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How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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kenmc

Unless creches\afterschools also open up at the same time as primary schools, most parents won't be able to resume "normal" work anyway, since they'll need to collect the kids at 1or2pm after school finishes and bring them home.
And if afterschools do open up at the same time then that compounds the problem further as now you have kids from different schools mixing too, so any infection now goes from one class or school to several, including the after-school.

khalessi

For the leaving certs I saw they left social distancing, planning to a local level - nightmare.

I really hope they have thought about this and it isnt just some half assed plan. Think about co opting other public buildings.

Like I said earlier, even if they open one day a week how do they split classes? If they bring groups in everday, will they be split enough, a max of 6 students, a teacher and an sna (still too many in one room)? Will teachers be teaching and planning for the split group while teaching and planning for group they are teaching?

There are just over 1 million children in primary and secondary school

Will teachers be given ppe?

R11

gnf_ireland wrote: »

Maybe they are proposing 1 day a week for students but 3-4 days a week for teachers. Split the classes into 3 or 4 groups and bring in a group each day - so numbers are down from ~30 to 8 per class per day.

But then we teach the same thing 4 days a week and make very little progress. Plus both my kids are in primary also and my childminder will not be taking kids until there's a vaccine or anti viral medication.... So how do I look after my kids on the days they're not in and both of us are working??

khalessi

They have coopted hotels for hospitals.

Can they also use other buildings for schools to decrease size of classrooms?

Even this could problemtic in areas where there are a high number of schools as there wont be enough public buildings?

wirelessdude01

khalessi wrote: »

Will teachers be given ppe?

Will we hell. It'll be left up to individual schools to fend for themselves. I would want a full face guard for my class.

khalessi

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Will we hell. It'll be left up to individual schools to fend for themselves. I would want a full face guard for my class.

Ditto. I have masks and will wear them especially if thats the total plan? FFS

Actually I think I would refuse to teach if no ppe

scooby77

Haven't access to full article, but would guess he's thinking aloud/kite flying. However it does indicate they're aiming for some sort of reopening this year.
With one day a week (for children obviously-staff be in 5) one could keep children apart, in effect dividing each class by 5. Difficult logistically, but we'd manage it...needs must.(Primary)
Educationally would be better than nothing.
However it wouldn't be of huge benefit to working parents (I referenced childcare aspect in an earlier post).
Alternative thinking is required though, and it's good that they're putting options on the table.
As teachers ( and principals) we should be constructive in analysis, and suggesting our own ideas ( I've suggested regional opening here, and elsewhere, previously)

R11

scooby77 wrote: »

Haven't access to full article, but would guess he's thinking aloud/kite flying. However it does indicate they're aiming for some sort of reopening this year.
With one day a week (for children obviously-staff be in 5) one could keep children apart, in effect dividing each class by 5. Difficult logistically, but we'd manage it...needs must.(Primary)
Educationally would be better than nothing.
However it wouldn't be of huge benefit to working parents (I referenced childcare aspect in an earlier post).
Alternative thinking is required though, and it's good that they're putting options on the table.
As teachers ( and principals) we should be constructive in analysis, and suggesting our own ideas ( I've suggested regional opening here, and elsewhere, previously)

How would break times work??Do we demand social distancing? How do we tell that to infants who love nothing more than playing with their friends?Do we wipe every surface/book/paint brush/crayon/PE equipment/toilet seat etc after use? Difficult logistically???Its impossible to adhere to the health guidelines. I honestly would love to be back at work but we can't let schools be used as guinea pigs and risk infection rates rocketting up. Yes,creative thinking is required but public health should be priority.

wirelessdude01

R11 wrote: »

How would break times work??Do we demand social distancing? How do we tell that to infants who love nothing more than playing with their friends?Do we wipe every surface/book/paint brush/crayon/PE equipment/toilet seat etc after use? Difficult logistically???Its impossible to adhere to the health guidelines. I honestly would love to be back at work but we can't let schools be used as guinea pigs and risk infection rates rocketting up. Yes,creative thinking is required but public health should be priority.

The trying to enforce social distancing whenever and in whatever format we go back is what frightens me. Kids and ourselves are social creatures so can't see them keeping apart.

starbaby2003

khalessi wrote: »

Ditto. I have masks and will wear them especially if thats the total plan? FFS

Actually I think I would refuse to teach if no ppe

Do you share the same concerns for bus drivers, shop workers etc
I think teachers should be given the choice but those who chose not to work should have to claim the covid payment.

Sierra Oscar

BabysCoffee wrote: »

I think this is unlikely

Looks like they're still pushing for some sort of limited reopening in May.

khalessi

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Do you share the same concerns for bus drivers, shop workers etc
I think teachers should be given the choice but those who chose not to work should have to claim the covid payment.

I do as everyone is entitled to safety, cashiers got spit screens. bus drivers got the plastic screen. They should all be provided with safety. Do you think teachers should be?

starbaby2003

khalessi wrote: »

I do as everyone is entitled to safety, cashiers got spit screens. bus drivers got the plastic screen. They should all be provided with safety. Do you think teachers should be?

Yes if they request it of course. I never said they shouldn’t. I said teachers who refuse to teach should get the covid payment. What is the problem with that ? I would not think it as necessary for me to wear PPE. I don’t feel I am at risk nor is anyone in my home. Honestly you sound neurotic at the moment. All you are doing is posting on boards non stop. You should really consider a break from social media.

khalessi

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Yes if they request it of course. I never said they shouldn’t. I said teachers who refuse to teach should get the covid payment. What is the problem with that ? I would not think it as necessary for me to wear PPE. I don’t feel I am at risk nor is anyone in my home. Honestly you sound neurotic at the moment. All you are doing is posting on boards non stop. You should really consider a break from social media.

Thank you for your concern. Normally people read posts in the tone they would post them and I am not being neurotic at all.

I have PPe and will use it and will teach.

Regardless of what I sound like.

All I am asking is for schools to be opened safely for the children, colleagues me and my kids no more then anyone else posting.

You are lucky no one is at risk in your home. I have a home with CF cancer and other lung conditions in it but everyone is different

Sammy2012

Okay theres a few problems here. Firstly from my own person situation I have one primary child and one in creche. Currently husband is working from home but I assume once this stage passed he will return to work. I would usually have no problem going to work as my parents would mind the kids. But now unfortunately they are both in the vulnerable category as they cannot. So what would happen to my kids when I was in work?

Secondly in relation to school. My classroom was built in the 1960s. There is no hot water in my room. It is around 8m x 8m so I would only be able to take in maybe 4 children along with myself. I have a class of 28. Some with asthma and other ailments. The children share toilets with 60 other children. 4 stalls for each gender. The children will have to stay away from each other on the yard. This will be very hard to do altho if they only could play with the children from their classroom that might be a way around that. The school would have to be fully disinfected each day. Someone mentioned above that if teachers refuse to go back they should have to claim the 350 which is unfair on teachers who might like to go to work but would be in the high risk category.

This one day a week return will not help families get back to work. It will cause a logistical nightmare for parents. Who is going to collect them at 1.30.or 2.30 if there is no afterschool care available? Or if they have to stay away from grandparents?

starbaby2003

Sammy2012 wrote: »

Okay theres a few problems here. Firstly from my own person situation I have one primary child and one in creche. Currently husband is working from home but I assume once this stage passed he will return to work. I would usually have no problem going to work as my parents would mind the kids. But now unfortunately they are both in the vulnerable category as they cannot. So what would happen to my kids when I was in work?

Secondly in relation to school. My classroom was built in the 1960s. There is no hot water in my room. It is around 5m x 5m so I would only be able to take in maybe 4 children along with myself. I have a class of 28. Some with asthma and other ailments. The children share toilets with 60 other children. 4 stalls for each gender. The children will have to stay away from each other on the yard. This will be very hard to do altho if they only could play with the children from their classroom that might be a way around that. The school would have to be fully disinfected each day. Someone mentioned above that if teachers refuse to go back they should have to claim the 350 which is unfair on teachers who might like to go to work but would be in the high risk category.

This one day a week return will not help families get back to work. It will cause a logistical nightmare for parents. Who is going to collect them at 1.30.or 2.30 if there is no afterschool care available? Or if they have to stay away from grandparents?

It is no more unfair on teachers than it is on thousands of others who are unable to work due to being high risk or having high risk people in their homes. If I turn the question around, why should teachers be treated better than other workers if we are all in this together? If people are medically at risk surely a sick policy would come into play. Anyone working directly with the public has always been at higher risk of infection. Those are just facts.

khalessi

starbaby2003 wrote: »

It is no more unfair on teachers than it is on thousands of others who are unable to work due to being high risk or having high risk people in their homes. If I turn the question around, why should teachers be treated better than other workers if we are all in this together? If people are medically at risk surely a sick policy would come into play. Anyone working directly with the public has always been at higher risk of infection. Those are just facts.

Teachers are looking for safe environment not different to anyone else, safe for the children, for the staff, for the families.

Yes schools have to open, Denmark brought in restrctions for schools, they coopted other buildings such as museums to use as temporary teaching spaces, small classes of about 6 students and handwashing 2 hourly and proper daily cleaning. All teachers want is a safe environment, a well thought plan for opening. As you say why should we be treated better then other workers, such as cashiers or bus drivers who got spit screens for health and safety, in a pandemic.

JDD

There’s 24 kids in my daughters JI class, 26 in the older ones 2nd class. 8 in the classroom, along with a teacher, would probably be enough distancing. I’d say it’ll be a shortened day, 9-12 say, with no outside break time. This isn’t going to make a blind bit of difference to people who work from home currently, so I don’t see what the concern is about Creche’s and after schools. The point of the one day a week is is to help the kids education, not to allow parents to go back to the office. I have a 3 year old which will need minding anyway.

This step will increase infections, of course it will. All reductions in restrictions will. More kids who attend school will get it, and therefore spread it. They’ll touch infected tables, they’ll share pencils, they’ll cough, they’ll probably hug each other. How much will infections go up? Who knows.

But we can’t have the schools closed for another 12 months. So we’ll have to live with some form of school in place, alongside the virus, before a vaccine. And this one day a week thing, to start with, seems sensible.

starbaby2003

khalessi wrote: »

Teachers are looking for safe environment not different to anyone else, safe for the children, for the staff, for the families.

Yes schools have to open, Denmark brought in restrctions for schools, they coopted other buildings such as museums to use as temporary teaching spaces, small classes of about 6 students and handwashing 2 hourly and proper daily cleaning. All teachers want is a safe environment, a well thought plan for opening. As you say why should we be treated better then other workers, such as cashiers or bus drivers who got spit screens for health and safety, in a pandemic.

Ok- if I am a bus driver and I cannot work due to concerns about my safety, I will not get my full wage.
My question was not about providing safety equipment - It is, if all requested safety equipment is provided and a teacher refuses to work; should they get their full wage ?

[Deleted User]

starbaby2003 wrote: »

If I turn the question around, why should teachers be treated better than other workers if we are all in this together?

Quote:My classroom was built in the 1960s. There is no hot water in my room. It is around 5m x 5m so I would only be able to take in maybe 4 children along with myself. I have a class of 28. Some with asthma and other ailments. The children share toilets with 60 other children. 4 stalls for each gender. The children will have to stay away from each other on the yard. This will be very hard to do altho if they only could play with the children from their classroom that might be a way around that. The school would have to be fully disinfected each day. Someone mentioned above that if teachers refuse to go back they should have to claim the 350 which is unfair on teachers who might like to go to work but would be in the high risk category.

I think the point the poster was making was how going back would be a logistical nightmare and unsafe for both students or teachers in high risk categories.

Quote: Anyone working directly with the public has always been at higher risk of infection. Those are just facts.

I don’t think it is responsible to put anyone in any profession or any child who has a underlying condition back into the public domain.

Dublingirl80

starbaby2003 wrote: »

It is no more unfair on teachers than it is on thousands of others who are unable to work due to being high risk or having high risk people in their homes. If I turn the question around, why should teachers be treated better than other workers if we are all in this together? If people are medically at risk surely a sick policy would come into play. Anyone working directly with the public has always been at higher risk of infection. Those are just facts.

This is just untrue, schools are the definition of a mass gathering. That's the reason why they were the first to close. Packed pubs, restaurants, events, they all carry the same issue. The environment teachers work in should mean everyone is 2m apart/perspex screens etc if necessary, all of that, way better hygiene practices ...teachers are entitled to their safety and health as well as all the children's safety and health being looked after in the same way thay other jobs has been. It's a logistical nightmare the whole idea.

starbaby2003

SnowyMuckish wrote: »

Quote:My classroom was built in the 1960s. There is no hot water in my room. It is around 5m x 5m so I would only be able to take in maybe 4 children along with myself. I have a class of 28. Some with asthma and other ailments. The children share toilets with 60 other children. 4 stalls for each gender. The children will have to stay away from each other on the yard. This will be very hard to do altho if they only could play with the children from their classroom that might be a way around that. The school would have to be fully disinfected each day. Someone mentioned above that if teachers refuse to go back they should have to claim the 350 which is unfair on teachers who might like to go to work but would be in the high risk category.

I think the point the poster was making was how going back would be a logistical nightmare and unsafe for both students or teachers in high risk categories.

Quote: Anyone working directly with the public has always been at higher risk of infection. Those are just facts.

I don’t think it is responsible to put anyone in any profession or any child who has a underlying condition back into the public domain.

Parents of at high risk children should get an option to send their kids back. Also, as previously stated if a teacher has an underlying condition that puts them more at risk their sickness policy would kick in. Perhaps the two could be married and teachers who cannot return to the classroom could teach high risk children who are also unable to return via webex. I never said people should be put in danger, I merely pointed out a fact. In the same way people who commute to work in public transport are more at risk.

[Deleted User]

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Ok- if I am a bus driver and I cannot work due to concerns about my safety, I will not get my full wage.
My question was not about providing safety equipment - It is, if all requested safety equipment is provided and a teacher refuses to work; should they get their full wage ?

I don’t think safety masks or other safety equipment is practical in a classroom, you need to ‘speak’ audibly to teach, this wouldn’t be practical.

khalessi

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Ok- if I am a bus driver and I cannot work due to concerns about my safety, I will not get my full wage.
My question was not about providing safety equipment - It is, if all requested safety equipment is provided and a teacher refuses to work; should they get their full wage ?

That is an ecumenical matter:D

I said above I would not work if no ppe basically cause I was pd off, it happens. I have ppe and will work wearing it but can guarantee you I will be told not to as it will scare the children.

That is what the covid payment is for, so yes if they dont have a medical reason and if reasonable safety measures are properly in place

I have 2 conditions on the list for precautions but I want to work as I do a better job face to face then online, as my kids ask me questions face to face but are they are reticent to ask them online. I miss the banter and their faces as we work.

starbaby2003

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

This is just untrue, schools are the definition of a mass gathering. That's the reason why they were the first to close. Packed pubs, restaurants, events, they all carry the same issue. The environment teachers work in should mean everyone is 2m apart/perspex screens etc if necessary, all of that, way better hygiene practices ...teachers are entitled to their safety and health as well as all the children's safety and health being looked after in the same way thay other jobs has been. It's a logistical nightmare the whole idea.

30 people in a classroom is not a mass gathering. You are comparing apples with oranges here. implying people are requesting to send teachers and kids into a war zone. Should nurses and doctors just not go to work? Parents can make decisions about their own kids safety and perform a risk assessment themselves so you should remove that from your argument too. If teachers don’t want to reopen schools that is fine but they need to provide lessons for full days across an internet platform exactly like colleges are.

[Deleted User]

Home schooling might be a thing for a while.

[Deleted User]

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Ok- if I am a bus driver and I cannot work due to concerns about my safety, I will not get my full wage.
My question was not about providing safety equipment - It is, if all requested safety equipment is provided and a teacher refuses to work; should they get their full wage ?

Of course they shouldn't.

khalessi

starbaby2003 wrote: »

30 people in a classroom is not a mass gathering. You are comparing apples with oranges here. implying people are requesting to send teachers and kids into a war zone. Should nurses and doctors just not go to work? Parents can make decisions about their own kids safety and perform a risk assessment themselves so you should remove that from your argument too. If teachers don’t want to reopen schools that is fine but they need to provide lessons for full days across an internet platform exactly like colleges are.

I am a nurse and also a teacher. Pre Covid safety equipment and infection control was implemented in hospitals to prevent spread of disease. It is one of the reasons traditional nursing uniforms with nurse hats was gotten rid of as someone swabbed the hats and they were covered in germs. Now in Covid era that ppe has been stepped up significantly.

30 people in a room is not a mass gathering but 30 children who don't adhere to basic hygiene at the best of times can be. It just takes some planning to be put into place. Use public spaces split classes properly. All that is asked for is proper planning not just opening schools for 1 million children.

[Deleted User]

starbaby2003 wrote: »

If teachers don’t want to reopen schools that is fine but they need to provide lessons for full days across an internet platform exactly like colleges are.

Teachers like everyone else want life to return to normal, when it is safe and practical to do so. Demonizing teachers here will solve nothing.

Teachers are working hard from home to provide the best support they can for their students under the current conditions.

As for full lessons all day long... yes in a college setting with adults this is practical. With 30 junior infants online all day, how would that work, is someone going to sit beside them at home the entire day to keep their focus?

antgal23

I think when Harris refers to schools returning he is referring to secondary level only, maybe LC classes whch I imagine are smaller and will follow social distancing

They said restrictions would be lifted in reverse order so surely movement would go first, then retail, bars , with schools last?

With that logic they are gradually increasing the numbers who congregate in one place whilst observing infections and testing and treating