Relaxation of restrictions

khalessi wrote: »

When you understand about what asymptomatic spread is, come back to me.

Who have these kids spread it to? Are they asymptomatic as well? If any parent shows symptoms then you can let the rest of the class parents know and get them to isolate and revert to working from home or take forced sick leave.

If you want the world to continue functioning then you need to come up with solutions, not cower in a corner until it's all over complaining that it's too difficult.

khalessi wrote: »

When you understand about what asymptomatic spread is, come back to me.

Adults are just as capable of asymptomatic and pre symptomatic spread . Look at the care homes right now

khalessi wrote: »

Well the parents want the schools open as they want to go back to work so who minds them when not in school?

I presume that is up to each parent ?

robinph wrote: »

Sure it is.

One of the kids will have got it from a parent in the first place, they know which kids are in the same class, trace that through to the rest of the parents of that class.

If individual schools or classes need to be shut down for a couple of weeks at a time then that's what happens, if that needs to be extended to forced working from home or "sick leave" due to one of the other kids parents in your kids class being diagnosed then that's what needs to happen. It's probably the only way that anything happens for the next couple of years without things just staying as they are at the moment.

It's extreme and will be complicated to administer, but what is the alternative?

When you understand about what asymptomatic spread is, come back to me.

alwald wrote: »

Those kids being asymptomatic will spread it to those same adults you mention taking public transport and hanging in pubs which will make tracing literally impossible.

Only if the parents that they spread it to are also by some fluke also all asymptomatic. If a parent gets ill you can send a notification out to all the other parents of their kids class to isolate.

The kids and their parents are an easily identifiable chain of people. The moment one of the parents gets on the bus to work it becomes impossible to trace.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Staggered starting times , half the class in one day , half another . Outdoors classes when possible , hand sanitizer every hour
Parents asked to teach hygiene and teachers showing a video every morning
It takes Organization and time but it’s not impossible .

Well the parents want the schools open as they want to go back to work so who minds them when not in school?

khalessi wrote: »

One of the issues with kids is that if they get it, they are asymptomatic so they could have passed it on, get over it and get on with life meanwhile having spread it to a number of other chldren the majority of which will be asymptomatic and so on. Hence tracing not so easy

Sure it is.

One of the kids will have got it from a parent in the first place, they know which kids are in the same class, trace that through to the rest of the parents of that class.

If individual schools or classes need to be shut down for a couple of weeks at a time then that's what happens, if that needs to be extended to forced working from home or "sick leave" due to one of the other kids parents in your kids class being diagnosed then that's what needs to happen. It's probably the only way that anything happens for the next couple of years without things just staying as they are at the moment.

It's extreme and will be complicated to administer, but what is the alternative?

Cork Boy 53

skallywag wrote: »

Yeah, that's by far your bigger problem I'd say. Unless playing etc. was just banned and the kids had to sit at their seats during break time ...

Maybe breaks could be done away with altogether and just finish the schoolday earlier. But even at that there will still be the same issue with kids mixing before and after class times.

alwald

robinph wrote: »

Kids mixing with the same group of 30 other people each day, and in an environment where they can monitor their health relatively easily if they want to, and where those people are all generally from the same approximate location, is far less risky than an adult being crammed into public transport with a bunch of random people, then hanging out in an office, then in a pub with another bunch of random people or on some more public transport with a completely different set of random people.

One kid might pass it to another kid easily, but that is far easier to trace than who any adult has had contact with during their week.

Those kids being asymptomatic will spread it to those same adults you mention taking public transport and hanging in pubs which will make tracing literally impossible.

retro:electro

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Thanks I didn’t see that . I am not disputing the fact that kids can spread it just not convinced they are the deadly spreaders people are saying with no basis

Yeah I definitely agree with you

retro:electro wrote: »

They touched on this on Prime Time last night and its the reason Sweden have not closed primary schools or crèches yet. They had some immunologist on talking about it and apparently there is a theory that adults are more likely to infect children with this virus than the other way around.

Thanks I didn’t see that . I am not disputing the fact that kids can spread it just not convinced they are the deadly spreaders people are saying with no basis

skallywag

KiKi III wrote: »

Hard to see how you’d manage breaks though.

Yeah, that's by far your bigger problem I'd say. Unless playing etc. was just banned and the kids had to sit at their seats during break time ...

KiKi III wrote: »

Class time seems fairly easy to manage to me; separate desks and hand sanitizer every time you line up.

Hard to see how you’d manage breaks though.

Different times for different year groups. Doesn't eliminate mixing groups entirely, and anyway there will be kids from the same family in different years, but it reduces the number of kids out at any one time and anything like that enables better distancing from them all if there is less out at once.

KiKi III wrote: »

Class time seems fairly easy to manage to me; separate desks and hand sanitizer every time you line up.

Hard to see how you’d manage breaks though.

Staggered starting times , half the class in one day , half another . Outdoors classes when possible , hand sanitizer every hour
Parents asked to teach hygiene and teachers showing a video every morning
It takes Organization and time but it’s not impossible .

robinph wrote: »

Kids mixing with the same group of 30 other people each day, and in an environment where they can monitor their health relatively easily if they want to, and where those people are all generally from the same approximate location, is far less risky than an adult being crammed into public transport with a bunch of random people, then hanging out in an office, then in a pub with another bunch of random people or on some more public transport with a completely different set of random people.

One kid might pass it to another kid easily, but that is far easier to trace than who any adult has had contact with during their week.

One of the issues with kids is that if they get it, they are asymptomatic so they could have passed it on, get over it and get on with life meanwhile having spread it to a number of other chldren the majority of which will be asymptomatic and so on. Hence tracing not so easy

KiKi III

robinph wrote: »

Kids mixing with the same group of 30 other people each day, and in an environment where they can monitor their health relatively easily if they want to, and where those people are all generally from the same approximate location, is far less risky than an adult being crammed into public transport with a bunch of random people, then hanging out in an office, then in a pub with another bunch of random people or on some more public transport with a completely different set of random people.

One kid might pass it to another kid easily, but that is far easier to trace than who any adult has had contact with during their week.

Class time seems fairly easy to manage to me; separate desks and hand sanitizer every time you line up.

Hard to see how you’d manage breaks though.

retro:electro

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have met more children than you i bet . No need to be snarky . There is no research that children are in fact more likely to be infected or indeed spread it any more than adults
The spread in Ireland was mainly by care workers and adults who came back from abroad actually

They touched on this on Prime Time last night and its the reason Sweden have not closed primary schools or crèches yet. They had some immunologist on talking about it and apparently there is a theory that adults are more likely to infect children with this virus than the other way around.

Cyrus wrote: »

and even if they do spread it, is what they spread any deadlier than anyone elses?

That was my point too . Their spread is no more deadly than that of a carer in a care home .

Kids mixing with the same group of 30 other people each day, and in an environment where they can monitor their health relatively easily if they want to, and where those people are all generally from the same approximate location, is far less risky than an adult being crammed into public transport with a bunch of random people, then hanging out in an office, then in a pub with another bunch of random people or on some more public transport with a completely different set of random people.

One kid might pass it to another kid easily, but that is far easier to trace than who any adult has had contact with during their week.

Cyrus

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have met more children than you i bet . No need to be snarky . There is no research that children are in fact more likely to be infected or indeed spread it any more than adults
The spread in Ireland was mainly by care workers and adults who came back from abroad actually

and even if they do spread it, is what they spread any deadlier than anyone elses?

Tell me how wrote: »

No one is saying that. Each human is as likely to be a carrier as the next on the basis of physiology, but, adults generally should be better at practicing god hygiene and observing social distancing rules.

Yes I get that , small kids will definitely need more supervision and care before let loose on the community . But small kids in my opinion are probably more likely to spread it in the home as unlikely to be wandering freely among the population .

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I have met more children than you i bet . No need to be snarky . There is no research that children are in fact more likely to be infected or indeed spread it any more than adults
The spread in Ireland was mainly by care workers and adults who came back from abroad actually

This is because the schools were closed on Mrch 12th before it could get a good hold on our schools.

Ask any teacher about how children spread viruses. As I have said else where in the week of the school closure, a colleague had nearly half a class missing due to vomitting bug. Also ask about how easily spread headlice are in schools.

Children do not have the same boundaries as adults and the spread by care workers was down to them not knowing that Covid19 was in nursing homes until it was too late as some probably were doing agency or wroking between nursing homes and they also did not have access to proper PPE

[Deleted User]

iamwhoiam wrote: »

In my opinion the spread is just as likely to be by adults in crowds and over crowded pubs and clubs

They are all closed though, and will be for the foreseeable future. Well beyond May and June IMO.

Tell me how

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I am well aware but has anyone actually tested kids to see if they are carriers . I am not disputing it but not convinced they are the main carriers and spreaders. The spread is just as likely in warm , airless crowed pubs by adults

No one is saying that. Each human is as likely to be a carrier as the next on the basis of physiology, but, adults generally should be better at practicing god hygiene and observing social distancing rules.

lainey_d_123 wrote: »

I'm not being snarky, but how are they not more likely to spread it than adults when they're even less likely to take precautions, and even less likely to show symptoms themselves?

I don't know how you can say how the virus spread in Ireland when there has been little to no contact tracing and barely any testing. The fact is nobody knows, but it seems a pretty sure bet to think children could be a big factor.

In my opinion the spread is just as likely to be by adults in crowds and over crowded pubs and clubs