paddy19 wrote: » "Wearing of masks or some sort of covering for nose and mouth should be compulsory upon leaving the house.." Says who, what scientific evidence shows masks work outdoors.
New rules take time to become accepted practice.
What has been well established is that close proximity to an infected person for 15 minutes is high risk
paddy19 wrote: » I have no problem seeing the logic and evidence that choirs belting out songs in a confined space for hours can transmit the virus. It's one hell of a jump to everybody wearing masks everywhere as the Pat Kenny/Joe Duffy media pluggers are pushing.
Wibbs wrote: » I'm beginning to think a lot of the anti mask stuff is not just the "authorities say" thing, but a cultural resistance to the idea of masks themselves. A mate of mine was saying kinda similar in that he'd hate the idea of us all wearing masks. Just that on that point, even though he well knows the risk reduction aspect of it. Interestingly if you look at Asian old style keyboard emojis they try to imitate the eyes rather than the mouth, so instead of :-) they'll do something like this (^^). Mad notion, but maybe that slight cultural difference is why mask wearing that covers the mouth is less of an issue for them, whereas we feel uncomfortable if we can't see each other's mouths?
paddy19 wrote: » Due respects to the good professor but I have seen jilch evidence that masks work outdoors. What has been well established is that close proximity to an infected person for 15 minutes is high risk. I can see the case where choirs singing for hours in a confined space should wear masks. But it's a mighty jump to everyone wearing masks everywhere. "large cities having compulsory masks in place were doing really well in the fight. " Post hoc ergo propter hoc, after this, therefore because of this. To ascribe the wearing of masks outdoors to doing "well in the fight" is stretching logic.
maninasia wrote: » Is it? 45 of the 60 came down with covid19. ''One member told CNN affiliate KIRO that no one seemed to be ill. "During the entire rehearsal, no one sneezed, no one coughed, no one there appeared to be sick in any way," Carolynn Comstock told KIRO. "So now we know, oh hm, maybe it's transmitted not just by droplets and sneezes or coughs; maybe it's transmitted just by people talking, just by people being around each other'' I can also provide you many cases where people acquired it talking to friends and colleagues in coffeeshops. Do you need the examples too? Here's one to get you started.https://focustaiwan.tw/society/202003300024 Basically 15 mins in proximity with somebody talking to you who is infected is high risk. But it could even happen in an elevator which is why many countries are enforcing masks in office buildings and not talking in the elevator.
paddy19 wrote: » It is not a reason to make everyone wear masks outdoors.
paddy19 wrote: » We cant start making major policy decisions based on what other countries might do. They disinfect the street in Dubai, should be doing that here? We need to stay with the proven science not anecdotes. It is already accepted that you are at risk if you are in close proximity for more than 15 minutes with someone who is infected. That's the reason people are told not to be congregating in groups of more than 4. It is not a reason to make everyone wear masks outdoors.
paddy19 wrote: » We cant start making major policy decisions based on what other countries might do. They disinfect the street in Dubai, should be doing that here? We need to stay with the proven science not anecdotes.
It is already accepted that you are at risk if you are in close proximity for more than 15 minutes with someone who is infected. That's the reason people are told not to be congregating in groups of more than 4. It is not a reason to make everyone wear masks outdoors.
Wibbs wrote: » Humans as social animals tend to follow the "herd" and whomever is leading it. If tomorrow authorities said wear masks, people would and would soon tut tut at those who didn't, even though they may once have been the types who tut tutted at people who wore one.
Wibbs wrote: » Ah bless "the 15 minute rule". Patient zero in Germany infected one guy by passing him a salt cellar, another by sharing a lift, another in a five minute meeting. What happens at this magical 15 minutes that doesn't happen at 12, or really goes nuts at 17? You buy the 15 minute thing, but think something actually covering your nose and mouth, the primary site of infection is of little use?
Wibbs wrote: » I'm beginning to think a lot of the anti mask stuff is not just the "authorities say" thing, but a cultural resistance to the idea of masks themselves. A mate of mine was saying kinda similar in that he'd hate the idea of us all wearing masks.
Kivaro wrote: » I would be happy to review reputable sources from you where it supports your contention that there is "jilch evidence that masks work outdoors".
saneman wrote: » Simon Harris was on Newstalk this morning and part of what was discussed was the use of masks. Prefaced by the fact he's not a doctor he said he: "..tends to agree that there is a growing body of international evidence in relation to some potential benefits... they may not be hugely protective.. there is also concern, i read in a number of documents, including from the ECDC, that they can sometimes provide a false sense of security, if I wear a facemask I no longer need to do this, that or the other,.. and the risk of that is real". He went on to say "today, the national emergency team is meeting and is going to look specifically at guidance around the issue of face masks" and he was continuing "i think the outcome you're likely to see..." but got caught up on another question from Pat regarding people coming in via airports. Ooh, the suspense...
iamwhoiam wrote: » I dont really understand the theory if you wear a mask you tend to forget other things .When I wear a mask going to my local shop the alien thing on my face makes me very aware of the crises we are in .It tends to focus me on being very careful and alert
railer201 wrote: » The 2 metre advisory must only relate to still air - in real life, especially outdoors, the air/wind can swirl every which way and at speed too. Professor Luke O'Neill mentioned yesterday morning on the Pat Kenny Show, Newstalk, that in a stadium with everyone jammed together, shouting their heads off, thereby emitting masses of aerosols - that these same aerosols could be easily carried all round the stadium by the wind and so spread the virus to multiple other people. Similarly as a cyclist (grounded and cocooned atm), I was very conscious of passing through other cyclists exhaled breath, but everyone was quoting this 2 metre rule. Ok, I was cycling at least two metres behind other cyclists, but if they sneezed or were just breathing normally then I would be inhaling that a fraction of a second later. This is a further reason to mask up outdoors, but still respect the social distancing guideline of 2 metres, though realising the limitations of it at the same time.
Hoffmans wrote: » Everyone should wear one out in supermarkets etc if not to protect themselves but others, mounting evidence CV travels up to 23 feet in the air and can stay airborne for up to 30 minutes
thebaz wrote: » Do you not think Chinese numbers, regardless of review, look suspiciously low, less than Belgium - just a bit above New Jersey - and these are not worst hit regions worldwide China poplulation 1.4 Billiion Belgium population 11.5 Million New Jersey population 8.5
McGiver wrote: » Anywhere in public is what Czechia, Slovakia and Austria did. It's a bit extreme, but it's good. I would be OK with Irish gov recommending/mandating masks in closed spaces - shops, stores, public transport etc as a minimum.
McGiver wrote: » ECDC are ambiguous on the issue. Kind of a lukewarm recommendation. WHO is a different story.
