wakka12 wrote: » It's obviously during covid. Anyone who's been to Scandinavia knows the people are not distant to the extent of the ridiculous stereotypes mentioned on the recent boards threads You'd wonder how the birth rate isn't zero and swedes havnt all died of depression and loneliness if they acted like some people claim they do
STB. wrote: » If you could get your statistics right please.
thebaz wrote: » it really is quite a turnaround, given they have been rubbishing the anti-body immunity testing for a week, when most doctors I have heard say anti-bodys should offer some protection, for probably a year - WHO were basically saying these anti-body tests are useless, just as they are being rolled out , and in particular to the healthcare professionals, and then today to change ther position, is frankly quite reckless, for an organisation who are supposedly leading this pandemic fight.
Breezin wrote: » That's because they know and accept that their strategy implies more cases in the short term. That is the essential difference. Higher daily stats now does not indicate failure.
growleaves wrote: » He also said that individual restaurants have been closed down in Sweden by local authorities due to failure to enforce social distancing. I still don't buy that Swedes 'naturally social distance'. Not in my experience they don't. Does anyone naturally always stand 2m apart from others?
STB. wrote: » If you could get your statistics right please. <Table from 2012 study>
jaykay74 wrote: » How up to date is that table ? For instance the same table is shown here in an article from 2012 (which is listed as the source at the bottom of the table... The variability of critical care bed numbers in Europe).https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s00134-012-2627-8
wakka12 wrote: » https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ Just worldometers. It is a very big increase, perhaps its a mistake Country only has a pop of 17m, if it is correct number it is probably the biggest daily increase in cases per capita in the world
Mic 1972 wrote: » new cases are on the rise, that's what i meant
Deleted User wrote: » Why are you comparing them to Ireland and not the neighbours they share a border with, i.e. Denmark, Finland & Norway?
[Deleted User] wrote: » Why are you comparing them to Ireland and not the neighbours they share a border with, i.e. Denmark, Finland & Norway? Oh that's right, because you have an opinion that you want to be true so you'll deliberately mislead with statistics to try make it true. Even though it isn't, you're just trying to lie by omission. Norway: 38 deaths per million Denmark: 75 deaths per million Finland: 36 deaths per million Sweden, using a very restrictive methodology for classifying a death as from covid-19: 233 deaths per million You're a fraud. Keep it to Twitter or Facebook where people can't point out that you're peddling absolute nonsense. To make it even worse for your 'argument', here are the testing figures; Norway: 166k tests / 30,611 tests per million Denmark: 166k tests / 28,805 tests per million Finland: 86k tests / 15,485 tests per million Sweden: 120k tests / 11,833 tests per milliom
cooperguy wrote: » Also worth pointing out that Ireland has some of the broadest reporting criteria in the world. Ireland reports deaths no matter where it occurs even if they dont test the patient for COVID and just suspect the death might be related.
Blut2 wrote: » In regards to comparisons to their neighbours, Sweden has had far higher rates of infection and death in elderly homes, where more than half of the country’s Covid-19 deaths have occurred. In Norway and the others, this isn't the case. Ireland has had a far more comparable ratio of infection clusters in elderly homes. But rather more relevantly than that, my post is comparing Sweden to Ireland because this is a thread on an Irish forum, about Sweden, where most of the discussion has centered on comparing their approach to ours.
Theres nothing remotely misleading about the deaths per million statistics - they speak for themselves.
Its a very clear "success rate". Sweden's approach has worked better than Irelands.
And has done far, far less economic damage in the process
meaning its going to save a lot more lives in the long run when it comes to things like deaths of despair, economic damage related suicides, healthcare funding in 2 years time for cancer treatments etc.
Though it is true, its worth noting that the Danish, Finnish and Norwegians have all also been massively more successful than the Irish government has been, too. And this despite them all having looser lockdowns than us. Businesses, schools etc have all already started to reopen there. Theres probably enough material there for another comparison thread, too.
IAMAMORON wrote: » It is hard not to be guarded given how successful they have been all things considered. But it is apparent that the virus has not been spreading as aggressively as anticipated, which is brilliant news for the Swedish people. I am always worried of " I told you so" posts also. We will not be witnessing the real fallout of this pandemic for months and months. The longer the pandemic goes on the more issues will arise. One item that is rarely spoken about in the Swedish out break is the lack of spread in its' other cities such as Malmo and Gothenburg. For example in Stockholm they have suffered almost 1,400 deaths. Compare that with Vastra Gotaland ( Gothenburg and surrounding) with 176 deaths. The figures are substantially different based on population levels. If you take the Stockholm figures in isolation ( oops ) their numbers do not look so smug.
Blut2 wrote: » Sweden now (data up to April 28th) has fewer deaths per million people than Ireland (and plenty of other countries). So much for all the doom & gloom types in this thread predicting an apocalypse there. The more time that goes by the more vindicated the Swedish approach is being proven. They're achieving better results than Ireland, while only suffering a fraction of the economic damage.
[Deleted User] wrote: » Why are you comparing them to Ireland and not the neighbours they share a border with, i.e. Denmark, Finland & Norway?
wakka12 wrote: » Wow thats shocking, Stockholm is only like 15-20% of Sweden's population. 1400 deaths in a city of 1.6 million is not good. In fact its really bad, and verging on Lombardy, New York and Madrid numbers where about 0.1% of those regions have died.
jesus_thats_gre wrote: » As an advocate of the approach, would you mind sharing what Sweden have done to achieve this lower death rate than Ireland? More specifically, what can we copy in order to improve our situation?
Del Griffith wrote: » “Once you get into a lockdown, it’s difficult to get out of it,” the country’s state epidemiologist, Anders Tegnell, said. “How do you reopen? When?”https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/world/europe/sweden-coronavirus-herd-immunity.html
STB. wrote: » Tegnell has no credibility. The headline Should have read, "Once you choose to embrace unknown herd immunity policies, it’s difficult to admit you were wrong". He has led his country down a road that will be difficult to come back from. Sweden's deaths have went from 239 on 1 April to 2,355 deaths as of now. And they still refuse to do anything. Their only saving grace that the figures are not even higher is that 50% of Stockholm ignored him and self isolated or worked from home. The death rate in Sweden has now risen significantly higher than many other countries in Europe, reaching more than 22 per 100,000 people. Denmark is 7 per 100,000 people. Norway and Finland less than 4 per 100k. The Czech Republic has the same population as Sweden and have 223 deaths vs Sweden's 2,355. TEN times the death rate. The difference in employing control measures over deploying daft policies of herd immunity are evident at this stage, and if you believe otherwise you are living in Cloud Cuckoo land. When other countries are opening back up, Sweden will be shutting down. Eitherway, countless unnecessary deaths will have occurred in favour of economics.
wakka12 wrote: » I was initially very sceptical of the Swedish approach, but unfortunately all that criticism of Swedish death rates above can also be said of Ireland which has a higher death rate but has been in lock down for weeks. So where does that leave us
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