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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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Xertz

I’ve relatives with kids in junior and senior infants and my observation is that they have picked up everything that was going at school and brought it home to parents - every cold, flu and even the winter vomiting bug when it was going.

Those were on several occasions where very nasty bugs, including an extremely bad flu passed onto other households, including mine, and also to my parents, particularly at Christmas when the whole family at a big Xmas got norovirus (winter vomiting bug) which had been in one of the kids’ schools.

So my assumption is when those age groups are back at school, if someone has COVID-19 in their class, they’ll all get it and bring it home and, given its not very symptomatic for some, and high contagious we’ll have parents and grandparents accidentally infected in short time.

Kids of that age be they Irish, Danish,
American, British, French or any other nationality aren’t going to be able to socially distance. They’re kids. A few of them might get the concept, but you can guarantee that 90% won’t. They run around, play, touch and most of them can’t manage to do things like use tissues, reliably wash their hands or any of those things that are needed to control spread.

Hows it going to work? We are going to need temperature scans and all sorts of things and absolute bans on sick kids or staff coming to school.

We need a plan to do something by September to restart education but some of it is just going to make things very difficult to contain.

I can see it working ok as you get into older age groups, but at primary level, especially the earlier years, how is this going to work at all?

The reasons for spread in nursing homes are probably similar - congregated settings and inability to socially distance due to people with high dependency nursing needs or possibly cognitive issues in some cases. I appreciate that they are also a group with more vulnerable health than the general population, but that wouldn’t necessarily be the case in residential care for younger people with special needs for example, yet it spread like wildfire in those contexts too.

If you go to the pub and nightclub context you’ve also got similarly high risk, or even more extreme dynamics - highly congregated, very dense crowds and when you add alcohol you’re into inability to socially distance due to having low inhibitions and, for a lot of people, inability to show much cop on after a few pints - so I’m not seeing how that’s even remotely going to work. I can’t see people here or in the U.K. being able to avoid spread in those kinds of venues. We have a messy drinking culture and it’s not going to suddenly change to some paragon of sensibility overnight.

What about sports, especially contact sports? You’ll get spread on the pitch if someone got the virus but isn’t symptomatic and you’ll get spread amongst spectators unless there’s 2m social distancing in directions, which would make stadia impossible.

I guess you could isolate professional sports people and cocoon them and have games run exclusively for tv?

I’m trying to be an optimist and pragmatic but I just cannot figure out how this is going to work without a vaccine and herd immunity built from that.

Big events should just be forgotten about in 2020. I can’t see the point until we’ve safety with good vaccine coverage. I’m still hearing rumours of people wanting to run major events and gigs later this summer ?!!!!?

Rapid testing will be needed and all sorts of measures to prevent spread, but I think we need to get a bit realistic about what’s possible without causing a new spike.

Opening up the economy is definitely necessary but we can’t throw caution to the wind and fling everything back to normal or we will cost ourselves lives and then billions with a second lockdown if this flares up again. If we get into a cycle of controlling flair ups with lockdowns followed by reemergence of the virus and needing further lockdowns this could go on for years with serious social and economic implications. Getting the economy back up and running with stability is absolutely essential or we will be unable to sustain the levels of social protection we have had this time around. There’s a hard limit to what any country or even enormous bloc like the eurozone can fund, so we need to be damn careful as we can’t just do this over and over.

From a medical point of view, absolutely nothing has changed since early March. We don’t have a vaccine. We don’t have any new drugs. Both are in the pipeline and closer but that’s all.

If anything, it’s worse as the virus is now lurking around the community and could kick off from anywhere, not just obvious high risk pathways like returning holidaymakers from northern Italy etc as was the case in the earlier stages.

This isn’t going to be easy at all.

JRant

Class sizes are far too big in Ireland to ever have social distancing applied to them. That's not going to change between May and September. Masks and hand hygiene are about the best you can do in school settings IMO.

What's been really noticable during these restrictions is the utter disgust a lot of older people view young children with. As if they had the black death. I've been quite shocked at how we've (2 & 5 year old) been looked at by older people when walking past them. Even had some pass comments at me going past them.

On my daily walk yesterday there was a noticeable increase in people about and cars on the road. I think the government messed up extending the lockdown by 3 weeks and with the continued fudging of numbers. With new data being released it appears we are thankful over the worst of this for now. Community spread is "practically" zero according to them and the R0 is at best 0.7. By their own metrics we should be starting to slowly open up from Monday week. The fact that there's a bank holiday weekend the following week shouldn't have had any bearing on easing restrictions.

JTMan

Sunday Times reports here: (paywall)
- Construction workers are to work different shifts to ensure social distancing, and wear full face shields and gloves where close contact cannot be avoided, in a bid to get 150,000 builders back to work on May 5.
- Schools are to be asked to provide an “on call” system to handle Leaving Cert pupils’ queries and concerns from mid-June to mid-July, before reopening classrooms a fortnight before their exams.
- Second-level teachers will take “holiday time” for six weeks from the beginning of June, but will be available where needed to help Leaving Cert students by phone for the last four weeks of that period.

Sunday Independent reports here: (paywall)
- HEALTH Minister Simon Harris has signalled schools could be reopened one day a week before the end of term this summer.
- Other plans include allowing people to exercise further than 2km from their homes and letting the over-70s, who are currently ‘cocooning’ at home, go for a walk.
- Pubs are unlikely to reopen to maximum capacity, “packed” with people, until there is an effective vaccine or treatment for the disease

easypazz

Simon Harris says schools to open 1 day a week before summer (indo. article)

How do the prophets of doom on here feel about that?

facehugger99

It's about time the Govt started coming up with some concrete proposals for getting back to some form of normality - should have happened 2 weeks ago.

Obviously the doom-mongers will be up in arms and onto social-media but they will need to be faced down.

kalkat2002

easypazz wrote: »

Simon Harris says schools to open 1 day a week before summer (indo. article)

How do the prophets of doom on here feel about that?

Cost / benefit makes non sense for it when maximum 8 days left
Few parents will bring kids to school with current storm
Kids are not lab rats
Maybe this measure makes sense for august but not now

JRant

JTMan wrote: »

Sunday Times reports here: (paywall)
- Construction workers are to work different shifts to ensure social distancing, and wear full face shields and gloves where close contact cannot be avoided, in a bid to get 150,000 builders back to work on May 5.
- Schools are to be asked to provide an “on call” system to handle Leaving Cert pupils’ queries and concerns from mid-June to mid-July, before reopening classrooms a fortnight before their exams.
- Second-level teachers will take “holiday time” for six weeks from the beginning of June, but will be available where needed to help Leaving Cert students by phone for the last four weeks of that period.

Sunday Independent reports here: (paywall)
- HEALTH Minister Simon Harris has signalled schools could be reopened one day a week before the end of term this summer.
- Other plans include allowing people to exercise further than 2km from their homes and letting the over-70s, who are currently ‘cocooning’ at home, go for a walk.
- Pubs are unlikely to reopen to maximum capacity, “packed” with people, until there is an effective vaccine or treatment for the disease

Some sensible measures in those articles but by jaysus does the constant kite flying from FG annoy me. They should put forward a clear plan on what's going to be opened and when. What the metrics are to keep things open etc. Nobody with an iota of sense hold them to it 100% but after 5 weeks of nothing we deserve some clear honest communication from them.

lord quackinton

kalkat2002 wrote: »

Cost / benefit makes non sense for it when maximun 8 days left
Few parents will bring kids to school with current storm
Kids are not lab rats

like of the rest of the lockdown weirdos on here it sounds like you dont have kids
when schools open they will be full
young children are struggling badly with this, they dont understand what is going and cant understand why they cant meet their cousins and go to school or even go to the playground

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

facehugger99 wrote: »

It's about time the Govt started coming up with some concrete proposals for getting back to some form of normality - should have happened 2 weeks ago.

Obviously the doom-mongers will be up in arms and onto social-media but they will need to be faced down.

JRant wrote: »

Some sensible measures in those articles but by jaysus does the constant kite flying from FG annoy me. They should put forward a clear plan on what's going to be opened and when. What the metrics are to keep things open etc. Nobody with an iota of sense hold them to it 100% but after 5 weeks of nothing we deserve some clear honest communication from them.

The problem there is that it's impossible to say. Two weeks ago, it would have been difficult to predict wehre we are now. In two weeks time...? That's a long time at the moment.

And any proposals made will be shot down if things flare up again by people who just want to make a political point or have a dig at Leo.

JRant

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

The problem there is that it's impossible to say. Two weeks ago, it would have been difficult to predict wehre we are now. In two weeks time...? That's a long time at the moment.

And any proposals made will be shot down if things flare up again by people who just want to make a political point or have a dig at Leo.

I disagree completely. 2 weeks from lifting restrictions is absolutely the time to start communicating what their broad plans are for reopening. Nothing can be set in stone but giving people general ideas of what is required to keep things open is also key.

Maybe it's time our governments started to treat us like the educated people the vast majority are. It's also been said by these politicians that this is not about politics so maybe they should start acting that way.

kalkat2002

lord quackinton wrote: »

like of the rest of the lockdown weirdos on here it sounds like you dont have kids
when schools open they will be full
young children are struggling badly with this, they dont understand what is going and cant understand why they cant meet their cousins and go to school or even go to the playground

I have two kids and when they dont understand something we,the parents, are here to explain it to them and make it easy
Maybe you are the one struggling badly with this...that's another issue
Weirdo knows best

timmy_mallet

kalkat2002 wrote: »

Cost / benefit makes non sense for it when maximum 8 days left
Few parents will bring kids to school with current storm
Kids are not lab rats
Maybe this measure makes sense for august but not now

What's the difference between now and August?

timmy_mallet

kalkat2002 wrote: »

Cost / benefit makes non sense for it when maximum 8 days left
Few parents will bring kids to school with current storm
Kids are not lab rats
Maybe this measure makes sense for august but not now

If anything, using your metaphor,, kids are the perfect lab rats as they've shown to be pretty unaffected by this virus.

the kelt

JTMan wrote: »

Sunday Times reports here: (paywall)
- Construction workers are to work different shifts to ensure social distancing, and wear full face shields and gloves where close contact cannot be avoided, in a bid to get 150,000 builders back to work on May 5.
- Schools are to be asked to provide an “on call” system to handle Leaving Cert pupils’ queries and concerns from mid-June to mid-July, before reopening classrooms a fortnight before their exams.
- Second-level teachers will take “holiday time” for six weeks from the beginning of June, but will be available where needed to help Leaving Cert students by phone for the last four weeks of that period.

Sunday Independent reports here: (paywall)
- HEALTH Minister Simon Harris has signalled schools could be reopened one day a week before the end of term this summer.
- Other plans include allowing people to exercise further than 2km from their homes and letting the over-70s, who are currently ‘cocooning’ at home, go for a walk.
- Pubs are unlikely to reopen to maximum capacity, “packed” with people, until there is an effective vaccine or treatment for the disease

It might be possible now that some decent debate might be had on what is a good thread hopefully looking over the last few pages.

I could be wrong but my memory is that the Independent seems to be the publication of choice when it comes to kite flying by the government in this pandemic and seems to have been previously more accurate (open to correction on that)

I’m not sure I see the logic though in kids going back one day a week or is this just maybe leaving cert classes? My wife is a primary school teacher and whilst there’s nothing official the general consensus is primary won’t be back until September or maybe a little earlier in August.

lord quackinton

kalkat2002 wrote: »

I have two kids and when they dont understand something we,the parents, are here to explain it to them and make it easy
Maybe you are the one struggling badly with this...that's another issue
Weirdo knows best

we are here to explain it to them and make it easy -
written like a childless student D grade for you

pjohnson

kalkat2002 wrote: »

I have two kids and when they dont understand something we,the parents, are here to explain it to them and make it easy
Maybe you are the one struggling badly with this...that's another issue
Weirdo knows best

Its probably the first time some folks have spent any time with their own children since they couldnt just leave them in creche/school while they enjoyed their life and someone else reared the child.

JRant

the kelt wrote: »

It might be possible now that some decent debate might be had on what is a good thread hopefully looking over the last few pages.

I could be wrong but my memory is that the Independent seems to be the publication of choice when it comes to kite flying by the government in this pandemic and seems to have been previously more accurate (open to correction on that)

I’m not sure I see the logic though in kids going back one day a week or is this just maybe leaving cert classes? My wife is a primary school teacher and whilst there’s nothing official the general consensus is primary won’t be back until September or maybe a little earlier in August.

I would imagine the logic is to start getting them back to some level of normality. Children love to play and interact with other children. I know my 5 year old is doing well at home but she still asks regularly when she can see her friends in school. The younger children actually love going and is something that would be a great benefit to them, even if it was one day a week.

kalkat2002

timmy_mallet wrote: »

If anything, using your metaphor,, kids are the perfect lab rats as they've shown to be pretty unaffected by this virus.

But they are vectors
Will you justify any grandparent or even kids death ?

pjohnson

lord quackinton wrote: »

we are here to explain it to them and make it easy -
written like a childless student D grade for you

Yup as predicted. Lord QuackyDoodle wants nothing to do with children.

kalkat2002

lord quackinton wrote: »

we are here to explain it to them and make it easy -
written like a childless student D grade for you

If you understood it you are not higher
Sorry if previous hurted you..very sensitive

pjohnson

kalkat2002 wrote: »

But they are vectors
Will you justify any grandparent or even kids death ?

The "open up" crowd would willingly sacrifice their own parent if it meant they could start making money.

kalkat2002

timmy_mallet wrote: »

What's the difference between now and August?

Now we are on the early stage of all this
Maybe in a few months test kits are more available to check any measure impact

facehugger99

I see the troll has emerged from his fear-cave.

timmy_mallet

kalkat2002 wrote: »

But they are vectors
Will you justify any grandparent or even kids death ?

Why would the be seeing their grandparent? Are you not following the rules?

easypazz

the kelt wrote: »

It might be possible now that some decent debate might be had.

No chance. They will be in every 5 minutes saying no pubs until 2021.

No schools until November

And that there are loads of jobs out there for anybody that wants one.

And that we can all order kegs for home so we can have draft beer.

And that it doesn't matter if we live in poverty forever more.

pjohnson

facehugger99 wrote: »

I see the troll has emerged from his fear-cave.

You were never banned from this thread huggy.

lord quackinton

pjohnson wrote: »

The "open up" crowd would willingly sacrifice their own parent if it meant they could start making money.

look i know you had next few months planned out, working for public sector at home lollygagging and getting paid in full
the dream is over - time to go back to work and reality.
write your memoirs/novel in your own time

timmy_mallet

kalkat2002 wrote: »

Now we are on the early stage of all this
Maybe in a few months test kits are more available to check any measure impact

Just keep your kids out till August, solved. Or whenever you feel comfortable.

JRant

pjohnson wrote: »

Its probably the first time some folks have spent any time with their own children since they couldnt just leave them in creche/school while they enjoyed their life and someone else reared the child.

Has it occurred to you that maybe the children don't want to be with their parents 24/7 either?

They need to spend time with peers, almost like regular human beings.

Maybe for some parents this is a wake up call to spend more time with their children. Maybe an awful lot of parents already do that anyway.

Must be fantastic to live is such a black and white world while making blanket statements about something you have absolutely no insight into.

pjohnson

lord quackinton wrote: »

look i know you had next few months planned out, working for public sector at home lollygagging and getting paid in full
the dream is over - time to go back to work and reality.
write your memoirs/novel in your own time

Well you seem to be writing your own fan fiction. So I now work in the public sector and write a novel. Any other cool stories quackquack?