Relaxation of restrictions

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The average class size is 24. 30 is an outlier. Regardless, couldn't a class that accommodates 30 easily accommodate 15 socially distanced kids?

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/irish-primary-schools-bottom-of-the-class-for-class-sizes-and-funding-in-europe-949949.html

Average looks to be 25 based on this quick search. In the area I am in (high demand area), and I asked all schools this question most have between 28 and 33 per class, averaging 30. The absolute cutoff was 33.

My youngest has 26 in a mixed grade class and eldest has 32 in a single grade class

bazermc

Ellsbells1 wrote: »

I understand the need for kids to go back to school my own are really missing school and friends however who will mind children on the alternative days that children are not in school and their parents are in work? How can social distancing work in crèches?

They same way as we (parents) are doing it at the moment with schools completely closed.

FishOnABike wrote: »

That's the problem. Ratio is closer to double that.

The average is 24/1. But that's not the point though.

khalessi

Ray Donovan wrote: »

1 day a week for primary schools is the most creative solution they came up with??

I really really hope this is the beginning of plan, not the plan!!

In my school there are 120 approximately in each year group. Over 900 kids in the school

These would need to be split into groups of 6 for proper social distancing in classroom and then a teacher and an SNA.

Will extra buildings be coopted like for hospitals and in Danish models we saw lovely photos of?

Will PPE be provided for teachers?

Will social distancing be left to schools to sort out while government claim a success? Yup

KerryConnor wrote: »

You're suggesting you could have half students in the school groups of 8/9. There wouldn't be enough classrooms, there's only one classroom per class group. And then small office size rooms. So you could only have a third or a quatre of the kids in at a time if you stick to those size groups.

A room can accommodate 6 kids or a room can accommodate 60 kids. If you halve those numbers you greatly increase the space between the kids.

FishOnABike

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Not getting your logic. Special needs aside and taking a 16/1 ratio, there are 16 kids are typically in a classroom. If that number is reduced to 8, what's the problem?

That's the problem. Ratio is closer to double that.

Ellsbells1

I understand the need for kids to go back to school my own are really missing school and friends however who will mind children on the alternative days that children are not in school and their parents are in work? How can social distancing work in crèches?

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Who would hone school them if their parent(s) are working?

Who is saying parents will be able to return to work in that situation? 1 day a week does not allow anyone return to work. I was talking to our CEO during the week and he said it was likely it could be 6 months (or longer) before a normal working pattern is reintroduced - whatever the new normal will be.

And the answer is the same people who home school them before the easter holidays while trying to balance that with the full time jobs they already had.

There are people working from home at the moment who are expected to get a full days normal workload done while this crises is ongoing (and are thankfully getting paid for it as well). Their only options are to start very early, finish very late and try keep all balls in the air in terms of work and children. Very few are getting paid (outside of the 350 euro a week) and not doing a normal days workload

KerryConnor

You're suggesting you could have half students in the school groups of 8/9. There wouldn't be enough classrooms, there's only one classroom per class group. And then small office size rooms. So you could only have a third or a quatre of the kids in at a time if you stick to those size groups.

Would be great for the kids to have small classes for a year, they'd get a lot out of it. But they'd need to have lots extra classrooms. Maybe prefabs will be the answer in some schools. Then where would you get the teachers. If you go down to those ratios you're cancelling all SEN. In Denmark each class seems to already have teaching assistant (and lower numbers) which seems to be how they adjusted so quickly

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Not getting your logic. Special needs aside and taking a 16/1 ratio, there are 16 kids are typically in a classroom. If that number is reduced to 8, what's the problem?

Cork Boy 53

Hearty80 wrote: »

Why cant the schools open and still keep children away from grandparents and elderly neighbours/friends. If UK schools reopen then its actually ridiculous for our schools to remain closed. Nursing homes are the major problem not schools or creches. Not a regular poster here but sounds like everyone just agrees with each other. Everything will be open soon then ye will have to come out of the bunkers.

In what way is that ridiculous? Are you suggesting that just because the UK might do something Ireland has to do the same?

gnf_ireland wrote: »

ratio is 26/1 when principals are included, of which many are non-teaching. Most classes in big schools have ~30 per class

Not every student is 5 years old ! The very youngest of a 13-14 year cycle are.

The average class size is 24. 30 is an outlier. Regardless, couldn't a class that accommodates 30 easily accommodate 15 socially distanced kids?

Hearty80

Why cant the schools open and still keep children away from grandparents and elderly neighbours/friends. If UK schools reopen then its actually ridiculous for our schools to remain closed. Nursing homes are the major problem not schools or creches. Not a regular poster here but sounds like everyone just agrees with each other. Everything will be open soon then ye will have to come out of the bunkers.

easypazz

road_high wrote: »

That’s the question no one is focused on. It’s all being borrowed at the moment. The problem is of course paying it back with interest on top of our national debt.

All the realists are focused on it.

The lockdown brigade bury their head in the sand when it is mentioned.

gnf_ireland wrote: »

I am not sure where you got the numbers from. Most schools would average around 20 students per teacher including principals. The student teacher ratio is 26 if I remember correctly. Our school has around 12 teachers (excl principal) for around 340 pupils.

The sensible way to approach this is to divide each class into say 3 or 4 groups, and bring them in one day a week each (teacher in 3-4 days), and spend the other day correcting homework and setting the plans for the children's work for the remaining days where they continue some level of home schooling.

That would mean around 8 children or so per class, so social distancing is much more possible, within the yard and classroom settings. And those requiring additional supports can continue to receive them.

Does it solve issues across the board - absolutely not, but it does allow a level of social interaction for children in a controlled manner, and if parents don't feel comfortable with it (for example they wish to engage closer with their own parents), then they don't have to send them in. But not everyone has Mammy and Daddy around the corner.

We all need to remember we are social animals and need a level of interaction. Children have effectively been locked up for the last month - and many don't understand what is going on. There is a reason solitary confinement is a punishment in most penal systems !

Who would hone school them if their parent(s) are working?

road_high

ceadaoin. wrote: »

And that's an indefinite payment is it? Where is the money going to keep coming from if no one is working?

That’s the question no one is focused on. It’s all being borrowed at the moment. The problem is of course paying it back with interest on top of our national debt.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

They don't have to be spare. Ratio of 16/1 pupils to teachers coming into classrooms typically. If half stay at home then social distancing is possible. Logistically it would work but practically, with 5 year olds and teacher wellbeing in the mix, it might not.

ratio is 26/1 when principals are included, of which many are non-teaching. Most classes in big schools have ~30 per class

Not every student is 5 years old ! The very youngest of a 13-14 year cycle are.

JRant

easypazz wrote: »

I'd say it nonsense, the virus doesn't do borders.

Could very well be. It does look at it from a mathematical view and how the peaks in nearly every country seems to be about 40 days from first case and after 70 it's numbers are dramatically decreased. This seems to be the distribution regardless of whether a full lockdown has been implemented or not. Probably a bit early to be making such claims but it does seem to correlate with what we are seeing here in Ireland anyway.

FishOnABike

It will be a logistical and practical nightmare. The biggest reservoirs of infection at the moment seem to be nursing/residential care homes and healthcare workers.

Any workplace where social distancing and other strict anti-infection measures can't be effectively and consistently implemented will be problematic.

If one worker tests positive they and their contacts will need to self isolate for up to a fortnight.

Next day test results wouldn't help if it takes time for a person's viral load to increase to a detectable level after infection.

With a significant % presymptomatic, asymptomatic or mildly symptomatic carriers it can spread under the radar before being detected.

If a number of people in a household are working the opportunity for infection is multiplied and if there is intra-household transfer of the virus then all contacts in multiple workplaces will also have to self isolate for a two week quarantine period.

With the prospect of repeated, significant, large levels of absenteeism, possibly amounting to effective shutdowns of a business, it would be an extremely difficult environment for any business to successfully operate in.

alentejo

rusty the athlete wrote: »

The daily increase in deaths in Ireland looks very alarming. Over the last five days it is marginally ahead of the UK, twice as bad as Spain and four times worse than Italy. Really frightening.

The figures look and are shocking at the moment, however those are the reported figures and didn't necessarily occur over the past 24 hours. I suspect those deaths occurred over the past 7 to 14 days.

KerryConnor wrote: »

SEN teachers don't have classrooms, they typically have small rooms that might only fit 2 people if you were properly social distancing. Any school I've been in has only 1 classroom per class group.

So imagine that was taken into consideration with day a week idea.

Edit - - maybe they'll have to look into installing prefabs on school grounds if 8/9 number has to be adhered to for 12/18 months

Not getting your logic. Special needs aside and taking a 16/1 ratio, there are 16 kids are typically in a classroom. If that number is reduced to 8, what's the problem?

Ray Donovan wrote: »

1 day a week for primary schools is the most creative solution they came up with??

How about this and I’m just spitballing here:

Say a school has 200 pupils and 12 teachers including Special Ed.

Monday to Wednesday lunchtime - 100 kids are brought in and split into the 12 rooms and taught by the teachers in a ratio of 8/9 pupils to 1 teachers.

At lunchtime on Wednesday these 100 kids go home and the other 100 come in and repeat.

No children withdrawn for Special Ed unfortunately due to logistics etc.

Just a thought but probably a million reasons why this couldn’t happen.

I am not sure where you got the numbers from. Most schools would average around 20 students per teacher including principals. The student teacher ratio is 26 if I remember correctly. Our school has around 12 teachers (excl principal) for around 340 pupils.

The sensible way to approach this is to divide each class into say 3 or 4 groups, and bring them in one day a week each (teacher in 3-4 days), and spend the other day correcting homework and setting the plans for the children's work for the remaining days where they continue some level of home schooling.

That would mean around 8 children or so per class, so social distancing is much more possible, within the yard and classroom settings. And those requiring additional supports can continue to receive them.

Does it solve issues across the board - absolutely not, but it does allow a level of social interaction for children in a controlled manner, and if parents don't feel comfortable with it (for example they wish to engage closer with their own parents), then they don't have to send them in. But not everyone has Mammy and Daddy around the corner.

We all need to remember we are social animals and need a level of interaction. Children have effectively been locked up for the last month - and many don't understand what is going on. There is a reason solitary confinement is a punishment in most penal systems !

rusty the athlete wrote: »

The daily increase in deaths in Ireland looks very alarming. Over the last five days it is marginally ahead of the UK, twice as bad as Spain and four times worse than Italy. Really frightening.

Shocking what's going on in homes and healthcare settings

ceadaoin.

pjohnson wrote: »

If they havent heard of the 350 a week payment from the government then they probably dont have much chance of survival. Its been well publicised. Sure it mightn't get them 5 star meals in fancy hotels they are used to but it would allow survival.

And that's an indefinite payment is it? Where is the money going to keep coming from if no one is working?

rusty the athlete

The daily increase in deaths in Ireland looks very alarming. Over the last five days it is marginally ahead of the UK, twice as bad as Spain and four times worse than Italy. Really frightening.

KerryConnor

SEN teachers don't have classrooms, they typically have small rooms that might only fit 2 people if you were properly social distancing. Any school I've been in has only 1 classroom per class group.

So imagine that was taken into consideration with day a week idea.

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

They don't have to be spare. Ratio of 16/1 pupils to teachers coming into classrooms typically. If half stay at home then social distancing is possible. Logistically it would work but practically, with 5 year olds and teacher wellbeing in the mix, it might not.

Edit - - maybe they'll have to look into installing prefabs on school grounds if 8/9 number has to be adhered to for 12/18 months

KerryConnor wrote: »

Most schools are packed to capacity which is where I think the 1 day a week came from. There are no spare classrooms for 8/9 kids to sit in.

They don't have to be spare. Ratio of 16/1 pupils to teachers coming into classrooms typically. If half stay at home then social distancing is possible. Logistically it would work but practically, with 5 year olds and teacher wellbeing in the mix, it might not.

pjohnson wrote: »

If they havent heard of the 350 a week payment from the government to make up for any lost earnings then they probably dont have much chance of survival. Its been very well publicised. Sure it mightn't get them 5 star meals in fancy hotels or avocado or shìte like that that they are used to but it would allow survival.

Well, there it is. Keep the avocado lovers lockdown because I'm begrudging, small minded and want everyone to wallow in my own special type of misery

easypazz

JRant wrote: »

I posted a link to a Times of Israel article yesterday where this was mentioned.

I'd say it nonsense, the virus doesn't do borders.