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School not using Video Conferencing but lashing out the homework

AmberGold

I have three children under 12, none of their schools are taking the opportunity to avail of the latest technology to provide lessons.

Given WhatsApp, Teams and Zoom etc are free this is disappointing as all we seem to have is teachers flinging homework over the wall & lots of it at that.

I appreciate teachers have their own children to look after but an hour or two a day wouldn’t be too much to ask.

Is this unique to the schools my children attend or are our educators missing a trick, I’m thinking about contacting the principal of the school to voice my concern.

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completedit

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Our educational systems aren't that important, they actually do a very bad job of preparing kids for adulthood, and rote learning is a truly dreadful method of teaching as it only tests memory, only one aspect of intelligence and learning. We really need to stop harassing kids with all this homework nonsense, and teach them valuable life skills instead. I have great pity on exam kids this year, with even more stress on their shoulders with this whole leaving nonsense

Education is the sum of its parts. What are the life skills you want to give them? How to pay bills? How to buy a house? (I just always see these type or comments under Joe Rogan videos) Seems to completely miss the point. Education provides kids with skills that are hard to quantify because we take it as a given that they will have them. Our education system give kids the skills they need to have the best chance to survive in our environment.

The problem I have with the educational system but it's more how life is set up, is that we are meant to have stuff figured out far too soon.

Wanderer78

RobAMerc wrote:

teachers do massively important work and we as parents are very much indebted to them and the fantastic effort they put in. Remember even missing a week is detrimental to our children's lives and future prospects - thats why I think its fantastic that the teachers are considering canceling the summer holidays and bringing the children back to school for June, July and August in lieu of the time they are not teaching now. It truely shows how much they value themselves and their own work, and the sacrifice they are willing to make to make up for it.

Our educational systems aren't that important, they actually do a very bad job of preparing kids for adulthood, and rote learning is a truly dreadful method of teaching as it only tests memory, only one aspect of intelligence and learning. We really need to stop harassing kids with all this homework nonsense, and teach them valuable life skills instead. I have great pity on exam kids this year, with even more stress on their shoulders with this whole leaving nonsense

gnf_ireland

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If I go back to school, then my toddler will go back to the childminder and she will be on her own with the newborn.

And thanks for the suggestions on how to do my job! Let me know what you do and I'll give you a few suggestions on how you could improve your output! That's a joke but I think it cuts to the heart of the matter - nearly everyone thinks they know how to teach but only those who do know how different it is from the perceptions people have.

As for the messages, yes, I record myself doing the challenges I set them (build a fort, help out at home, PE, keep uppies) and put them up on Dojo with a few appearances from my toddler and the kids love to see it.

No I don’t think that was a joke. But unlike my job, parents are the child’s primary educators and we are carrying the bulk of the load at the moment. These are unprecedented times and we all need to work together.

But teachers always seem to have a chip on their shoulder about feedback. It’s like no one knows anything about a child’s education but them and their way (despite every teacher being different) is the best. Every employee of every company has performance reviews each year and feedback is always provided and suggestions made about how things could be done differently. There is absolutely no need to be defensive when someone makes a suggestion.

But to be fair, you appear to be doing your best so well done for that. Compared to my senior infants teacher of a weekly email and that’s it - it’s a world apart.

My suggestion on recording came from the fact most senior infants cannot read fluently yet and therefore voice would make a massive difference to them. But hey, what do I know about my child !!

RobAMerc

teachers do massively important work and we as parents are very much indebted to them and the fantastic effort they put in. Remember even missing a week is detrimental to our children's lives and future prospects - thats why I think its fantastic that the teachers are considering canceling the summer holidays and bringing the children back to school for June, July and August in lieu of the time they are not teaching now. It truely shows how much they value themselves and their own work, and the sacrifice they are willing to make to make up for it.

[Deleted User]

gnf_ireland wrote: »

What happens in 3 weeks time if you have to go back to work ? Your wife is on her own then. Believe it or not, parents have challenges too and everyone has to get on with it

No one is bashing teachers who are trying their genuine best. People are rightly frustrated that some teachers feel that sending an email once a week and radio silence after that constitutes support or engagement with kids.

No one expects infants to be taught over zoom. No one is that silly. But as a suggestion, maybe have a zoom call (no video) with the class some day this week and sing a song or two and so whatever else is natural for the classroom. 15 minutes to show the kids you are still there and not something Mammy or Daddy reads from an email. Or maybe record a short 30 second message that mentions their name and how hard they are trying

Especially with infants - it’s not about the work, it’s about the engagement. Parents can access reading and writing material online. What they cannot replace is the relationship between the teacher and child. And in many cases, this is missing right now.

No one is saying teaching is like working in a company. But in these time’s everyone needs to adapt and everyone is understanding of those making an effort. I would happily take your level of engagement over my teachers single email a week and radio silence after that - funnily enough for senior infants as well.

The last line of that note this week said “an don’t forget RTE classroom is back from Monday” - despite the fact the content is not directed towards infant classes !!

Well done for trying, but remember there are those who are making no effort and that’s where people’s distraction is directed towards

If I go back to school, then my toddler will go back to the childminder and she will be on her own with the newborn.

And thanks for the suggestions on how to do my job! Let me know what you do and I'll give you a few suggestions on how you could improve your output! That's a joke but I think it cuts to the heart of the matter - nearly everyone thinks they know how to teach but only those who do know how different it is from the perceptions people have.

As for the messages, yes, I record myself doing the challenges I set them (build a fort, help out at home, PE, keep uppies) and put them up on Dojo with a few appearances from my toddler and the kids love to see it.

gnf_ireland

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Male senior infants teacher here. I have an eight week old and an 18 month old at home but I am still trying to keep the show on the road and the kids engaged. I mostly work very early in the morning, late at night or during nap time.

I use a system called Class Dojo to send out a PDF of their work for the week each Sunday night. I'm realistic and ask the parents to do what they can, and for the most part the parents are great and very engaged.

Then every morning I'll send out some resources and optional extra worksheets to complement the work. I'll also send out quizzes and fun tasks and challenges and ask the parents to send in pictures of the kids' work and activities and share them on the app so the kids can see each other at work. They send in pictures of their work and I'll give some feedback and encouragement. It helps to sustain the sense of being a class and there is lots of goodwill and great feedback.

As anyone who has ever taught young children will know, the thought of doing a live lesson on Zoom or Google classroom is just not feasible and would be a disaster. It would also not be fair on my wife to leave her alone with a tiny baby and a lively toddler.

Bashing teachers is a sport at this stage, but thinking that we should just be able to adapt and plough on as normal from home is wishful thinking. Teaching is not like working in an office or for a company. I've done both.

Teaching is immersive and tactile and in the younger years and to be honest at the moment what young children need mostly is a sense of engagement with school and their classmates, some sense of being together in this, more than live lessons or remote teaching. If teachers can provide support to parents and the children can continue to work in some way that is fun and engaging then that's as much as can be expected.

What happens in 3 weeks time if you have to go back to work ? Your wife is on her own then. Believe it or not, parents have challenges too and everyone has to get on with it

No one is bashing teachers who are trying their genuine best. People are rightly frustrated that some teachers feel that sending an email once a week and radio silence after that constitutes support or engagement with kids.

No one expects infants to be taught over zoom. No one is that silly. But as a suggestion, maybe have a zoom call (no video) with the class some day this week and sing a song or two and so whatever else is natural for the classroom. 15 minutes to show the kids you are still there and not something Mammy or Daddy reads from an email. Or maybe record a short 30 second message that mentions their name and how hard they are trying

Especially with infants - it’s not about the work, it’s about the engagement. Parents can access reading and writing material online. What they cannot replace is the relationship between the teacher and child. And in many cases, this is missing right now.

No one is saying teaching is like working in a company. But in these time’s everyone needs to adapt and everyone is understanding of those making an effort. I would happily take your level of engagement over my teachers single email a week and radio silence after that - funnily enough for senior infants as well.

The last line of that note this week said “an don’t forget RTE classroom is back from Monday” - despite the fact the content is not directed towards infant classes !!

Well done for trying, but remember there are those who are making no effort and that’s where people’s distraction is directed towards

Black_Knight

TheValeyard wrote: »

What you mean by this?

What I mean is don't concede defeat without even trying to help students remotely first. Using red tape and lack of policy to not bother.

[Deleted User]

Male senior infants teacher here. I have an eight week old and an 18 month old at home but I am still trying to keep the show on the road and the kids engaged. I mostly work very early in the morning, late at night or during nap time.

I use a system called Class Dojo to send out a PDF of their work for the week each Sunday night. I'm realistic and ask the parents to do what they can, and for the most part the parents are great and very engaged.

Then every morning I'll send out some resources and optional extra worksheets to complement the work. I'll also send out quizzes and fun tasks and challenges and ask the parents to send in pictures of the kids' work and activities and share them on the app so the kids can see each other at work. They send in pictures of their work and I'll give some feedback and encouragement. It helps to sustain the sense of being a class and there is lots of goodwill and great feedback.

As anyone who has ever taught young children will know, the thought of doing a live lesson on Zoom or Google classroom is just not feasible and would be a disaster. It would also not be fair on my wife to leave her alone with a tiny baby and a lively toddler.

Bashing teachers is a sport at this stage, but thinking that we should just be able to adapt and plough on as normal from home is wishful thinking. Teaching is not like working in an office or for a company. I've done both.

Teaching is immersive and tactile and in the younger years and to be honest at the moment what young children need mostly is a sense of engagement with school and their classmates, some sense of being together in this, more than live lessons or remote teaching. If teachers can provide support to parents and the children can continue to work in some way that is fun and engaging then that's as much as can be expected.

ILoveYourVibes

AmberGold wrote: »

I have three children under 12, none of their schools are taking the opportunity to avail of the latest technology to provide lessons.

Given WhatsApp, Teams and Zoom etc are free this is disappointing as all we seem to have is teachers flinging homework over the wall & lots of it at that.

I appreciate teachers have their own children to look after but an hour or two a day wouldn’t be too much to ask.

Is this unique to the schools my children attend or are our educators missing a trick, I’m thinking about contacting the principal of the school to voice my concern.

Same here only not school but a course I am doing.

splinter65

AmberGold wrote: »

So far I’ve heard

1 An argument about not streaming a class from a bedroom.

2. Another who wants the school to opened to stream from there.

Let’s face it we all have access to a laptop with a mic and speakers and broadband, beginning to sound like Garda not wanting to adopt the Pulse system.

Enjoy your break as you send out one or two emails a week to your respective classes.

I don’t have access to that.

maninasia

Teach30 wrote: »

When did I say I was afraid of noise?

I’ll interact in a professional manner not idle small talk.

You said you couldn't work because your parents are noisy. Fact is everybody has to adjust right now. Better done than not done. You think the rest of us working from home have it any better ?
Students need to be in contact with teachers, they don't want their teachers hiding away behind email.

Guy:Incognito

Coralcoras wrote: »

My husband is a teacher and currently working to upload work on google classroom using the family laptop. I absolutely oppose the notion of zoom. Where are me and my new baby going to go for the day? The bedroom? Ir should my husband present to his students from his bedroom???

Why not? Is your bedroom wall papered in porn or something? It could be any wall in the house , how would anyone on the chat know the difference?

Guy:Incognito

s1ippy wrote: »

Also Zoom's security breaches are troubling (the GAA Club porn incident and several others, a Google away)..

You obviously didnt google it too far, or even read this thread. That issue, as has been explained, was because the idiots posted the link to the session on their public facebook and twitter feeds.

sasta le

Coralcoras wrote: »

My husband is a teacher and currently working to upload work on google classroom using the family laptop. I absolutely oppose the notion of zoom. Where are me and my new baby going to go for the day? The bedroom? Ir should my husband present to his students from his bedroom???

Have ye only 2 rooms?

s1ippy

The Bishop Basher wrote: »

We obviously have different approaches to our work.

When something new needs to be done In work I’ll go figure it out myself. I don’t wait for someone to tell me how to figure it out because I’d be waiting forever and besides, that kind of lazy approach would be frowned upon.

This thread is enlightening. I can see now why my daughters teachers have done so little in 4 weeks.

They’re worried about the dodgy wallpaper in their bedroom along with umpteen other lame excuses.

It's not a competition for a gold star. You seem like you have some unbelievable chip on your shoulder and the way you attack another person, for taking time to reasonably explain why they would find it difficult to do the same things as you, shows a lack of empathy and understanding which are very bad characteristics in a teacher.

Our (special, primary) school has sent out an Internet safety policy which none of the parents have sent back signed which is why we can't proceed with video learning.

Also Zoom's security breaches are troubling (the GAA Club porn incident and several others, a Google away).

We send parents a list of recommended work each morning (handwriting, reading, grammar, tables, maths exercises, Arts Ed, SESE, PE), a mix of interactive and book work. Some of them will post photos of work on Google Classroom, which we correct and comment on.

Many of my colleagues live in apartments with others making noise/passing through, or don't have equipment/good Internet, so they aren't set up to do videos. I did a live video lesson early in the lockdown and this resulted in students overhearing the parents of one child screaming at each other in the background, so that had to be cancelled pretty early on.

Since management of our school brought in the policy document that needs signing, they tell me I can't upload recorded videos anymore as parents haven't agreed not to forward the videos. In fairness, even with the form signed, there's nothing to actually stop the kids taking videos of me and editing them or whatever. Although I would be surprised and probably impressed if they went to the bother.

The Bishop Basher

Teach30 wrote: »

Overall I’d like to point out that while it may seem that a teacher is doing very little you have no idea what is going on in their lives.

Everyone has things going on in their lives. Teachers aren’t special.

Honestly your posts read like a catalogue of flimsy excuses as to why you won’t bend an inch to adapt to this situation.

You say you have no data left on your broken phone and a bad case of eye strain yet you can post away on boards no problem at all.

The Bishop Basher

An Ri rua wrote: »

No they're not. Since when do employees have to do solo runs and figure things out? This is the remit of the Dept of Education. Catch yourself on.

We obviously have different approaches to our work.

When something new needs to be done In work I’ll go figure it out myself. I don’t wait for someone to tell me how to figure it out because I’d be waiting forever and besides, that kind of lazy approach would be frowned upon.

This thread is enlightening. I can see now why my daughters teachers have done so little in 4 weeks.

They’re worried about the dodgy wallpaper in their bedroom along with umpteen other lame excuses.

Teach30

maninasia wrote: »

Why are you a teacher if you are afraid of it interacting with students or working in a noisy environment?

When did I say I was afraid of noise?

I’ll interact in a professional manner not idle small talk.

Teach30

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

What difference does it make that the bit of wall behind you happens to be in the bedroom?

No one is saying put it in the corner so the whole room is visible and conduct any discussion while walking up and down the room.
They only need to see you from the chest up.

Right and have my mother roaring at me do I want my dinner/am I going to the shop now/will I answer the phone/what am I doing etc etc or their grandchildren running in on top of me - they have NO boundaries. I would actually be mortified for my students to see that living situation. I am not willing to risk it to be honest.

Overall I’d like to point out that while it may seem that a teacher is doing very little you have no idea what is going on in their lives.

I’m struggling as it is being at home caring for my elderly parents. The lack of contact with friends, the fact my wedding has been cancelled and I can’t see my fiance. My nerves are in shreds, I can’t sleep and I also have to worry about not getting in trouble for lack of internet access. When in reality I am trying my very best to stay on top of things but I feel like I’m sinking as I have no routine in my life.

Let me back in a classroom and I will gladly teach from there.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

gnf_ireland wrote: »

Not a chance this will happen ... and would be very unfair on those teachers doing their best right now

What I would like to see the unions propose is if primary schools cannot open in June, take summer holidays a month early and come back at the start of August. Give everyone a chance to get a proper workable solution in place

Secondary is tricky due to leaving cert

Yes that would be another good solution. They could align with the secondary schools to do the same (take May, June and July as summer holidays for secondary).

Mocks are held during normal school year and take the full exam format/set up, so no reason why leaving cert couldn't take place in August and everyone back to school come August as well, virus permitting of course.

If any 'extra' school weeks are undertaken as part of the solution then I'm sure it would be fair once teachers are paid for the extra time.
The unions won't have any clout given the circumstances.

Guy:Incognito

Teach30 wrote: »

No it’s the reality of my situation.

I’ll gladly take any suggestions as how to remedy the situation. If the school opened tomorrow I would willingly stream my teaching from there but I will not invite students into my bedroom - where I work from.

What difference does it make that the bit of wall behind you happens to be in the bedroom?

No one is saying put it in the corner so the whole room is visible and conduct any discussion while walking up and down the room.
They only need to see you from the chest up.

BonsaiKitten

Ricky Wonderful Addict wrote: »

Or instead of cutting the curriculum a decision is made to extend the school year this summer to make up for how many weeks have been missed.

Probably the best option, they'll have missed 5 weeks of actual school time (not including easter hols) come 5th of May so quite feasible to cut the school summer holidays by that much if the schools were in a position to reopen at that point.

Teachers would be due extra pay for summer in that case. The holidays are technically unpaid - the yearly wage just gets averaged out over 12 months.

I think gnf's idea is more plausible, there could be time for classes to transition to their new teacher then as well. That will be a big help for young primary classes.

touts

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

That's weird, as I am with 3. And often hotspot my phone to download and steam stuff in work

Go onto your 3 account and check the terms and conditions. This is specifically called out as a breach of the terms and they can charge you if they catch you. Many people get away with it but I'd say as usage increases with people streaming from home then the networks will be all over this and some whopping bills will be issued in the coming months.

gnf_ireland

maninasia wrote: »

Why are you a teacher if you are afraid of it interacting with students or working in a noisy environment?

Let’s try not make this personal !!

gnf_ireland

Ricky Wonderful Addict wrote: »

Or instead of cutting the curriculum a decision is made to extend the school year this summer to make up for how many weeks have been missed.

Probably the best option, they'll have missed 5 weeks of actual school time (not including easter hols) come 5th of May so quite feasible to cut the school summer holidays by that much if the schools were in a position to reopen at that point.

Not a chance this will happen ... and would be very unfair on those teachers doing their best right now

What I would like to see the unions propose is if primary schools cannot open in June, take summer holidays a month early and come back at the start of August. Give everyone a chance to get a proper workable solution in place

Secondary is tricky due to leaving cert

maninasia

Teach30 wrote: »

I wouldn’t have a 5 minute chat with students in school why would I want to chat with them over zoom? My personality type doesn’t suit “chatting” it’s not something I find easy. I can’t imagine I’m alone in this. In fact I can safely say I’d find chatting one on one very awkward, even if I had the technology for it.

Grand in school if it’s related to a piece of work or giving advice on work but a 5 minute casual conversation with a student is not realistic .

Why are you a teacher if you are afraid of it interacting with students or working in a noisy environment?

Guy:Incognito

LaLa2004 wrote: »

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/world-news/coronavirus/dublin-gaa-club-apologises-to-parents-after-kids-online-coaching-session-is-zoombombed-with-inappropriate-content-39103093.html

Here's one issue with Zoom, particularly when dealing with those under 18.

Thats a gob****e issue, not a zoom issue. They publicly posted the link to the session.

"The club had posted the access link to the online Zoom meeting on its own Facebook and Twitter accounts yesterday to give parents advance notice of the session."

gnf_ireland

Dylan94 wrote: »

Likely correct, and while I don't know how primary schools will deal with it. In secondary school there is a lot of room to cut the fat, and get directly into content that is necessary to complete for exams etc.

This is a potential disadvantage of online teaching as students from lower income families are less likely to be supporting them in their learning at this time, further disadvantaging the student. The more well off student with the time, resources and support will be further ahead and do better in exams.

The big gap between disadvantaged and others at this stage will be the effort, focus and support the parents put into their kids education at this time. Nothing really to do with money - it all goes back to time and prioritisation of education. Lower income families tend not to prioritise it as much and this ends up being reflected in the grades.

This is not new. When when I was in school a quarter century ago, the kids always done better academically if the parents prioritised education.

So yes, those who study during this period is likely to be reflected when their exams come around ... and will always have a head start on those that don’t

Charles Babbage

Coralcoras wrote: »

My husband is a teacher and currently working to upload work on google classroom using the family laptop. I absolutely oppose the notion of zoom. Where are me and my new baby going to go for the day? The bedroom? Ir should my husband present to his students from his bedroom???

It is worth noting that Zoom has a virtual background feature, which works well and is easy to use. So he can change his background to anything from a white wall to a tropical beach, he could even use a picture of the school classroom if he has one. So at least for Zoom there is no question of people seeing your house, if you do not want them to. That is not in itself a justification for Zoom.

ldy4mxonucwsq6

gnf_ireland wrote: »

But unless a decision is made to shorten the curriculum, the same material will need to be covered so the pace will have to be faster. Those students that have done little are likely to fall behind faster.

This issue does not end in June. It’s effect might still be evident in 2-3 years from an academic point of view

Or instead of cutting the curriculum a decision is made to extend the school year this summer to make up for how many weeks have been missed.

Probably the best option, they'll have missed 5 weeks of actual school time (not including easter hols) come 5th of May so quite feasible to cut the school summer holidays by that much if the schools were in a position to reopen at that point.