wakka12 wrote: » I really cant get my head around people claiming the mortality rate of this disease as being 0.1%. Have they looked around and seen whats going around in the world or? Theres been 13,000 deaths in NYC, a city of 8.3 million. Thats is 0.16% of the city population. So even if literally the entire population of NYC got this disease(which of course they did not) and nobody else dies from today on(which of course many will) it is impossible for the disease to be as mild as flu Similarly Lombardy, population 10 million, deaths 12,000, again 0.12% of the population of this region has already died from the virus
wakka12 wrote: » Well, theres a difference between WHO saying there is no immunity and no evidence yet of immunity
Breezin wrote: » Well worth it, thanks. What a reality check! I've embedded it so there's no avoiding it for lockdown lovers! Edit: not working. Don't know why Even though that right-wing, libertarian website would not be my style, I think the professor puts the case very clearly for the ultimate futility of the lockdown. Here's the summary: - UK policy on lockdown and other European countries are not evidence-based - The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only - This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a “by-product” - The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better - The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact - The paper was very much too pessimistic - Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway - The flattening of the curve is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown - The results will eventually be similar for all countries - Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people. - The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1% - At least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden will be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available
crashster wrote: » Worth listening to this interview. It will give you good insight into the Swedish approach and thinking. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/18/swedish_epidemiologist_johan_giesecke_why_lockdowns_are_the_wrong_policy.htmlIrish guy living in Stockholm with my missus and kids. starting to come around to this thinking if we're being honest.
dubrov wrote: » Most of his argument is based on the last two points yet he offers no evidence for it. He is as bad as those who say the Swedish made a massive mistake and are killing people. Based on current knowledge, no one knows what is the correct way to go. I'm sure the press will vilify those that took the wrong decision later whatever that may be.
thebaz wrote: » Given what WHO were saying yesterday, about probably no immunity after infection, in a months time we will know who had the right strategy - Swedens strategy is risky but if it works could be a game-changer and more questions will be asked of WHO leadership.
STB. wrote: » Well I can tell you that teaching a nurse how to become an Critical Care specialist can not be done online in a week. To even qualify for a Postgraduate Diploma in Nursing for Intensive Care Nursing, you must be recommended, have a minimum of six months of post-registration experience and at least 6 months experience in the speciality pathway. It takes two years to complete. Only the most experienced would be let near ICU, and still wouldn't know how to use essential equipment life saving equipment or learn it online. Staff have been moved around yes. That has been a requirement as so many staff are either sick or isolating through close contact with a colleague/patient. Healthcare workers are a quarter of all cases. One third of all Covid infected medical staff are nurses. There have been several deaths, two in St Lukes in the last couple of days. I know this as I have family actually that do these jobs.
Breezin wrote: » Well worth it, thanks. What a reality check! I've embedded it so there's no avoiding it for lockdown lovers! Edit: not working. Don't know why Even though that right-wing, libertarian website would not be my style, I think the professor puts the case very clearly for the ultimate futility of the lockdown. Here's the summary: - UK policy on lockdown and other European countries are not evidence-based - The correct policy is to protect the old and the frail only - This will eventually lead to herd immunity as a “by-product” - The initial UK response, before the “180 degree U-turn”, was better - The Imperial College paper was “not very good” and he has never seen an unpublished paper have so much policy impact - The paper was very much too pessimistic - Any such models are a dubious basis for public policy anyway - The flattening of the curve is due to the most vulnerable dying first as much as the lockdown - The results will eventually be similar for all countries - Covid-19 is a “mild disease” and similar to the flu, and it was the novelty of the disease that scared people.- The actual fatality rate of Covid-19 is the region of 0.1% - At least 50% of the population of both the UK and Sweden will be shown to have already had the disease when mass antibody testing becomes available
crashster wrote: » Worth listening to this interview. It will give you good insight into the Swedish approach and thinking. https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2020/04/18/swedish_epidemiologist_johan_giesecke_why_lockdowns_are_the_wrong_policy.html Irish guy living in Stockholm with my missus and kids. We're living in self imposed lock down for the last week's. Although starting to come around to this thinking if we're being honest.
jibber5000 wrote: » Accelerated online free courseshttps://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/ucc-and-ucd-to-give-free-course-to-help-more-nurses-treat-coronavirus-patients-989598.html Also Dr John Bates consultant anesthesist to rte radio 1https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thesun.ie/news/5232232/coronavirus-in-ireland-icu-consultant-beds-nurses-capacity/amp/ "He said they are not going to get as many nurses as are needed so they "are redeploying nurses who have comparable skills to critical care. We are using this time to upskill them." Putting something in Bold doesn't make it true.
Turtwig wrote: » i) ii) Every country and society is different. Swedes approach is different. If it works it's not necessarily a game changer. Their society and demographics are suitably different. To infer such an approach could work here, or elsewhere, would be a very risky assumption.
Att vara en hest wrote: » You see that little thing that says [source] ?? That's the source.. Follow the link and it will lead to FHM's own dashboard.. The raw data of which you can find right here:https://www.arcgis.com/sharing/rest/content/items/b5e7488e117749c19881cce45db13f7e/data The very same excel sheet screenshotted just a few posts up... How much further are you going to drag this ? Again.. Worldometer reports deaths as they are REPORTED without accounting for when deaths actually occured.
Turtwig wrote: » i) WHO aren't saying probably no immunity.
charlie14 wrote: » Unless you are looking at a different wordometer than I am, when I scroll down to updates it is showing the figures for deaths by date I have stated 130 for 16th., 67 for 17th. and 111 for the 18th.
STB. wrote: » I know its false. Source for all of your made up shít please .
Att vara en hest wrote: » I don't understand what you're arguing.. Literraly all you need to do on worldometer and go down to the actual source to see the same data posted earlier. The charts on worldometer does not reflect when death occurred, only when it was reported. The source is FHM, the department of public health. Their data is the most correct one as it does go back and add deaths when they actually happened.
jibber5000 wrote: » Reference made was to the posters belief that patients would not be sent to ICU based on official incapacity statistics. That is a lie. All I pointed out that in Ireland a portion of nurses have been upskilled the last two months to deal with ICU patients. Do you think that is False? You've completely contradicted yourself. There are more healthcare workers infected than those in nursing homes. Yet the 70 times more nursing home patients over healthcare stuff have died. Of course id be more concerned if I was an elderly nursing home resident.
[Deleted User] wrote: » It's not easy to prone a patient/ tube them though. I'm sure they are trying to train more nurses up but if we do reach ICU capacity and have to use theatres. This will effect the mortality rate in a negative way.
sydthebeat wrote: » the source is actually the same .. the FHM from the same source charlie:upload photo album looks like it is very well under control in sweden.
charlie14 wrote: » If as you say there is a huge drop off in cases reported at weekends, then surely that would not auger well for the worldometer Saturday 18th figure of 111 deaths, or the Friday 16th. figure of 130.
coastwatch wrote: » Good news for Stockholm, Sweden and everywhere else if it turns out to be trueParts of Sweden could achieve 'herd immunity' next month, leading doctor says Dr Anders Tegnell says immunity in Stockholm is 'having an effect' on virushttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8233783/Sweden-herd-immunity-month-claims-infectious-diseases-chief.html
whippet wrote: » I have family living in rural Sweden and they are disgusted with the Swedish approach ... the Swedish mentality is that they are smart enough to be able to function as normal and not spread the infection ! It stems from the swede’s culture of generally being very antisocial at the best of times and a condescending view of other cultures. While my relatives can self isolate and minimise the number of times they have to shop for essentials they still have to send the kids to school. There is a growing number of People in Sweden who don’t agree with the government’s approach.
Att vara en hest wrote: » As has been repeated multiple times in this thread already.. Worldometer's charts only accounts for when deaths were REPORTED, that's why you see huge drops at weekends... FHM's raw data and dashboard shows deaths they they OCCURRED. This makes a huge difference due to the way number of deaths are being reported from Sweden. If you look at the actual source data and charts from the real official source you'd see this.
STB. wrote: » For someone who claims to work in a hospital, you should understand the specialised levels required to deal with ICU patients nevermind the training required to use ventilators alone you wouldn't have posted such nonsense. How to cope with the trauma isn't something learned on the fly either. Perhaps you will have more time for your colleagues the next time you are wheeling patients around." You should be more concerned about the contractions by medical staff, if you are hospital staff. They account for a high percentage of our infections.
