How will schools be able to go back in September?

PowerToWait wrote: »

That’s exactly what it is. Not glorified either. Just get some exasperated parents on side for getting the kids out of the house for a few hours. Might as well send them to an early summer camp.

Nail on the head for certainly I few I know, they have it in their heads the children will be going back to school soon.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

The real question is how will people head back to work if there are no schools, creches, preschools open? No option for family/grandparent childcare either.

Childcare and education are a huge part of the economy and shouldn't be underestimated, front line healthcare workers and essential workers already struggling with this aspect at the moment.

The economy can't hope to restart if anyone who has young kids can't return to work.

PowerToWait

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Glorified child minding if that is the plan they are going with.

That’s exactly what it is. Not glorified either. Just get some exasperated parents on side for getting the kids out of the house for a few hours. Might as well send them to an early summer camp.

PowerToWait

I was starting to have a begrudging respect for Harris and Varadkar. That’s no longer the case since these kite flying stunts.

They are willing to undo all the hardship of isolation and cocooning simply to get the equivalent of a few likes.

If I was a teacher I would be really pissed at being asked to supervise a load of socially immature kids who really can’t be expected to understand the concepts of distancing in the context of the classroom. Never mind 60 odd teachers in a staff room.

It’s a completely dumb idea with zero thought as Varadkar made clear last night when he expressed his hope that principals would devise clever ways to adhere to physical distancing. It’s simply not going to happen.

JDD wrote: »

I think we have to accept that social distancing with young kids simply won't happen.

If it can't happen, it shouldn't be done. It's that simple.

Anyway a whole heap of things need to be put in place before we even contemplate reopening schools for all age groups, even limited openings.

Actually understanding the virus being the main one.

Japan opened early, now their emergency medical systems has failed.

jimmytwotimes 2013

mloc123 wrote: »

Most already are already in that boat... unlike teachers, who are on paid time off now for 6 weeks already.

We've not been off but you already know that

JDD

Ray Donovan wrote: »

In most Irish primary schools it is impossible to fit 10 students in the room and adhere to social distancing regualtions.

I think we have to accept that social distancing with young kids simply won't happen. While you can spread the desks out, they will end up hugging a classmate, or coughing onto a shared table, or not washing their hands properly. It's the keeping it to 10 kids a day per classroom, and restricting the days, that will minimize the risk of infections spreading. However we can only minimize the risk so much, and that has to be accepted.

Boggles wrote: »

Like I said we have heard words like "hope" and "aspire" for the past 5-6 weeks.

They are no where near the required level of testing or method of testing to open up any sustained gathering safely.

Like he said last night, the more they open things up, the more the virus will spread, the more services will be stretched.

So looking at where we are now (complete lockdown) and trying to apply to 4 weeks away is impossible.

It will take 2-4 weeks to realize if any openings have gone "bad" as is.

Opening up the likes of schools without the data or ability to test would be wreckless in the extreme.

Get the systems setup, then talk about opening.

False hope or off the cuff opinions leads to complacency, which leads to deaths.

I know, they won't be opening IMO

Augeo wrote: »

He also said he's hoping it will be further ramped up by May 05th.
Opening schools won't happen in the initial easing, IMO.

Ray Donovan

JDD wrote: »

I disagree with that. I think it would be of significant educational benefit. I am not a primary school teacher, and there's a good reason why you have to go to university for four years to become one. For something as simple as teaching my child how to write the cursive letter j there are a number of steps that have to be gone through. There's pencil control, there's a song, there's a letter formation rhyme, there's a direction the stroke on the page must go, there's making the letter out of playdough, there's practicing it on a whiteboard, and that's just a teeny tiny part of what they learn each week. There's only so much guidance that can be uploaded onto apps before both parent and child become overwhelmed. Even if the four hours in school provides them with some structure, some overview of what they need to practice that week, that would be of enormous benefit to them - and to me as their teacher for the foreseeable.

10 kids in a classroom one a day a week for four to six weeks is the absolute minimum we could ask schools to do, with the alternative being that we keep schools closed until September. I know that my kids would benefit enormously from those four days - even if it is only to wear their uniform, see some of their friends and do a small amount of work with their teacher.

In most Irish primary schools it is impossible to fit 10 students in the room and adhere to social distancing regualtions.

JDD

So realistically your child will be in school 6 days (at most) between then and the end of June. As you said the risk v reward is way too loaded on the risk side to make this in anyway the right thing to do. It will be also be of practically no benefit to your child's education.

I disagree with that. I think it would be of significant educational benefit. I am not a primary school teacher, and there's a good reason why you have to go to university for four years to become one. For something as simple as teaching my child how to write the cursive letter j there are a number of steps that have to be gone through. There's pencil control, there's a song, there's a letter formation rhyme, there's a direction the stroke on the page must go, there's making the letter out of playdough, there's practicing it on a whiteboard, and that's just a teeny tiny part of what they learn each week. There's only so much guidance that can be uploaded onto apps before both parent and child become overwhelmed. Even if the four hours in school provides them with some structure, some overview of what they need to practice that week, that would be of enormous benefit to them - and to me as their teacher for the foreseeable.

10 kids in a classroom one a day a week for four to six weeks is the absolute minimum we could ask schools to do, with the alternative being that we keep schools closed until September. I know that my kids would benefit enormously from those four days - even if it is only to wear their uniform, see some of their friends and do a small amount of work with their teacher.

lawred2

jrosen wrote: »

Maybe it would be best to close the schools now, (end of april?)allow the teachers and staff and departments to work out and plan how they can come back in September.
Teachers can spend the remainder of the 2020 school year planning out their lessons, working though kinks in the systems, working with distant learning and also classroom.

Allow the teachers to work behind the scenes so come September we can have some sort of return to school where everyone knows what is expected, what the expectations are.
We also need to know what teachers cant and wont return to the classroom. Realistically there could be a decent % of teachers who wont be able to return for health reasons.

Right now we are getting a thrown together attempt ay distance learning. There are some schools doing well and others not, some kids engaged some not.

Maybe.

But the reality is that a lot of teachers would simply see it as the start of their holidays.

Ray Donovan

Deleted User wrote: »

I think schools should just remain closed until September. High risk vs low reward bringing them back now.
Social distancing is never going to work in schools anyways.
What we really need is to ensure the elders cocoon themselves.

Let's logically examine the best case scenario here:

Primary Schools reopen at the earliest Monday May 18th. That leaves 6 weeks until Summer holidays.

So realistically your child will be in school 6 days (at most) between then and the end of June. As you said the risk v reward is way too loaded on the risk side to make this in anyway the right thing to do. It will be also be of practically no benefit to your child's education.

The reasons for doing it are optics - "Oh we're opening the primary schools, we're getting back to normal, well done to us" - The Government.

The Department will issue no concrete guidance and it will be up to individual schools to implement policies on Social Distancing as they see fit. It will be a nightmare for some schools.

If I was a principal of a primary school the policy I would implement would be non-compliance and continue to remote learning untill the end of June.

jrosen

There will be no data really for 2-3 weeks on how other countries have gotten on with their relaxing of restrictions. We are well placed to see what others are doing, see whats working and whats not.

Augeo wrote: »

He also said he's hoping it will be further ramped up by May 05th.
Opening schools won't happen in the initial easing, IMO.

Like I said we have heard words like "hope" and "aspire" for the past 5-6 weeks.

They are no where near the required level of testing or method of testing to open up any sustained gathering safely.

Like he said last night, the more they open things up, the more the virus will spread, the more services will be stretched.

So looking at where we are now (complete lockdown) and trying to apply to 4 weeks away is impossible.

It will take 2-4 weeks to realize if any openings have gone "bad" as is.

Opening up the likes of schools without the data or ability to test would be wreckless in the extreme.

Get the systems setup, then talk about opening.

False hope or off the cuff opinions leads to complacency, which leads to deaths.

I think schools should just remain closed until September. High risk vs low reward bringing them back now.
Social distancing is never going to work in schools anyways.
What we really need is to ensure the elders cocoon themselves.

Boggles wrote: »

Testing capacity has been moved into care homes.

We do not have the capacity to rapidly test in the community, which is a requirement of opening things like schools up.

That is not my opinion, that is what the leader of country stated last night.

He also said he's hoping it will be further ramped up by May 05th.
Opening schools won't happen in the initial easing, IMO.

mirrorwall14

Parent and second level teacher here. I’m not sure I would want to send my junior infant child into the pictures coming in from Denmark. When my brother visited before this lock down and had to stay outside the window and not hug him or come close he was devastated and bawled his eyes out. His behaviour dropped a lot for the next few days as it really upset him. I think the proposed set up of seeing some of his class one/some days a week and maybe even a different teacher would just be a disaster for him and totally unfair. His teacher is playing a blinder as it is with kids at home but videos up every morning on dojo, loads of links and plenty of work but lots of advice that it’s fine if it doesn’t get done

The reality here is almost all of it doesn’t get done because I have two kids with me and I’m teaching my second level kids from home. But i make time for him to watch the daily Roll call video and the fuaim ones every day because he enjoys them. We’re hit or miss apart from that but he’s getting tons of outside time and free drawing and I throw worksheets for pencil control at him when I can.

Honestly my biggest concern is a half hearted half baked plan and a ‘let the schools figure out how to do it themselves’ attitude. Which wouldn’t be unexpected as that’s pretty much the current set up. If they try and bring in the LC using all of us to teach them by splitting them, then all my other year groups suffer because I can’t get stuff up online/get corrections done. There’s an awful lot to be weighed up on what the ‘best’ procedure is

JDD wrote: »

I completely understand anyone who might want to keep their children out of school until September - that is completely their prerogative and different families will have different risk appetites for this infection.

I am hoping that if they do reopen schools ahead of the Summer that they don't make attendance compulsory though I am prepared to defend our own position if necessary.

JDD

I'm not in the least dissing the teachers that are off at the moment. Our primary school has set up distance learning through an app, where homework is uploaded each morning and submitted to the teacher for review. I got my five year old to submit some homework when we got some quiet time around 6pm yesterday, and her junior infants teacher uploaded comments at 10pm last night. And I know her teacher has very young kids herself.

It's not a case of opening the schools because we are paying teachers so they should be forced to work. It's not a case that opening schools is some sort of Machiavellian experiment on school kids and teachers to see how many might become infected. It's a case that we have to return to some sort of normality, even if that is only with schools being open two days a week, because a vaccine may well be two years away. We have to learn to live alongside the virus, in the knowledge that opening schools WILL increase the level of infection in the community, and in the full understanding that they may well close again if the level of infections gets too high.

I completely understand anyone who might want to keep their children out of school until September - that is completely their prerogative and different families will have different risk appetites for this infection.

Augeo wrote: »

I'm similar with my Dad, might chance a trip to the gate as you suggest when long spins are permitted. Although as someone based in the East I'm not sure how socially acceptable trips around the country will be.

We actually own the house next to my Mum. It was my Grandparents'. So, technically a "holiday home".
I really want to be able for all of us to drive there, stay there a few nights, see Mum even at a social distance and come back home again.
Am hoping for enough easing of restrictions to achieve this at some point over the Summer. Accept that this may be wishful thinking.

jrosen wrote: »

Maybe it would be best to close the schools now, (end of april?)allow the teachers and staff and departments to work out and plan how they can come back in September.
Teachers can spend the remainder of the 2020 school year planning out their lessons, working though kinks in the systems, working with distant learning and also classroom.

Allow the teachers to work behind the scenes so come September we can have some sort of return to school where everyone knows what is expected, what the expectations are.
We also need to know what teachers cant and wont return to the classroom. Realistically there could be a decent % of teachers who wont be able to return for health reasons.

Right now we are getting a thrown together attempt ay distance learning. There are some schools doing well and others not, some kids engaged some not.

This.

BanditLuke

Don't get me wrong i'd love to see it happen if it was safe (have two kids here myself) but at present i can't for the life of me see how it would work. For a start our average class sizes here are huge compared to properly functioning education systems like Denmark whilst there is a large percentage of classes that take place in portacabins not proper classrooms and these are not fit for purpose.

Then you have the pie in the sky idea of kids social distancing which just isn't going to happen as you'll know if you've ever observed kids in a school environment. The schools would literally have to hire extra cleaners to conduct deep cleans after hours and also constantly wiping down handles, tables, doors, toilet facilities etc..throughout the day.

jrosen

Maybe it would be best to close the schools now, (end of april?)allow the teachers and staff and departments to work out and plan how they can come back in September.
Teachers can spend the remainder of the 2020 school year planning out their lessons, working though kinks in the systems, working with distant learning and also classroom.

Allow the teachers to work behind the scenes so come September we can have some sort of return to school where everyone knows what is expected, what the expectations are.
We also need to know what teachers cant and wont return to the classroom. Realistically there could be a decent % of teachers who wont be able to return for health reasons.

Right now we are getting a thrown together attempt ay distance learning. There are some schools doing well and others not, some kids engaged some not.

CinemaGuy45

Ray Donovan wrote: »

Ya they are on full pay. Because they are working remotely.

SOME are however that is beside the point when the experts recommend a return to school teachers and children just need to get on with things.

Ray Donovan

CinemaGuy45 wrote: »

Nonsense the lockdown was about slowing spread not stopping it.
People will need to go back to work and children will need to be back in school.

Teachers are on full pay at the moment they need to just get on with it.

This lockdown has come at an enormous cost we can not wait forever.

Ya they are on full pay. Because they are working remotely.

CinemaGuy45

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yes agreed. As they have played a long game and schools were first to close I am fairly sure they will be amongst last back and therefore September. They would be a breeding ground for Covid. No social distancing can happen in schools with young children so it would be using our children and their families as an experiment.

Nonsense the lockdown was about slowing spread not stopping it.
People will need to go back to work and children will need to be back in school.

Teachers are on full pay at the moment they need to just get on with it.

This lockdown has come at an enormous cost we can not wait forever.

Augeo wrote: »

Testing has now ramped up, no more tests sent to Germany.

Testing capacity has been moved into care homes.

We do not have the capacity to rapidly test in the community, which is a requirement of opening things like schools up.

That is not my opinion, that is what the leader of country stated last night.

I'm similar with my Dad, might chance a trip to the gate as you suggest when long spins are permitted. Although as someone based in the East I'm not sure how socially acceptable trips around the country will be.

At this stage I would like to just see her in person even at a social distance. We live 3.5 hours drive from her.