over other buildings to use as schools such as museums. The Dept of Ed should look at that suggestion or put in extra prefabs into schools. We should also do a shout out for teachers around the world to help.

Looking at Prime TIme the class shown with the 9 tables for 9 students was a junir or senior infant class, so we will have to split classes and maybe give each group a day in school, but how to teach other children. Money should be allocated to IT to allow children at home link in via Zoom or something. In my school there are 4 streams at one level so that would be about 14 pr 15 groups for 6th.

2 hourly handwashing is carried out in Denmar should be here too. Social distancing on the yard is going to nigh impossible to maintain so alternative activities for break.

Daily proper deep clean of the school this would be chairs tables sinks walls floors doors all areas, which will cost money. PPE equipment if required by staff or children, as on Prime Time last night a doctor re iterated what we know already that the virus can be shed while talking so optional masks if required by either teachers or staff

KerryConnor

Is it pie in the sky to hope social distancing wont be required to same extent come September?

I'm hoping that these stories that kids don't transmit much will mean social distancing wont be necessary...

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/swiss-elderly-told-they-can-hug-children-who-are-under-10-as-theyre-not-spreaders-39166432.html

Or perhaps there'll be readily available turnaround tests and kids can be tested regularly so can mingle in their class group once they're in school?

I teach in a large boys school and we'll have to open up again however way we can. But it breaks my heart to think of social distancing little boys they are naturally so physical and tactile.

khalessi

KerryConnor wrote: »

Is it pie in the sky to hope social distancing wont be required to same extent come September?

I'm hoping that these stories that kids don't transmit much will mean social distancing wont be necessary...

https://www.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/swiss-elderly-told-they-can-hug-children-who-are-under-10-as-theyre-not-spreaders-39166432.html

Or perhaps there'll be readily available turnaround tests and kids can be tested regularly so can mingle in their class group once they're in school?

I teach in a large boys school and we'll have to open up again however way we can. But it breaks my heart to think of social distancing little boys they are naturally so physical and tactile. I'd hate to be constantly reminding them and giving out.

Ah it is just tragic, the 6th class have missed their confirmation, their last tour their graduation ceremony, the pizza day we throw them on their last day and they are chatting to me on skype about missing out on all of that and just being able to see and hug their friends. It is awful as they know they wont be in a class again with their friends and never got the chance to say goodbye.

And for the other kids in the school just seeing their friends, their teachers social distancing would be hard to maintain, sure I feel like hugging them as they are so upset online about the whole thing.

Orchids

khalessi wrote: »

Ah it is just tragic, the 6th class have missed their confirmation, their last tour their graduation ceremony, the pizza day we throw them on their last day and they are chatting to me on skype about missing out on all of that and just being able to see and hug their friends. It is awful as they know they wont be in a class again with their friends and never got the chance to say goodbye.

And for the other kids in the school just seeing their friends, their teachers social distancing would be hard to maintain, sure I feel like hugging them as they are so upset online about the whole thing.

I wonder when the schools reopen will the classes finish out their current class or will they go straight to the next class up, which would mean the 6th classes go straight to secondary school without completing the last 3 months of primary?

wirelessdude01

Orchids wrote: »

I wonder when the schools reopen will the classes finish out their current class or will they go straight to the next class up, which would mean the 6th classes go straight to secondary school without completing the last 3 months of primary?

Everyone to move on in September. Too much added disruption otherwise.

khalessi

Orchids wrote: »

I wonder when the schools reopen will the classes finish out their current class or will they go straight to the next class up, which would mean the 6th classes go straight to secondary school without completing the last 3 months of primary?

I dont know. I woiuld love if we could just to give them a proper send off and be able to say goodbye properly as they are good kids

sideswipe

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Everyone to move on in September. Too much added disruption otherwise.

Yes but what about second, third, forth wave etc we could easily end up missing chunks out of next year too. I wish there was away that all classes went back and started the class they were in. Incoming Jnr infants get an extra year pre school everyone else doesn’t lose out with further shutdowns or are not effected by perhaps having only a couple of school days a week. Taking one school year over two would take the pressure off a lot of people.

wirelessdude01

sideswipe wrote: »

Yes but what about second, third, forth wave etc we could easily end up missing chunks out of next year too. I wish there was away that all classes went back and started the class they were in. Incoming Jnr infants get an extra year pre school everyone else doesn’t lose out with further shutdowns or are not effected by perhaps having only a couple of school days a week. Taking one school year over two would take the pressure off a lot of people.

If everyone stayed as they were there would be utter chaos. Never mind schools, creches and preschools would be able to take all the numbers.

Also a thought is never given to the age profile of some in 6th class. In our school this time next year we would have five 14yr olds still in primary school if they stayed as they are. That is not right.

gnf_ireland

I did state previously I would not comment on this thread again, and I have not followed the detail of it since then.

However (despite what some think of my attitude towards teachers on here), in the interests of fairness I do want to say that this week our school have really upped their game in terms of engagement with the kids, to coincide with stay safe week. Both teachers have recorded short videos for the students on a daily basis (90 seconds approximately), and both now accept homework back and correct it, offering words of encouragement to the students.

While it is not a long term solution, it has helped with keeping the girls motivated to do a level of school work from home. I am sure most families are experiencing a similar challenge to keep children, especially younger children, motivated in school work

In terms of the original question re September - I genuinely despair when I see that the best the government could come up with, after 6 weeks of school & creche closures, was that they would pay partners of healthcare workers who worked in the public sector to stay at home and mind the children (and ignore all those whose partners don't work in the public sector), and following that up with paying healthcare workers to stay at home.
If that's the level of strategic and innovative thinking at a government level, we all can safely assume September will be an absolute disaster - for everyone !

One of the first things they need to consider is delaying new junior infants starting school probably until January, to allow some level of normality return into the system during the first term.

Heather Humphreys said today that businesses need to have a plan in place around how they can open again with social distancing rules in place. I would hope they can follow their own advice and put a similar plan in place for the schools, and other public facilities.
https://www.thejournal.ie/plan-to-repoen-5087439-Apr2020/

gnf_ireland

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Everyone to move on in September. Too much added disruption otherwise.

Absolutely - classes have to move on. There may make slower progress through the year, and take 18 months to fully catch-up, but this years 2nd class have to move into 3rd etc. Same applies for all classes - would be madness to consider anything else.