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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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Hearty80

Stateofyou wrote: »

What has the UK choices got to do with us here in Ireland? Surely they've shown how NOT to respond, but the main thing should be for our own government and experts to respond to our own unique challenges and in accordance to what is happening here, not somewhere else. Obviously I think we should be looking to see how other countries are achieving results and to what worked somewhere else, but ultimately doing something just because the UK did and now we have to makes no sense.

Schools aren't a main problem now like the care homes are because they've been closed. Not sure that's a fair comparison? I'd like to hear ideas on gradually re-opening parts of society again, but with a plan for prevention and also more testing in place. Will they supply schools with hand sanitizer? Will they wear masks? How will they ensure proper distancing? Will lunch time be lengthened to allow for hand washing and cleaning surfaces? My kids won't be going back until I can be assured of their safety and following on from that, ours. Just as we would for our workplaces.

It's not just the UK lots of countries all over Europe have plans to reopen. Why would you be nervous of your children going back? I would not be at all, my children are very happy at home and we dont need schools for childcare. But the economy needs to reopen so therefore schools and creches need to reopen.

Stateofyou

Hearty80 wrote: »

Just open the schools as normal, social distancing is never possible with children. In 2 weeks time Ireland needs to restart the economy. Obviously teachers don't want to go back because they never do. Children are not super spreaders, in the uk essential workers were still able to send their children to school.

They are spreaders (I don't know about "super" but I think simply "spreader" is bad enough). Yes they were still able to send their children to school. Now look at their numbers and the daily death toll. There are consequences for the choices they've made-or didn't make-since it hit their country.

Hearty80

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So it's mostly down to teacher safety and room size.

No teachers over 70, anyone with serious underlying conditions probably shouldn't be working with young children anyway.

gnf_ireland

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So a classroom that accommodates 30 would not be able to accommodate 15 socially distanced kids?

My daughters classroom has 32 students - 8 groups with 4 per group. Each group is basically two small tables pushed back to back and two per table facing each other. If you have ever been into a school, those tables are small.

The room would probably fit 10 tables on their own with a single chair, 2m odd apart. Might manage 12, but unlikely to fit 16.

You could not have children sharing a table in reality and maintain any social distancing.

Thats why I suggested splitting a class between 3 and 4, to give extra space and allow people to be more comfortable with the proposal. We cannot realistically put them into 2m square cages and keep them there for the day !

Professor Moriarty

Stateofyou wrote: »

They are spreaders (I don't know about "super" but I think simply "spreader" is bad enough). Yes they were still able to send their children to school. Now look at their numbers and the daily death toll. There are consequences for the choices they've made-or didn't make-since it hit their country.

I read some stats recently that showed children are about 50% less likely to contract Covid-19 but are infectious when they do.

gnf_ireland

Stateofyou wrote: »

They are spreaders (I don't know about "super" but I think simply "spreader" is bad enough). Yes they were still able to send their children to school. Now look at their numbers and the daily death toll. There are consequences for the choices they've made-or didn't make-since it hit their country.

We are all spreaders !! Children are no different.

BanditLuke

Wow just wow. The heads are buried so so deep in the sand it's frightening. Thankfully this thread is an outlier and the general public except schools aren't returning until September and are facing up to that now and making preparations.

A lot of maturing is needed here and taking responsibility.

Stateofyou

Hearty80 wrote: »

It's not just the UK lots of countries all over Europe have plans to reopen. Why would you be nervous of your children going back? I would not be at all, my children are very happy at home and we dont need schools for childcare. But the economy needs to reopen so therefore schools and creches need to reopen.

Nothing wrong with planning, I like a good plan as much as the next person! So long as it's well thought out and with safety in mind.

Not sure why you would ask me if I'm nervous about my children going back. I would say that is a worry on most parent's minds in the middle of a pandemic. As is going back to a workplace. From where I sit, after having conversations with those I know, reading news, reading on here, etc., most people seem fairly anxious about life going on after this and pre-vaccine. I've seen a lot of chatter about how things will be different going forward in how people approach personal hygiene, etc.

khalessi

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So it's mostly down to teacher safety and room size.

Deep cleaning is for everyone, social distancing is for everyone.

I am a teacher I would like PPE, it would be great if PPE provided for children but someone when I made that point already said it would be impossible to maintain in younger classes.

Hand washing is carried out 2 hourly in Denmark. THey have smaller classes to start with, I think health and safety for all is the issue

THere are over 1 million children in education

JRant

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Simon Harris has stated that the number of new daily positive cases are still too high which they clearly are. Doesn`t strike me as something that he would say if a relaxation of the restrictions was going to happen anytime in the near future.

They are still high but where they are occurring is the important part. The majority seem to be hospitals and nursing/residential homes.

We also don't really seem to have any idea of what's happening in the community as they aren't really testing there. They can only extrapolate from the numbers of people being admitted and this seems to be pointing towards a relaxing of measures.

khalessi

Hearty80 wrote: »

Just open the schools as normal, social distancing is never possible with children. In 2 weeks time Ireland needs to restart the economy. Obviously teachers don't want to go back because they never do. Children are not super spreaders, in the uk essential workers were still able to send their children to school.

Are you for real!!!

I miss my children, I want to be teaching them but I want it safe for everyone. There are people in this thread complaining about buses packed going to work. Get your head out of your ass there is a pandemic and of course I am nervous I have 2 issues that could be issues if I get covid and have already stated I will teach with a mask as want to get back

But I do not want a half assed plan from the government

Professor Moriarty

khalessi wrote: »

Deep cleaning is for everyone, social distancing is for everyone.

I am a teacher I would like PPE, it would be great if PPE provided for children but someone when I made that point already said it would be impossible to maintain in younger classes.

Hand washing is carried out 2 hourly in Denmark. THey have smaller classes to start with, I think health and safety for all is the issue

THere are over 1 million children in education

Earlier in the thread, when it was proposed that half kids would come in for half a week, my concerns were for the teacher. Having read teachers' posts I realise that social distancing for kids isn't possible even with half the number. Personally, if I were a teacher, I would be very reluctant to engage with a group of kids on a daily basis at the moment.

road_high

BanditLuke wrote: »

Wow just wow. The heads are buried so so deep in the sand it's frightening. Thankfully this thread is an outlier and the general public except schools aren't returning until September and are facing up to that now and making preparations.

A lot of maturing is needed here and taking responsibility.

And what do you think the public have been doing the past two months? Credit where it’s due. At least people are trying to put forward some solutions here. Personally think the ones that argue we can lockdown the economy indefinitely are the ones with their heads buried in the sand but anyhow

Hearty80

My position stands schools should reopen, no one has persuaded me any differently. Teachers need to get back to work, they are no more in danger than a person working in a supermarket. The country cannot keep paying people to sit at home until September. It's not sustainable. Hopefully we will follow the rest of Europe and open in the middle of May. September is beyond ridiculous.

Phoebas

I don't think there's any way that you could bring kids back into schools and maintain strict social distancing. Kids just don't operate that way.

I think the best they could do is stagger start, break and finish times by class and have additional monitoring of these kids and their families for signs of clusters.
Any child that lives with a vunerable person might need to be excluded or have a separate solution.

We need to be prepared to accept more risk and more individual monitoring if we are to get schools reopened.

FishOnABike

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So, if you were to halve those numbers...

You would need to divide them by three or four as you need to increase the spacing on all four sides.

When our children were in primary school, there were four children to a table / workgroup. To maintain 2m distance that would have to drop to one per table.

If a member of staff tested positive then the school would have to shut down for a two week quarantine period.

Before we try putting people back together in the one room for hours every day more needs to be known about the transmission mechanism of the virus, particularly droplet, micro-droplet which can remain suspended in the air for some time from a sneeze, cough or even just talking or breathing.

Thorough sanitisation of classrooms and classroom equipment would be needed frequently, possibly between each different group of pupils.

I think more needs to be known before trying large scale live experiments and possibly undoing a large amount of good the current restrictions have achieved.

khalessi

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Earlier in the thread, when it was proposed that half kids would come in for half a week, my concerns were for the teacher. Having read teachers' posts I realise that social distancing for kids isn't possible even with half the number. personally, if I were a teacher, I would be very reluctant to engage with a group of kids on a daily basis at the moment.

Thank you for saying that, especially when there are other commenting that we dont want to come back. It makes me sad that people feel it is ok to bully teachers. I want to teach, I have nearly died twice in last few years and if safe for all I will teach. I was a nurse for 20 years and am well aware for prevention of cross infection and am really hoping there is a plan.

khalessi

Hearty80 wrote: »

My position stands schools should reopen, no one has persuaded me any differently. Teachers need to get back to work, they are no more in danger than a person working in a supermarket. The country cannot keep paying people to sit at home until September. It's not sustainable. Hopefully we will follow the rest of Europe and open in the middle of May. September is beyond ridiculous.

You really havent a clue have you?

All teachers want is a safe plan. Cashiers in supermarkets got spit screens up and all I want is safety for me the children I teach and my own chldren when they go back to school. Other jobs have got it, why not teachers? I was a nurse for 20+ years and am just asking for simple precautions to ensure health and safety in a pandemic

Hearty80

khalessi wrote: »

Are you for real!!!

I miss my children, I want to be teaching them but I want it safe for everyone. There are people in this thread complaining about buses packed going to work. Get your head out of your ass there is a pandemic and of course I am nervous I have 2 issues that could be issues if I get covid and have already stated I will teach with a mask as want to get back

But I do not want a half assed plan from the government

Surprise Surprise a teacher who doesn't want to go to work.......
What about supermarket workers health care assistants, hospital porters, poundshop employees. All meeting the most at risk everyday.
Take your head out of your posterior and go back to work. The economy needs schools and creches to reopen, it can't sustain you sitting at home being fully paid indefinitely.

iamwhoiam

I think the first to open should be hardware and gardening . If people had paint and garden compost etc it would keep many at home .The over 70 I know are all crying out to have paint and things to do . It could be done just like the supermarkets with controlled queues etc .
If Woodies were delivery paint this week they would make a fortune

Cork Boy 53

Hearty80 wrote: »

Just open the schools as normal, social distancing is never possible with children. In 2 weeks time Ireland needs to restart the economy. Obviously teachers don't want to go back because they never do. Children are not super spreaders, in the uk essential workers were still able to send their children to school.

How can essential workers in the UK or anywhere else send their children to school if they are closed? What evidence do you have that children are not super spreaders? Also you appear to have an anti teacher bias.

wrestlemaniac

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

So a classroom that accommodates 30 would not be able to accommodate 15 socially distanced kids?

It might, but where do the other 15 go?

Hearty80

khalessi wrote: »

Thank you for saying that, especially when there are other commenting that we dont want to come back. It makes me sad that people feel it is ok to bully teachers. I want to teach, I have nearly died twice in last few years and if safe for all I will teach. I was a nurse for 20 years and am well aware for prevention of cross infection and am really hoping there is a plan.

If you have that many health conditions then you shouldn't go back to work, but young healthy teachers should. I cant imagine being around young children is ever a good idea if you are that unwell.

drunkmonkey

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Earlier in the thread, when it was proposed that half kids would come in for half a week, my concerns were for the teacher. Having read teachers' posts I realise that social distancing for kids isn't possible even with half the number. Personally, if I were a teacher, I would be very reluctant to engage with a group of kids on a daily basis at the moment.

If you were a retired teachers maybe but this is mainly a 70+ problem here just like everywhere else.
This seems to have been in the wild here since late December/ eary January, yet we have no dead teachers or primary school children i'm aware of.
The social distancing in schools isn't possible but i've seen no evidence it's needed when the at risk group are cocooned.
The kids are probably the healthiest group they've been locked away long enough not be carrying the virus.
We can't take a one shoe fits all approach, it needs to happen location by location as some areas are pretty much virus free at this stage.

Galwayguy35

The New Zealend approach seems to have worked, they closed their borders (we didn't ) and this combined with social distancing etc has got the numbers down to levels where they are looking into easing some of the ristrictions.

khalessi

Hearty80 wrote: »

Surprise Surprise a teacher who doesn't want to go to work.......
What about supermarket workers health care assistants, hospital porters, poundshop employees. All meeting the most at risk everyday.
Take your head out of your posterior and go back to work. The economy needs schools and creches to reopen, it can't sustain you sitting at home being fully paid indefinitely.

Interesting you pick the quote saying I will work

road_high

wrestlemaniac wrote: »

It might, but where do the other 15 go?

Could they alternate the days and they stay at home?
People need to start thinking outside the box here. Simply shutting up shop until September is burying heads in sand

iamwhoiam

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

How can essential workers in the UK or anywhere else send their children to school if they are closed? What evidence do you have that children are not super spreaders? Also you appear to have an anti teacher bias.

The schools in the UK are open for children of frontline workers .A friend of mine is and SNA in the UK . She is on a roster and goes in 1 or 2 days a week.Depending on the parents shifts they can have between 9 and 20 children per day .They are not thought lessons they are kept busy with crafts and movies etc .
If at all possible they are kept outdoors in very small groups .They teach hand washing etc first thing and use hand sanitizer hourly .

Stateofyou

Hearty80 wrote: »

My position stands schools should reopen, no one has persuaded me any differently. Teachers need to get back to work, they are no more in danger than a person working in a supermarket. The country cannot keep paying people to sit at home until September. It's not sustainable. Hopefully we will follow the rest of Europe and open in the middle of May. September is beyond ridiculous.

I honestly can't believe what I'm reading here. I think you already know that teaching 16-30 children in a single room all day and touching/grading their work, all touching the same doors, breathing the same air in a small room, and with people who often have very little concept of personal hygeine (harder not to touch face, cough/sneeze into elbows, washing hands properly, etc) is very different to the environment of a worker in a supermarket.

You have to know this, and you've just decided to make a false comparison because it suits you.

[Deleted User]

Just a thought here,

Is it possible for schools to move learning to online platforms and have teachers support kids with questions that they have? One day a week might be slow and also comes increased risk of exposure. Schools are vital to the economy yes, but there seems to be a way around it that can keep it going without increasing the risk of exposure which is technology

However, the more difficult issues are those aspects of the economy that need human to human connection but are not so essential.